what training have free spirits been doing today?

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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by spidermac »

Great result Ian & well deserved after all the mileage u have done! =D> =D>
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by PSims »

Nice FM Ian.
Setting out your stall early!
So a FM every day for the first 2 weeks?!

Well done!

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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Mat »

Some great training on here over the last few days :D

Really solid training Spider =D> and a couple of great PBS Ian at (almost) opposite ends of the scale ^O^ ^O^

Mixed bag for me over the weekend, but picked back up on the 30’ sessions yesterday with a 18/20/22/18/20/22 rated piece followed by today’s gradually build :shock:

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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Ian Bee »

PSims wrote:Nice FM Ian.
Setting out your stall early!
So a FM every day for the first 2 weeks?!

Well done!

P.
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Thanks Mat - good/hideous looking session from you as ever ImageImage

Back to a 500m week for me:
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I can't say yesterday put me in an optimum place for this, but a nibble of an improvement is a good result. Nasty targets though ImageImage

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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Mat »

From an FM to a sprint session Ian! :shock: We’ll executed session =D>

Another 30’ today, this time at R18 with 5 power stokes at the end of each 5’ split
Easy-ish but feeling deceptively hard by the end

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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Claudius »

Bravo to all your training, boys and girls ;-) ! Congrats Ian to a terrefic FM with pb I guess ! I see the powerstrokes Mat !
On 30th april a quite wonderful cx ride, also a little bit exhausting, because some segment play was involved. Some unspecific rows the other days. Today a HM with the Kickstart Workout from Zwift.
Thats my short summary. I will go in detail with this kickstart session in my zwift post.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Ian Bee »

Mat - can relate to the R18/power stroke fatigue... :cry:
Claudius - nice HM and split variations ^O^
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I have a mental block with going full pace for the length of this session. 20s feels like an eternity by the last rep, and fluffing the starts of a 20s rep plays havoc with the pace.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by spidermac »

Powerful stuff Mat. =D>
Ian - looks more my sort of wout!! & yes missing the fir :D st stroke makes a massive difference.
So got food poisoning on tues which triggered a very painful arthritis attack so no training for a few days but thankfully it was short lived.
New one for me from EM - 4x10min R30s with each 10min done as a pyramid changing spm every 2min - should be 20/22/24/22/20spm.
Wup - 1k
Time dist spm HR split
02:00.0 454 20 130 02:12.1
02:00.0 469 23 137 02:07.9
02:00.0 481 25 144 02:04.7
02:00.0 469 23 144 02:07.9
02:00.0 455 20 143 02:11.8

02:00.0 457 20 142 02:11.2
02:00.0 471 22 148 02:07.3
02:00.0 481 24 151 02:04.7
02:00.0 473 23 151 02:06.8
02:00.0 458 20 147 02:11.0

02:00.0 457 20 146 02:11.2
02:00.0 473 23 153 02:06.8
02:00.0 483 25 155 02:04.2
02:00.0 474 22 154 02:06.5
02:00.0 461 20 149 02:10.1

02:00.0 462 21 150 02:09.8
02:00.0 475 22 154 02:06.3
02:00.0 485 24 156 02:03.7
02:00.0 476 22 155 02:06.0
02:00.0 465 20 149 02:09.0
40:00.0 9373 21 147 02:08.0
CD - 1k
Managed to -ve split each corresponding segment but missed a few of the spm targets - quite tricky as 1 extra stroke throws out the total!!! :twisted:
Got surprisingly hard from about 20mins in :shock: tho maybe still not fully recovered - 30s rest is not a lot!!!
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Mat »

Great sessions all =D>
Brave work incorporating intervals into a HM Claudius ^O^
Ian - huge improvement on that nasty 20" session ^O^
Spider - that's a cracking session given your recent health problems, and throwing in food poisoning for good measure :shock: ^O^

Yesterday was a bit of a s**t show with poor pacing on my 30' session - working too hard in the middle 6' section so I knew I wouldn't make it down the other side of the pyramid ](*,) Decided to end the 30' early, and then did a Deadlift session the jumpedo n the Wattbike for a 20' cooldown on Zwift

So, this morning still didn't fancy 30' so I had an early attempt at the CTC - results over there :fsbgrin:
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by JonT »

I'd appreciate views on this. I started the RowAlongImage
"Row for Fitness" sessions today. I have always had an 'interesting' time rowing at low intensity i.e. I have been rubbish at it but have just ignored the fact. But I am a bit mystified. The first session calls for 2x15min at UT2. As ever, I was completely unable to stay at UT2 even though I was rowing at RPE of 3 and at a pace that was 2K+28! You can see from the image that I didn't manage to keep the HR in the 60-70% zone despite this. My HR max is 188. I was rowing strapless, but I know that makes no difference to me given how often I row this way.

