what training have free spirits been doing today?

[Emander]

Iain - I'm not even sure that I can expect the numbers to pan out really. Almost all power training vocabulary is leaning heavily on bikes, which apart from maybe track cycling have much longer work times. For now it is part the learning experience

Mat - Hyrox I have only seen on Youtube, it seems very challenging but I guess rowing should help build a real good general work capacity.

Very impressing long rows, last year long steady low intensity rows was all I did. Now I have stumbled on more interval work, which is rewarding in the sense that its nice to feel like your working hard. I still probably need to start incorporating more easy work to keep it sustainable. I had some niggling neck stiffness from saturday and forward so yesterdays and todays session has been to see if rowing aggravates it or not.

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Disregard the stroke rate spike I had respond to a text.

[ArenT]

Seeing some great workouts from everyone on this thread - particularly impressive amounts of volume, everyone really getting the metres/calorie burn in.

(Note to self: when uploading attachments, upload them in REVERSE order for them to appear in the correct order, since it defaults to showing most recent/last uploaded first).

Quick update for last few days:

Wednesday 16th:

- 50 minutes on BikeErg, Z1/Z2 easy spin, 21756m

Thursday 17th:

- Rest day

Friday 18th:

- Strength training, basically several sets of 5 rep heavy deadlifts
- 4 x 2000m AT interval RowErg

(screenshot/attachment 1)

This workout was especially tough after the deadlifts, felt really smoked and wanting to quit for the first two intervals, managed to dig in and complete the workout. Obviously I known that in an IDEAL world, one would keep taxing CNS exercises like deadlifts well away from demannding high aerobic/threshold work, as you're especially hammering two very different energy systems/metabolic demands. But unlike Olympic athletes who have the luxury of being able to spread their workouts across the day in between eating, sleeping, receiving massages, etc. for those of us in typical life, it is more a case of having to fit the workouts in whenever we're not at work, and so that might mean having to have strength training and CV workouts back to back... (Admittedly if I was better at getting up/a morning person, I could in theory do strength training in morning and CV in evening, or vice-versa, but that really doesn't work for me: I don't want a long workout in the morning, and on the other hand I don't feel motivated to lift heavy weights first thing after waking, I prefer a leisurely start to my day with a cup of tea!


Saturday 19th:

- Easy/moderate ~5km SkiErg (3 x 5:00 / 3:00 easy)

Did one of the short SkiErg WOD as a warm-up/balancer. Moderate effort.

- 15 x 1 minute low spm power intervals RowErg

(screenshot/attachment 2)

Trying to stick to the low 20-ish SPM for these high-power short intervals was very challenging. I'd programmed ErgZone at the upper/optimistic end of the power range, so that I have some scope to strive/improve for in future re-rows. Psychologically quite tough, particularly with so many, but managed to kind of save my best till last. Still felt some lingering fatigue from the deadlifts, I think.

Also went out for a 2 hour walk for coffee + cake with my wife in afternoon, so plenty of steps/further activity.

Sunday 20th:

(screenshot/attachment 3)

Good recovery and good sleep meant I was ready to put some serious Z1/Z2 time in on the BikeErg, with some efforts in the so-called "sweet spot" or sub-threshold range. I guess rowing world would classify these as UT1 intervals inspersing long stretches of UT3. BikeErg is easier for longer efforts, in particular because you can comfortably setup your iPad/tablet and just watch something to distract/interest yourself whilst following your workout (though I may get into the habit of doing the same for any rows I do that are > 60 mins etc). In my case, I like to actually watch cycling whilst cycling. Maybe I should start watching rowing racing whilst rowing I also have that little plastic Concept2 PM5 phone cradle (which just about fits, though it is a little bit small for many phones these days), so use my phone for the workout app/programmed routine, and the tablet for entertainment.

Anyway, most of this workout was pretty easy, endurance work, but the sub-threshold + surges did start to get a bit taxing as it wore on toward the 2+ hour mark. Lots of decent meterage and lots of solid foundation work to keep the gradual trim down going (I don't do diets, I enjoy my chocolate cake too much! ).

[Iain]

Eric, the higher peak power required on the rower definitely takes its toll. I am no cyclist, but I understand that hard 1-2 hour rides are at much higher proportions of shorter cycles than rows would be, hence the difficulty with "FTP" for rowing and why I always use the vague term "threshold".

