The Pete Plan etc

A forum for discussing training programmes, indoor racing, things that work for you, coaching etc.

Moderator: The forum police - (nee naw)

User avatar
Ian Bee
Dedicated and True Free Spirit
Posts: 1046
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:27 am
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Wilts., UK

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by Ian Bee »

W7S2 of the 10k plan - hopefully the ladder description is legible but basically an hour of lightish, varying pace/SPM.
The running theme of missing SPM targets continues, but given there's no rest in the main hour I'm not too concerned.

Bit of an improvement from last time through, but definitely felt the hangover from yesterday's efforts in the legs....

Image

Sent from my CPH2173 using Tapatalk

User avatar
JonT
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Posts: 1485
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:31 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Bath, Somerset, UK

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by JonT »

Steady state for me yesterday. 3x15mins aiming to stay out of the ErgZone amber HR zone which 80%HR max as far as I can see. I’m hopeless at avoiding the seduction of pace over HR, so these zone graphics help me a lot.

Image


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
55 years old, 5"10', clinging on to 75kg and frustratingly but understandably inconsistent
Image
User avatar
spidermac
True Free Spirit
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:31 pm

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by spidermac »

Solid work Mr Bee. JonT similar work for me 45mins done as a countdown 9,8......1. I find this helps keep the HD`s away.
Unfortunately thermometer showing 28 degrees & very humid as shown in my starting HR 20 beats higher :shock: than last time so decided I would stick to pace rather than HR.
Wup - 1k
Time spm HR split
09:00.0 20 135 02:15.5
08:00.0 20 139 02:15.4
07:00.0 20 143 02:15.4
06:00.0 20 146 02:15.4
05:00.0 20 147 02:15.3
04:00.0 20 148 02:15.4
03:00.0 20 149 02:15.5
02:00.0 20 150 02:15.4
01:00.0 20 150 02:15.1
45:00.0 9961 20 02:15.5
CD - 1k
Very sweaty, happy to get it done. May try a 8x500 as next wout to see where i am!!! :shock:
Born 1957 71kg;6`2"
Image
User avatar
JonT
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Posts: 1485
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:31 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Bath, Somerset, UK

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by JonT »

RowAlong 10k session today. 40 mins with pace and/or rating increases every 4 mins. Start at 2k+25. I really enjoyed this and was pleased to hit the targets.

Image


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
55 years old, 5"10', clinging on to 75kg and frustratingly but understandably inconsistent
Image
User avatar
Ian Bee
Dedicated and True Free Spirit
Posts: 1046
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:27 am
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Wilts., UK

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by Ian Bee »

Due for that session tomorrow....

Today however was W7S3, 1m/1r, 20spm.....

Rather challenging to hold max pace at, for me at least, rather low rate. A little faster than last time through (couple of tenths), and aside from the last rep was quite consistent.



Sent from my CPH2173 using Tapatalk


Image
User avatar
Ian Bee
Dedicated and True Free Spirit
Posts: 1046
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:27 am
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Wilts., UK

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by Ian Bee »

W7S4
W7S4
ReactNative-snapshot-image529431452249085902.jpg (82 KiB) Viewed 575 times
W7S4 - meant to be a 30 negative split with 3 minute splits.

Pacing rapidly got away from me and I couldn't get anywhere near 2.01 at 18spm for more than a few strokes, so I satisfied myself with a "leisurely" finish.

It did give me a chance to focus on my lack of back swing (on which revelation I managed to hold 2.03. Just).
User avatar
spidermac
True Free Spirit
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:31 pm

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by spidermac »

Nice splits at those spm`s guys. Just a 30minR20 easy one for me today - pretty hot again - roll on the winter!
wup - 1k
Time Dist spm HR split
06:00.0 1326 20 130 02:15.7
06:00.0 1324 20 133 02:15.8
06:00.0 1324 20 136 02:15.8
06:00.0 1323 20 140 02:15.9
06:00.0 1324 20 139 02:15.8
30:00.0 6622 20 135 02:15.9
CD - 1k
More or less same splits/HR as last time but felt easier. Have ordered a new log card so should be easier to post wout breakdowns.
Born 1957 71kg;6`2"
Image
User avatar
JonT
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Posts: 1485
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:31 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Bath, Somerset, UK

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by JonT »

What a busy thread this has become. Nice 30min on the bike at steady state today.
55 years old, 5"10', clinging on to 75kg and frustratingly but understandably inconsistent
Image
obirobsan
Spends too much time in the forum
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed May 04, 2022 10:28 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by obirobsan »