I have always been very, very comfortable at HR of 166 which is 88% of HR Max. I can sit here all day long (sort of!) and would say it was RPE of 5-6.

So, what is going on? Am I just really unfit? I would hope not with 3-4 sessions a week and 7 million lifetime meters under my belt. Is it a strange metabolism? RowAlong - Indoor Rowing Classes and Videos John Steventon knows my form is pretty good, so I doubt it is that.

I'm puzzled and it leaves me wondering how to row this kind of session.

Thoughts?


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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Ian Bee »

Hi Jon,

I've never found the heart zone boundary training suits me at all. As a side point, I *think* if you add your resting heart rate, ergzone recalculates your % rates which might give you more room to push (or at least not feel penned back). If it adds to the logic, Keith Derby (who I think qualifies as a bit nifty on an erg) sits at 170 BPM for a full HM and happily defines this as aerobic.

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At least it's not sprinting!

Hectic session for.you Spider - nicely done.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by spidermac »

Hi JonT I have been wondering/reading about this as well. Think a UT2 session has to be 60mins/+. Also other Iain is of the opinion that unless you are doing lots of rowing - 6 or more sessions a week they are not neccesary/ I agree with this as I think the thinking behind it is you can get the mileage in but can recover from this & still be fresh enuff to give the hard sessions a good go. If only doing 3/4 sessions a week as a regular rower I am sceptical of the benefit & could just get u used to rowing slow!!!Iain also points out that there are difering views on what the limits are for UT1/2 - some say 70%max HR;some say 80% some base it on HRreserve+RHR & of course there is individual variables. The pete plan prescribes only UT1 sessions no UT2 for instance. Another consideration is that I often do 4-5k in warmupp/cooldown at pretty slow pace - 2.26 which is probably UT2 pace every wout. As none of us on here are olympic athletes or spring chickens find what works for u & what u enjoy!,
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Mat »

Jon - I’m not really sure what I can offer other than my own experience

When I rowed previously, I had a max HR of high 180’s, very similar to yourself

I couldn’t (and wouldn’t) do low rate sessions. I just did the prescribed pace at my usual rate (26ish).

I always did UT2 as a sub 140bpm session, which is pretty close to where you are (using my late night, post red wine maths)

That got me to sub 6:20 for a 2k

So, you’re looking pretty good on that basis and nothing to worry about

Going forward…

Having come back to rowing I value the low rate stuff: you’re developing power per stroke and so when increasing pace you’re just upping that rate rather than having to work harder on each stroke

But, I’m older, and since developing hypothyroidism I find it difficult to manage intense interval stuff (okay, it may be psychological but it came on before I was diagnosed)

So.. don’t worry. You’re not unfit, and we’re all different. You do you - follow the programme and reap the benefits :fsbgrin:
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Mat »

This one kept me concentrating :-k

3 rolling sets of 4/3/2/1 min at 18/20/22/24

Nice though - the R24 gave a chance to work hard and faster before dropping back to R18 again

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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by spidermac »

Nice one Mat - the changing rates defo gives u something else to think about rather than how long/far u still have to row!! :D
JonT one final thought on HR - Travis`s take is that u should be guided by pace rather than HR on these sessions as he says external factors can have a big effect, e,g, coming off a bad nites sleep in 30 degrees your HR will be very different than a good nites sleep after a rest day at the same split!!
So a longer session for me today - 10x1500 R60s trying to -ve split & rate cap of 24spm.
wup - 1k

06:27.2 1500 24 142 02:09.0
06:26.0 1500 23 144 02:08.6
06:24.8 1500 23 146 02:08.2
06:23.5 1500 24 148 02:07.8
06:22.3 1500 23 153 02:07.4
06:20.8 1500 23 155 02:06.9
06:19.3 1500 24 156 02:06.4
06:17.6 1500 24 157 02:05.8
06:15.9 1500 24 156 02:05.3
06:11.6 1500 24 159 02:03.8
01:03:29 15000 23 151 02:06.9
CD - 1k
Sweaty session. Saw HR briefly in the 160`s so maybe gettin rid of the last of the pneumonia gunk from my lungs. Good session & happy with the pacing.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by JonT »

Thanks for all of the thoughts on my post. I am going to stick with the programme and see what happens if I force myself to plod sub 70% HR. In the programme, today calls for a high-intensity session. Instead of doing the prescribed session I think I'll have a crack at the CTC which I'm sure will fit the "intense" bill.

