what training have free spirits been doing today?

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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Mat »

spidermac wrote: Wed Oct 02, 2024 2:50 pm Feel a bit out of place doing less than a HM on this thread among all the stamlords!!! :lol: Mat where r u!! We 30min men need to stick together!! :D
I’m here Spider \:D/ and my session this morning was even less than your 30’, so you can relax :lol: Nice work 8)

Great long sessions from Ian and Iain ^O^ They’ll inevitably feel harder on some days than others, and pace is bound to vary a little, but really good to see the time on the erg from you chaps ^O^

Nice work Emander =D> It’s always going to be difficult to find something that effectively manages running and rowing, as well as anything else! Stroke, power and pace will settle down as you become comfortable with the sessions :fsbgrin:

So, just 3 x 6’ r2’ for me this morning before a treadmill run. Definitely not as “all out” as last months CTC, but tough nonetheless

Iain, you’re right in that I need to work on the Ski Erg which I haven’t done yet. I’ve got until January so time to get used to the exercises I’m not too comfortable with (burpee long jumps and weighted squats in particular!)

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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Iain »

Hi Eric, that's much better! SPM a little higher than some, but you are in the "normal range" with mainly 19-23. As someone with short legs I appreciate that we are not going to match Mat's numbers, but a stronger stroke is still achievable, it just requires a more explosive start to the stroke. But to be true to tghe FS culture, that is entirely up to you, what you are doing now will keep you fit and squeezing every watt out is not the priority for most of us. I note that your SPM was increasing through the piece more than pace, this is usually the sign that your muscles were tiring and so a stronger stroke (which would increase the muscular burden while lowering the CV) would probably not have helped as the tiring would increase. If you do want to optimise the stroke, I suggest that you do lower the rating to a more consistent R18 or so and accept that the pace on these SS (which is not the main purpose) will slow a bit, perhaps try and maintain what you were doing at the start at 2:26-7 and concentrate on maintaining the power and trying not to allow the rating to creep up.

Mat, very impressive as ever ^O^ =D> ^O^ . Surprised that you are sticking with Sept CTC when the new one is at a similar pace and distance, although much more sitting around and the 2k to start :shock: might explain the choice.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by spidermac »

Good to see u back Mat - impressive splits as always!! =D> Echo your statement about the Ians mileage.
Iain not sure about exploding at the catch; the advice I have seen is to build acceleration thro the stroke as exploding at the catch tends to lead to early opening of the back? I am hpy to be corrected. :D Eric search a bit for the power graph on your monitor - will help with sequencing your stroke.
EM CD wout today but gave myself a biscuit of a 30s rest!! :D
Wup - 1k
Time dist spm HR split
07:00.0 1581 20 146 02:12.8
06:00.0 1397 22 156 02:08.8
05:00.0 1194 24 162 02:05.6
04:00.0 976 26 166 02:02.9
03:00.0 748 28 168 02:00.3
02:00.0 510 30 168 01:57.6
01:00.0 263 32 167 01:54.0
28:00.0 6669 23 161 02:05.9
CD - 2k
Good wout. Took about 45s at each rating to really get rythm on the stroke.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Iain »

R32 8-[ rather you than me (could manage for 1 min, would probably struggle more in previous 5 min at R28 & 30). Great to see you well enough to do this session Spider :fsbgrin: Good pace and neg split =D>

I wasn't meaning an explosive catch per se, thanks for clarifying. Perhaps "more positive" would be a better terminology. My point is that the more continuous efforts of cycling & running often mean that there is not the positive change required for the power stroke to catch the flywheel early for rowing. It is often more not be fully set at the catch before the stroke begins eg hands starting low or arms not quite straight. I agree that a smoother catch is required. Hard to come up with a form of words that would apply to everyone as emphasizing acceleration during the drive can lead some to excessive leanback &/or jerking the finish.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by spidermac »