I'll have to read about the Pete Plan someday. I'm mostly just doing my steady state biz (20-30 minutes in a single long session), although I've heard enough of the benefits of rowing slower SPM that I periodically try to do that. I've found the huge falloff from 25-ish SPM (where I can do 1:50ish pace for a while) to 22-ish SPM (where at my very BEST I might get a 2:09 pace) somewhat disheartening. I think this means I have really quite poor form, or just lack some brute power (because I think lower SPM means the flywheel can decelerate more and you spend more force reaccelerating it). I fear I may just need to go somewhere that has a lot of pros that can endlessly tell me how to correct things, maybe RowHouse. I've been saving the interval training for CTC.. haha. Though, when I was treadmilling a lot, that was one of my standbys.
Image
User avatar
Ian Bee
Dedicated and True Free Spirit
Posts: 1046
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:27 am
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Wilts., UK

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by Ian Bee »

obirobsan wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:22 am I'll have to read about the Pete Plan someday.[snip]

I fear I may just need to go somewhere that has a lot of pros that can endlessly tell me how to correct things, maybe RowHouse.
I got a lot out of a series of rowing plans - Fletcher is definitely a longer term benefit (but needs a larger investment of time per session as it's marathon focused), Pete is good for 5k and you can definitely see improvement over cycles through, while Rowalong has the benefit of John Steventon being online and doing form analysis. I fondly remember fellow free spirits dissecting my form in Manchester a few years ago when I suddenly developed a tick in my arms when they passed over my knees. Never happened before or since....

Anyway, W7S5 of the 10k plan. A lesson in read the rubric: it wasn't full pace, but neither was it easy. After the first rep the HD demons were definitely on my shoulders, telling me that a run at the CTC would be sooooo much nicer.

Small improvement from last time, just a shame my HR monitor went silly.


W7s5
W7s5
ReactNative-snapshot-image1976224297810397968.jpg (57.23 KiB) Viewed 543 times
User avatar
JonT
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Posts: 1485
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:31 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Bath, Somerset, UK

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by JonT »

obirobsan wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:22 am I'll have to read about the Pete Plan someday. I'm mostly just doing my steady state biz (20-30 minutes in a single long session), although I've heard enough of the benefits of rowing slower SPM that I periodically try to do that. I've found the huge falloff from 25-ish SPM (where I can do 1:50ish pace for a while) to 22-ish SPM (where at my very BEST I might get a 2:09 pace) somewhat disheartening. I think this means I have really quite poor form, or just lack some brute power (because I think lower SPM means the flywheel can decelerate more and you spend more force reaccelerating it). I fear I may just need to go somewhere that has a lot of pros that can endlessly tell me how to correct things, maybe RowHouse. I've been saving the interval training for CTC.. haha. Though, when I was treadmilling a lot, that was one of my standbys.
Rob, it took me ages to learn to switch down and row at 18-20 spm, now I spend most of my time there. It does take some time to adapt to. Having said that, that is quite a big drop off in speed. A good rule of thumb is if you are putting in around the same effort per stroke then a change of 2spm will give you a change of around of 2s in your /500m pace. You are clearly very strong, looking at your times, so I suspect there is something going on here with technique.

Before you jump into something like Row House I really would dive into the RowAlong technique videos. John is very good and they are all free.

By the way, what drag factor are you using? Sorry if I have asked you that before.
55 years old, 5"10', clinging on to 75kg and frustratingly but understandably inconsistent
Image
User avatar
JonT
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Posts: 1485
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:31 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Bath, Somerset, UK

The Pete Plan etc

Post by JonT »

The dreaded 2k test for me today. I was actually feeling quite positive about this one - usually I dread it for days in advance. Recent RowAlong sessions pointed me to 1:55 pace as a reasonable target. My days of rowing so hard I am sick or fall of the rower at the end are long gone, so I was prepared to back off if necessary. The plan was my usual 1/2, 3/4 and then 8 power strokes to start. Hit 1:55 within 200m and then stay there at 30-32spm until the last 500m. Pick up the rating at 500m to go and then push really hard for the last 250m. Pretty classic approach. This was all top-and-tailed with a 15min warm up with various drills and periods at target pace and rating, followed by a 2k warm down.

Pleased with the result and the Nonathlon haul that comes with it. Ideally I would like to be 75th percentile across all distances (except FM) for lightweight men by the end of the season. My time just sneaked my in there. I suspect I could have gone slightly harder, but I really have no appetite for feeling ill for hours afterwards at the moment.