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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Ian Bee »

My eyes widened at that sessions description Spider 🫣 - nicely done!

Fingers crossed for the CTC Jon 👍
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Couldn't hold to my new 2k targets, but did improve over last time through. Quite a tough sessions to start the week with.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Iain »

Tough session Ian, well done on getting through with a strong improvement. I know I couldn't approach those targets (if I used my estimated 2k, as I haven't done a proper 2k since I restarted, I might make targets based on "best 2k so far+"). STrange how your HR responds slower this time around. Does anyone know why this might be as I would have expected that a more rapid response would be beneficial.

Spider, having been subjected to my musings on PP thread for far too long, you expressed my thoughts better than I could to Jon above! But 10 x 1.5k?! ^O^ Bizarre to keep R24 ibn the "slightly" easier parts.

Jon, well done on the CTC, reducing the rests in the toughest PP session is sadistic, as a way to get back to health after problems it makes no sense to me! Personally I wouldn't go below 70% on the RHR measure (as per FS calculator), and aim for a pace that will get you there, keep to that pace and adjust for next time. Personally I see my HR response but rarely let it direct my pace. Even 70% RHR would be below 2:30 for me even on a 10k and I know that I would get bored and either start cutting the sessions or give up!

Mat, impressive as ever, although I am surprised at the short format of your plan. Is this deliberately for those with limited time?

Keep up the good work all.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Ian Bee »

A rather taxing one today (perhaps because I've extended the duration....):
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A "good" cardio session, and with a slightly squinted eye on target.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Mat »

Really great session Spider - definitely not the easiest one to sit down to but a great execution with your usual negative splitting 8) =D>

Great improvements as ever Ian =D> I did shudder at the description of yesterday's session: "Row hard for 4' then harder for 4', 5 times" =; Seriously tough session, but another impressive improvement, especially on the pace of the "even harder" intervals =D> =D>
Iain wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 11:44 am I am surprised at the short format of your plan. Is this deliberately for those with limited time?
RowAlong have a great 30/30' group of sessions which I've been really enjoying. I learned a long time ago that I'd prefer a really good half hour workout to a lengthy session. This also provides me time to spend another 1/2 hour afterwards either cycling or weight training so I get a real balance for training (see below!). Its really all about maximising time and training benefit

What I didn't expect as a real benefit of these 30' sessions is their continual nature. There's no rest period built in, and so the body works for the entire 30'. Today's session for example was a 1/2 hour pyramid building rate and pace in 4' chunks.
Having worked at 90 - 95% of HR Max through the middle section, I then struggled to match my pace from on the way up the pyramid, but the session kept me rowing through this whilst also recovering enough for the final fast 2'
This definitely provides a different fitness benefit to start / stop interval sessions

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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by spidermac »

Ian a couple of very impressive sessions & improvements. =D> =D>
Mat like yourself I struggle with rowing long sessions & prefer my pain in shorter chunks!!! :lol: also as rowing is not my main focus don`t want to enroach too much on other activities!!
Wup - 2k
Then HD in R1 of a 5x1500 session. Hi HR to start & just didn`t have the beans. :( Rescued with a 30minR20 session
Time dist spm HR split
06:00.0 1357 20 138 02:12.6
06:00.0 1359 20 139 02:12.4
06:00.0 1361 20 140 02:12.2
06:00.0 1365 20 145 02:11.8
06:00.0 1369 20 145 02:11.4
30:00.0 6808 20 141 02:12.1
CD - 1k
Nothing special but happy to have done a wout, don`t want this to become a habit!!
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by JonT »

There is some great training going on here

Back to low HR trading for me today after the exertion of the CTV yesterday.

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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Mat »

Nice couple of 30r20 sessions on here - good work Spider on rescuing your workout :fsbgrin:

The RA plan called on me to perform the same today… decided to push it a little and certainly felt it towards the end! The 2’ splits made me concentrate on hitting the R20 throughout
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Ian Bee »

A string of low rate/ low HR sessions - well done Jon, Spider and Mat. Personally, I've seen significant benefits from the steady state pieces I've included.

Meanwhile:
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My definition of 5k pace was somewhat generous because of the length of the session, but happy with the result. Not doing a 10k TT tomorrow, so will probably sub it out with a long easy session.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Iain »

Great to see so much going on here. R20 feels fast for me at the moment! Ian, re 5k pace, it does say 2k+10. I would hope to be able to better that for 30' even in my current reduced aerobic fitness state! 60R18 is a tough session, adding in 15% at 10S/500m faster with only 1min rests is horrible! After a string of CTC failures ever since I restarted, I am definitely not doing well on the fast stuff at least where the rests are minimal. Keep up the good work.
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