Agree Iain that its difficult to convey the subtilties of the stroke with words. EM does this almost every video & I am always amazed how little changes affect the pace - eg not overcompressing/keeping handle level/heels down fast/brush the body/as u say no excessive lean back etc. Even EM sys he is always working on his technique! :shock: Thanks for the comments - HR during warmup was a bit more normal for the first time in ages which is encouraging. :D
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Ian Bee »

Mat - inspiring and disturbing stuff. Impressive sustained power =D>

Spider - nice session and -ve split as mentioned. Not much upward drift in HR towards the sharp end too =D>

Felt quite fresh this morning so - with in mind that the session looked more achievable than others of late - went out with a positive mindset:
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Normal drill of 5k then marathon pace (ISH). Around +2 on those objective measures, but HR cap was not breached and feel like there is headroom there to get within shouting distance of pace targets. Six minutes is apparently psychologically on the nose for me to not feel any HD demons :wink:
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Iain »

NIce session Ian. "Only" hitting 85% on 5k, not sure whether to congratulate you on your fitness or berate you for taking it too easy :lol: Will be interesting to see whether your HR drops as sharply when you get closer to the limit. Also, was end of 5k part of final interval a recording aberation or did you briefly stop? If the latter, well done on getting going again as 16' is not trivial and you pulled the average all the way back without paying price in HR increase.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Ian Bee »

:fsbgrin: Cheers Iain - go ahead with the beration.

The drop is largely down to a deep breath between 26spm and 20spm so I don't go over the rate cap. It didn't feel like an absolute stop, but sometimes the stats hold more truth than memory.....
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Emander »

Thank you all for the encouragment and tips :)
Today I did a 10k time trial (my first ever so that is a PB/SB by definition I guess).
I also tried out the ErgZone app, from a friend who uses it for his SkiErg so I could get those nice little force curves. I will try using the free version for awhile I think.
If the target is a left-leaning haystack I have some thing to work toward, and I also perhaps would benefit from getting the SPI up (deliberately focusing on low rate strong strokes, some kind of rate capped rowing?).

The english flag by my name on the meterboard changed from the Swedish one yesterday (it should be a SWedish flag), I'll see if I can understand why it switched.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Ian Bee »

Emander - you might try going into your profile on the metreboard to make sure it's claimed (click the "this is me" option)? You may need to redo your flag code - this happened to me previously.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Emander »

Ian Bee wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2024 5:29 pm Emander - you might try going into your profile on the metreboard to make sure it's claimed (click the "this is me" option)? You may need to redo your flag code - this happened to me previously.
Thank you! That fixed it :)
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Iain »

Nice 10k Emander and great finish.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Mat »

Iain wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2024 7:29 amAs someone with short legs I appreciate that we are not going to match Mat's numbers...
Mat, very impressive as ever ^O^ =D> ^O^ . Surprised that you are sticking with Sept CTC when the new one is at a similar pace and distance, although much more sitting around and the 2k to start :shock: might explain the choice.
Thanks Iain :fsbgrin: I think we all understand that every session and achievement is personal and has to be considered within one's own perspective. Perhaps I can share mine briefly:
Back when I was rowing at a much faster pace, I almost always followed the C2 plan which has now disappeared from their website, and my "bread and butter" session was an almost weekly 3 x 12' row. I'd aim to hit an average 1:45 pace for this session, and knew that I was "on it" when I could get each interval sub 1:45.
The hardest thing for me now is knowing how far I am from such a pace now, and I have honestly struggled to keep to a plan since returning to rowing after my hip replacement.
So, my weekly rowing session, as mentioned above will be a 3x12, 3 x 6' and 6 x 2' and I'll try to set myself new benchmarks and deliver improvements for these sessions in the weeks ahead. I'll throw in the CTC when I feel in a good place, together with some other sessions when I need a change :D

This morning was a 6 x 2' r2' and I started steady and looked to negative split throughout, gradually getting more uncomfortable as the intervals ticked over. Happy with that benchmark :fsbgrin:

Great to see so much other training since I last posted:
Spider - I love that session (I think I said that last time you did it) with gradually increasing pace and rate. Really well executed =D> =D> I'd echo Iain's comments on the higher stroke rates :shock:
Really nicely executed session Ian, with that mix of 5k and marathon pace - so tough to move between such paces, but you seem to manage it smoothly ^O^
Nice 10k Emander, with an automatic PB to boot (together with a target for next time :twisted: ) Great increase in pace for that final split =D> =D>

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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Emander »

Thanks Iain and Mat, I'll see if I can better it atleast one time more before new year. In spring I will go back to better 60 min benchmark which has been my go to benchmark before. Today, I played around with increasing power with out picking up the rate ie 5 min on/5min off without increasing rate.
/Eric
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by spidermac »

Lots going on. =D> DIY getting in the way of training :evil: so just a 30min session split into 18/20/22spm but went a bit harder than normal 30minR20 session.
Wup - 1k
Time dist spm HR split
05:00.0 1116 18 137 02:14.4
05:00.0 1141 20 145 02:11.4
05:00.0 1175 22 155 02:07.6
05:00.0 1129 18 155 02:12.8
05:00.0 1165 20 160 02:08.7
05:00.0 1191 22 165 02:05.9
30:00.0 6916 20 152 02:10.1
CD - 1k
HR behaving itself today :D RHR at start was 57 a bit more like it tho it should be around 50!
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Emander »

Didn't really have a plan for todays training, and just wanted to put som distance in the bank, so I did straight 30 mins with some sprints to make it more interesting.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Mat »

Nice 30’ sessions from but he Spider and Emander =D> =D>

Back to 3x12’r2’ for me again this morning and once again I did the middle interval at R20

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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Iain »

Mat, that is a strong 6 x 2' & sub 1:45 average =D> . Amazed how you up the pace without increasing the rating on such intervals.

Eric, 2 good sessions there. Good to see your HR recover so well after the harder parts and stroke getting stronger.

Spider, After I spent a weekend decorating I was too tired to row so congrats on another good session on top.

Well I decided to put some work in this weekend. Started with a second session Friday night. HR up a bit (not surprising after tough intervals in morning), so slowed from UT1 to UT2, felt like the end of a marathon with legs very wobbly by the end. Saturday morning I started at UT1, but H/D just under 30', but got back on for more UT2. Then Sunday legs were shot and feeling a bit nauseous (might have been a bit low on carbs) so UT2 throughout, clearly CV had recovered for lowest HR for some time on this. This morning legs still tired, but felt much better, so as can't row tomorrow I pushed UT1 increased for another week, annoyingly HR monitor hadn't charged so no HR today. SO good training and getting used to rowing tired if a bit samey.

Time Distnc Rate Pace Hrmax % HRmin %
15:00 3,311 19 02:15.9 156 84.8% 095 51.6%
15:00 3,311 19 02:15.9 161 87.5% 154 83.7%
15:00 3,311 19 02:15.9 163 88.6% 156 84.8%
15:00 3,311 19 02:15.9 164 89.1% 160 87.0% - fighting to maintain the pace at that rating and at threshold so backed off
15:00 3,151 18 02:20.8 160 87.0% 150 81.5%
15:00 3,151 18 02:21.8 155 84.2% 149 81.0% - even this pace now feeling tough
15:00 3,150 18 02:22.9 154 83.7% 150 81.5%
1:45 22692 18.6 2:18.8 164 89.1%

15:00.0 3,311 19 02:15.9 147 79.9% 080 43.5%
13:28.9 2,974 19 02:16.0 154 83.7% 145 78.8% H/D, discretion better part given intention was distance
15:00.0 3,151 17 02:22.8 140 76.1% 099 53.8%
15:00.0 3,151 17 02:22.8 144 78.3% 136 73.9%
15:00.0 3,151 18 02:22.8 146 79.3% 141 76.6%
15:00.0 3,151 17 02:22.8 147 79.9% 142 77.2%
1:28 18886 17.8 02:20.6 154 83.7%