Image
55 years old, 5"10', clinging on to 75kg and frustratingly but understandably inconsistent
Image
User avatar
spidermac
True Free Spirit
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:31 pm

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by spidermac »

Hi obirobsan - you get good at what you practice so if you rarely practice low spm it will feel very hard, same for hi spm >30. Don`t know your age/weight but a 20sec drop off for 3-4spm less indicates something going wrong, I would drop 3-4secs for this change in spm.You could post a video here or on concept2 UK forum - to get some feedback on technique. The Pete plan is really a sharpening plan I don`t know anyone who has stuck it long term as eventually you plateau/burn out. As well as JonTs suggestions check out Eric murrays posts on you tube ( his own and the ones he does foe Asensei) he does a lot of wouts around 20-22spm.
HD on R4 of a 8x500m today as usual went out too fast. Wedding tommorow so probably do something on Sunday to burn off some beer!! :lol:
Well done JonT on the 2K - the anticipation of the pain is a big part of the test - pacing looks pretty good.
Born 1957 71kg;6`2"
Image
obirobsan
Spends too much time in the forum
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed May 04, 2022 10:28 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by obirobsan »

I use the "5" setting pretty religiously so I don't hurt myself on higher settings, which equates to around a 110ish drag. My self-generated philosophy in rowing was that everything should be fluid and basically at the same speed - so no lingering at either side, and drive and recovery at the same speed. Using this system, I have a lot of drop off in speed -- this morning I managed to get 30 minutes at 20 spm, average pace was 2:41.7. I've found there are ways I can get faster by deviating from my "system" -- one I call "fast hands" is normal speed everywhere except hard snaps in the last 25% of the drive and the first 25% of the recovery, the other I call "the staggering drunk man" where I pull a 30+ spm drive and then pause for a while and then slowly recover, and pause for a while at the catch, so that it averages out to a 20 spm stroke. Both those don't seem right, though they'll let me get much faster paces at the lower SPM.
Image
User avatar
JonT
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Posts: 1485
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:31 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Bath, Somerset, UK

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by JonT »

obirobsan wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:26 pm I use the "5" setting pretty religiously so I don't hurt myself on higher settings, which equates to around a 110ish drag. My self-generated philosophy in rowing was that everything should be fluid and basically at the same speed - so no lingering at either side, and drive and recovery at the same speed. Using this system, I have a lot of drop off in speed -- this morning I managed to get 30 minutes at 20 spm, average pace was 2:41.7. I've found there are ways I can get faster by deviating from my "system" -- one I call "fast hands" is normal speed everywhere except hard snaps in the last 25% of the drive and the first 25% of the recovery, the other I call "the staggering drunk man" where I pull a 30+ spm drive and then pause for a while and then slowly recover, and pause for a while at the catch, so that it averages out to a 20 spm stroke. Both those don't seem right, though they'll let me get much faster paces at the lower SPM.
I've just been in touch with John Steventon and he recommends the following session for a good overview of technique -> https://youtu.be/qpkD1EKLOsg

See what you think.
55 years old, 5"10', clinging on to 75kg and frustratingly but understandably inconsistent
Image
obirobsan
Spends too much time in the forum
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed May 04, 2022 10:28 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by obirobsan »

Thanks, Jon, I'll check it out!
Image
User avatar
spidermac
True Free Spirit
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:31 pm

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by spidermac »

Good wedding yesterday time to pay the piper!!! :lol: Decided on a 60minR20 done as a countdown. Wanted to target my 30minR20 pace above & let HR drift up a bit, more concerned with doing 60mins.
Wup - 1k
Time Dist spm HR split
12:00.0 2647 20 134 02:16.0
11:00.0 2429 20 139 02:15.8
10:00.0 2208 20 144 02:15.8
09:00.0 1987 20 145 02:15.8
08:00.0 1767 20 146 02:15.8
06:00.0 1325 20 148 02:15.8
04:00.0 883 20 150 02:15.8
01:00.0 13244 20 142 02:15.9
CD - 1k
Got a beery sweat on as desired. Happy to do 60mins tho a bit of a grey zone wout. HR pretty steady after first 20mins only climbed 6 beats per min in last 38mins. :D
Born 1957 71kg;6`2"
Image
User avatar
JonT
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Posts: 1485
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:31 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Bath, Somerset, UK

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by JonT »

obirobsan wrote:Thanks, Jon, I'll check it out!
I did this today Rob just to check it out. If you are watching it for technique tips then I would actually watch it without rowing. There are some good tips in here but it is very difficult to fully understand and follow it while rowing. Then watch it again while rowing.