Aren, good varied training there. Impressed that you kept going on the 4 x 2k after the weights and you couldn't maintain target. PP session for me.

[Ian Bee]

Eric - I've flipped the other way to focus more on SS or longer sessions for a spell. I couldn't really find the sweet spot for the really AT sessions and after a while I lost the focus and motivation. Looks a good quality session to built from.

Aren - nice series of sessions and certainly supportive of building CV.

After yesterday's relatively mild start:

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Quite pleased overall - HR behaved and the 5k segments were quite manageable alongside good recovery during active rests.

[spidermac]

LOts going on. Nice 60min Ian pity to just miss 15k!
ArenT that is some post - I like my data but couldn`t cope with that much detail.
So in a bit of a slump in my erging - have HD in last two sessions on sprint sessions, ego getting in the way as usual going off to fast. Finding it tuff to accept the decline in pace with the treatment. Can`t match my paces from a few months ago. Today was an HD on 12x1minon 1 off - got to R7 & HR already 170 - no way I could do another 6 intervals & -ve split.
Managed to do a 30minR20 to salvage something.
wup - 5k!!!!
Time Dist spm HR split
06:00.0 1335 20 152 02:14.8
06:00.0 1335 20 152 02:14.8
06:00.0 1334 20 153 02:14.9
06:00.0 1335 20 149 02:14.8 - started 2 breaths a stroke
06:00.0 1335 20 149 02:14.8
30:00.0 6672 20 151 02:14.8
CD - 1k
Pleased with HR drift. Started with 2 breaths a stroke from R4 & it brought the HR down a bit. I have always just taken 1 breath per stroke but something I must try more.

[Iain]

Ian well done at raising to R26 well within cap.

Spider, I find 1 breath is almost never enough for more than a few mins! Does depend on how good you are at breathing through nose! Sorry to hear youy have been struggling. 12 is a lot, very rarely do more than 10. I would recommend spitting in 2 with 4min+ rest if you reach this as it is the accumulated oxygen debt with partial recovery that really makes these tough. But well recovered with the 30R20.

[spidermac]

Thanks for the comments Iain - we all go thro these phases - the trick is to kep going & not get so disheartened as to stop!!! I will keep trying.

[Emander]

Today was a blind session, with some tv-series running. Meters in the bank, so that I can exceed last years total meters.

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[ArenT]

Emander, yes, I think it is good to throw in the occasional unstructured/"by feel" workout. Having a training plan etc. is good, but I think it is important to have the odd session where you just get the metres in (or kilometres if you go for a run or do some other type of "it's a nice day outside so I'll do this" exercise).

Spidermac, haha, yeah, I'm a software dev so probably tend to get overly analytical at times Your workout was an impressive study in both near perfect even splits and near perfect even HR/low drift.

I am no cyclist, but I understand that hard 1-2 hour rides are at much higher proportions of shorter cycles than rows would be, hence the difficulty with "FTP" for rowing and why I always use the vague term "threshold".

Interesting observation Iain, I'll have to think about this one a bit more and look at some of my own data to see whether that relationship true for me based on my own sessions. I think I've got a pretty good idea as to what my current "rowing FTP" is, and what my "cycling FTP" is, and although I would say my background means I'm more technically efficient/highly trained at cycling (sheer number of hours developing pedalling technique), that is maybe starting to (hopefully!) even up a bit as I've put such a focus into [indoor] rowing this season (and going forward). So it'd mean I'd probably get a good comparison set (since most people either cycle a huge amount and hardly ever row, or vice versa).

That's another really tough session Ian, though your fitness development is showing, HR was not too high (for you); fatigue resistance and high aerobic repeatability seems to be a real strength of yours.


---

Monday 21st:

- Rest day, just enjoyed a nice walk.

Tuesday 22nd:

- Walk in afternoon
- 30 minutes strength session, mainly heavy deadlifts
- UT2 steady row, ~40 minutes

I don't know whether other people experience this, but I'm guessing it is due to the accumulation of "metabolic junk" (hence why cyclists on three week Grand Tours still always go out for a (short-ish) ride on the rest days during the race), but rather than feeling good after a rest day and fully recovered, the first session back I actually normally feel lethargic and struggle, which is usually why I try to avoid programming a tough workout in immediately after rest day.