15:00 3,151 18 02:22.8 145 78.8% 085 46.2% - despite legs struggled to keep rating / pace down
15:00 3,150 17 02:22.9 147 79.9% 140 76.1%
15:00 3,151 17 02:22.8 148 80.4% 140 76.1% - glad for the pace choice now!
15:00 3,151 17 02:22.8 147 79.9% 142 77.2%
15:00 3,151 17 02:22.8 148 80.4% 142 77.2% - felt harder than HR shows, muscular not CV limited as intended
15:00 3,151 17 02:22.8 147 79.9% 140 76.1%
1:30 18901 17.2 2:22.8 148 80.4%

15:00 3,316 19 02:15.7
15:00 3,316 19 02:15.7
15:00 3,316 18 02:15.7 - surprised at the lower rating, harder than usual, but kept Slow down Demons at bay
15:00 3,316 18 02:15.7 - time has slowed, but good mental practice
15:00 3,316 19 02:15.7 - glad to see the end and a rest day.
1:15 16576 18.6 2:15.7
Last edited by Iain on Mon Oct 07, 2024 2:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Ian Bee »

The +/-30min club seems rather popular and impressively consistent well done all.

My excuses start with a weekend away near Manchester so I was pretty glad my targets were quite gentle this morning.
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A little bit of drift towards the end (can I blame the climax of No Time to Die?), but overall happy to stay within the HR cap of 80%. Pretty settled for this session at 2.06-7 so will see about a push come the next round through in a few weeks.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Iain »

Nicely done Ian. I struggle to hold 2:23 pace at <80% HR, has always been thus, so climactic film or not nothing to worry about there. I am seeing some slow improvement with more regular long UT2 rows, so maybe one day I might be able to use the Fletcher Plan, perhaps in prep for Marathon Challenge 2025.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by spidermac »

Mat impressive tho a 3sec drop in split for +4 points in rate - the 20spm interval looked pretty hard!! =D>
Iain - a glutton for punishment - way beyond what my head could take sitting on the erg!!! =D>
Ian - nice HR at that pace. =D>
So shamed into doing something a bit longer by the stamina monsters :D - tho RHR 10 beats higher than yesterday!! :shock:
Wup - 1k
Time dist spm HR split
06:00.0 1334 20 140 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 141 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 147 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 150 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 152 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 152 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 152 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 153 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 153 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 151 02:14.9
01:00:00 13336 20 149 02:14.9
CD - 1k
Felt quite good no HD`s or redlining & an OCD workout as a bonus. Happy days. :shock:
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Mat »

Thanks guys :fsbgrin: though I'm rather embarassed to admit in this company that 3 x 12' is classed as a long session in my book :lol:

Iain - thats a lot of time on the erg over the weekend and clearly a mental as well as physical challenge ^O^ Enjoy your day off the erg tomorrow :fsbgrin:
A real solid hour on the erg for you Ian =D> Hope you had a good weekend :D
The hour is clearly the name of the game today (sorry I missed the memo), and the attention to detail on that OCD row is remarkable Spider ^O^ ^O^
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Iain »

Spider, much lower HR to last time, it may have been high before and rise a bit quicker than sometimes, but topped out lower.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Ian Bee »

Spider - I am in awe of the consistency ^O^

Return to another 5k/marathon session:
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Getting to find the mental side of the 5k reps more achievable. Fatigue is not the limiting factor and the marathon sections are doing the job of active recovery.

Next step is pushing the rate to 26.....
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Iain »

Ian, not sure I understand your graphs, are you showing rating & pace and making all rests active?

It will be interesting to see when you up to 26SPM whether this effects the "recovery" at MP. Another option would be to initially just do 1 or 2 at the higher rating.

Interesting comment on Spider, while his pacing is excellent, on the tougher sessions both of us struggle to hold the rating which you seem to do with little effort. I can generally hold R18,20,24,30 by coordinating with the clock, but other ratings are a bit more hit and miss, especially if the pace becomes challenging at the required rate / I get tired (when rating drops without constant attention).
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