Ignore the pace recommendations. Given the numbers you have provided, you are not going to hit the proposed pace.

Enjoy watching John rowing while trying to get sun cream out of his eyes Image

Meanwhile, here is my session. Annoyed to have missed target pace by 0.1 on a few intervals.

Image


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
55 years old, 5"10', clinging on to 75kg and frustratingly but understandably inconsistent
Image
User avatar
Ian Bee
Dedicated and True Free Spirit
Posts: 1046
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:27 am
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Wilts., UK

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by Ian Bee »

W2S1 of the 2k plan, and a nice gentle introduction to the week. A smidge faster than last time through, and no pesky SPM worries...

Image

Sent from my CPH2173 using Tapatalk

User avatar
Ian Bee
Dedicated and True Free Spirit
Posts: 1046
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:27 am
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Wilts., UK

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by Ian Bee »

Accountability post:

Did I not hydrate, was it poor sleep, was it too hot...... ?

Whatever the case, HD demons bit and I couldn't shake them off. I'm ok with that, but will fling salt over both shoulders before tomorrow morning's row.

Image

Sent from my CPH2173 using Tapatalk

User avatar
spidermac
True Free Spirit
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:31 pm

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by spidermac »

Bad luck Ian HD`s are part of the game unfortunately!! :evil: I find it very difficult to do hard intervals in the heat. Kudos for posting!
After some weights this am did a 30minR20. 26degrees in Edinburgh so decided to fit my C-breeze. Have left it off as it seems to mess with the drag. Anyway results below.
Wup - 1k
Time Dist spm HR split
06:00.0 1326 20 128 02:15.7
06:00.0 1325 20 130 02:15.8
06:00.0 1325 20 133 02:15.8
06:00.0 1326 20 135 02:15.7
06:00.0 1326 20 135 02:15.7
30:00.0 6625 20 132 02:15.8
CD - 1k
Well whatdya know the C-breeze helped Doh!!! :shock: HR down despite the heat & this felt nice & relaxed. :D Not looking forward to the next few days of heat.
Born 1957 71kg;6`2"
Image
User avatar
JonT
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Posts: 1485
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:31 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Bath, Somerset, UK

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by JonT »

Sorry to hear about the HD Ian. The next one will be better. Good to se you are keeping cooler Spider.

Today I demonstrated how not to do a RowAlong mid-tier session. To start with I messed up the warm up and got completely out of sync with the video so had to start again. Then I programmed the wrong 2K pace and put a target pace for the 1min intervals which was too fast. No wonder I found it a lot tougher than mid-tier.

3x15 split 5/4/3/2/1min with a rating increase of 2 at the end of each time period and a pace increase of 3 seconds. I hit all the targets except the rating in the last 1 min where I just had to throw everything at it to hit or exceed the pace.

I was melting by the end of this one.

Image


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
55 years old, 5"10', clinging on to 75kg and frustratingly but understandably inconsistent
Image
User avatar
Ian Bee
Dedicated and True Free Spirit
Posts: 1046
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:27 am
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Wilts., UK

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by Ian Bee »

Share your thoughts on melting Jon.

W2S4 of the 2k plan, and I deliberately (honest) held back on the 4 minute rep as it just wasn't going to happen - last time through in much cooler conditions I bailed completely and slowed to 2.08 pace so *relatively speaking* I'm judging this a qualified success. Perhaps look to 2k+8 next time through.....

Image

Sent from my CPH2173 using Tapatalk

User avatar
JonT
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Posts: 1485
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:31 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Bath, Somerset, UK

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by JonT »

Hard weights session yesterday - the first for a few weeks. Focus was on hamstrings, lats and glutes which left me with major DOMS today, so a gentle 30min in the bike was called for.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
55 years old, 5"10', clinging on to 75kg and frustratingly but understandably inconsistent
Image
obirobsan
Spends too much time in the forum
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed May 04, 2022 10:28 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by obirobsan »

Here’s the effect of incremental faster spm - well some is probably the effect of getting into the rhythm but thought it was interesting since I didn’t particularly try to go faster and just had this perfect one stroke faster each split…

Starting at a 3:00 pace, I was trying to row in the sub 25 spm and gave up over the row. Ha.

Edit: Tapatalk image is SO big. I think I'll have to practice more on images there... ooopsie.

Image

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Image
Post Reply