Anyway, think it was a fuelling issue, as struggled despite the easy pace, and it took more than 30 minutes into the 40 minute row before I finally felt good, and "in the zone"! Don't think I ate enough during the day, as felt the need for an energy gel with 20 minutes to go, which made a big difference a few minutes later. So the ironic thing was I felt good just as the workout was ending. I'd slept and recovered well etc. as well. Pace was better than the numbers suggest, as during the long interval I stopped for a couple of 30 second breaks to quaff drink/gel and also adjust music etc, so SS pace was more about 2:10 or so. Comparing it against the equivalent session from a month ago, looks like pace has gone up for pretty much similar heart rate. So data tells slightly different story to "feel".

In any case, a difficult "easy" session, but acted as a good clearout so I expect I'll feel really good tomorrow, and as we all know, the most important thing is to be consistent, some days you feel great, but its the days where you get the training in when you're rowing through proverbial syrup that really count, in a way.

[spidermac]

Finally got the sprint monkey off my back!! EM wout 2 rounds of 30son/30soff upping spm every 2 sets.
Wup - 3k
Time dist spm HR split
00:30.0 126 26 140 01:59.0 - standing start
00:30.0 132 26 156 01:53.6
00:30.0 135 28 159 01:51.1
00:30.0 136 28 162 01:50.2
00:30.0 138 30 165 01:48.6
00:30.0 139 30 166 01:47.9
00:30.0 139 32 166 01:47.9
00:30.0 141 32 167 01:46.3
00:30.0 142 34 169 01:45.6
00:30.0 144 36 169 01:44.1
R 4.30
00:30.0 136 28 153 01:50.2
00:30.0 138 30 162 01:48.6
00:30.0 139 30 166 01:47.9
00:30.0 140 32 168 01:47.1
00:30.0 141 32 171 01:46.3
00:30.0 142 34 170 01:45.6
00:30.0 142 36 171 01:45.6
00:30.0 142 36 170 01:45.6
00:30.0 142 36 170 01:45.6
00:30.0 143 36 169 01:44.8
10:00.0 2775 31 164 01:48.1
CD - 2k
Did this back in June pre treatment av was 1.47.6 so not too far off but HR was 155! Missed target spm a few times in 2nd round but not too bothered. Lost form a bit in the last few sets. Happy to do something a bit faster & higher spm.

[Iain]

Eric, good to see a longer continuous piece.

Aren, probably me, but confused by your stats. Am I right thinking the paces shown are the targets so you need to adjust for the actual? Good to get a good session in at a low HR. Interested to know how you find cycling and rowing performances correspond.

Spider, impressive session, I hate 30S rests with a passion as no strength to get going for next interval! Impressive result as well.

After my late long interval session Monday evening at lower rating, decided to double up 34 hours later with a "strength" session of 12 x 100m r1' at 10M/Stroke. Last time done after 624M CTC, so should go significantly faster than the 1:46.3 managed in June. Strangely did 10 x 20S r1' at the same average 2 months ago. Happy with the result. Used DF 135 as this felt unusably high in warm up and really poor first strokes shooting slide and hauling anchor!

Time Distnc Rating Pace Hrmax % HRmin %
0:21.4 100 28.0 01:47.0 127 69.0% 088 47.8%
0:21.2 100 28.3 01:46.0 145 78.8% 104 56.5%
0:21.1 100 28.4 01:45.5 145 78.8% 107 58.2%
0:20.7 100 29.0 01:43.5 153 83.2% 113 61.4%
0:20.8 100 28.8 01:44.0 155 84.2% 107 58.2%
0:20.8 100 28.8 01:44.0 158 85.9% 117 63.6%
0:20.5 100 29.3 01:42.5 159 86.4% 121 65.8% - not sure why quicker!
0:20.8 100 28.8 01:44.0 158 85.9% 121 65.8%
0:20.8 100 28.8 01:44.0 158 85.9% 118 64.1%
0:20.8 100 28.8 01:44.0 160 87.0% 123 66.8%
0:20.7 100 29.0 01:43.5 160 87.0% 121 65.8%
0:20.9 100 28.7 01:44.5 162 88.0% 118 64.1% - finished off seat
4:10.5 1200 28.7 1:44.4 162 88.0%

[Ian Bee]

Monstrous sprinting Iain and Spider - great results I agree that shorter rests make it all thr more difficult to pick up again (and time stroke 1 of the next rep).

Aren - nice session. Do you have target paces in mind - 500m reps ahead of 40 minutes is quite a combination

Slack session for me:

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Scaled back my targets from last run through given the intensity of yesterday but a decent session to push CV gently. 2 minutes rest feels like it should be nice, but after a brief hand readjustment it scarcely counts

Iain - I would leave the red/green arrows in my Ergzone grabs but I find them unhelpful - in pace red means you're over your target while red in pace means slower than target.

[Iain]

Thanks Ian, looks like a good session with the grey 17' followed by UT1 interval.

My session was far from sprinting as done at comparatively low rate for 100m.

It wasn't the arrows that confused me, it was that the paces shown are the targets and so to understand the session you have to adjust by the arrows first.

[ArenT]

Aha! I hadn't realised/twigged until this conversation that the display of the splits prior to screenshot would be configurable in ErgZone, but then realised after a few seconds reflection it must surely be (especially given Ian's screenshots, etc.), so cue some finger tapping around and realised that tapping on the /500m column first row, does indeed toggle the units, including, in particular, the display of actual /500m splits versus the "target + arrow" /500m spilts variant.

Iain, as Ian has noted, red arrow + small numbers mean you were slower than target by that amount, i.e. so target time + offset amount, green arrow faster than, so target time - offset.

Do you have target paces in mind - 500m reps ahead of 40 minutes is quite a combination

Yes. I'm actually broadly following a 10km piece training plan, plus my own additions/augmentations for extra volume/other exercise on top.

One of the things it features is this rather nasty ramped 500m "warm-up" start to each workout, i.e. so even if the workout is an easy UT2 effort, it still has this short ramp meaning that by the 4th 500m you're rowing at your all-out 2K pace. I guess the idea is to have a very short spike in intensity, meaning that it is sufficiently short that it isn't actually that taxing, but does a good job of "waking up" your CNS. Sometimes I don't like quite such an aggressive warm-up, or I'm busy still fiddling with drinks and getting into position etc., so I'll happily deviate as needed during the warm-up phase (particularly the last 500m) so that I'm actually properly set/prepared for the main work piece.

So you will probably notice somewhat often some spikes/brief drops near the end of the ramp before the main workout begins, and that's me using the warm-up to just get settled without worrying about targets (since it is the targets in the main piece I care about!).

The 40 minute UT2 piece I was aiming for about 2:10 or thereabouts, which I hit once you subtract the two brief 30 second stops etc. for drink. I tend to deliberately ramp up my ErgZone benchmarks just slighly ahead/aggressive, though actually, I'm pretty certain I could beat the 7:30 2K benchmark I currently have configured in an all-out test. I suppose I should grit my teeth and do one in the not too distant future... but you can get a very close idea based on your aggregate performances/efforts on lots of sub-maximal pacing efforts.


---

My prediction/prior knowledge of my own body proved correct once more, namely, the lethargy/poor feeling after the rest day translated into feeling on top-form the day after. In other words, "rest day + first day after easy/poor = second day great" is my formula. Extremely happy with today's workout (Wednesday 23rd), absolutely nailed my intended/exact target with a 10x1000m r 2' AT workout. Recovery between intervals felt very good and had minimal HR drift.

Not quite up in the class of an "OCD" workout, i.e. couldn't match spidemac's precision of +/- 0.1 on intevals, but pretty close, and 25 spm was almost perfect across them all.

Anyway, cue an ErgZone screenshot without confusing arrow-business going on

[Emander]

I guess technically this yesterdays training, but it was another day with som steady work.

time dst pace W cal spm hr
45:00.0 9,325m 2:24.7 115 696 18 129
5:00.0 1,036m 2:24.7 115 696 19 121
10:00.0 1,038m 2:24.5 116 699 18 125
15:00.0 1,036m 2:24.7 115 696 18 126
20:00.0 1,036m 2:24.7 115 696 18 130
25:00.0 1,036m 2:24.7 115 696 18 129
30:00.0 1,034m 2:25.0 115 694 19 131
35:00.0 1,036m 2:24.7 115 696 19 131
40:00.0 1,036m 2:24.7 115 696 19 134
45:00.0 1,036m 2:24.7 115 696 19 137

[Iain]

Aren, I find that I perform better after a day off, although sometimes I feel sluggish during the warm up, the performance on the main piece is better. Good 10x1k, nasty looking session that I don't think I have ever done. That said, I don't think I have ever kept HR down below 80% on intervals and currently maintaining R25 would push me well into AT. Well done for keeping it so even. Personally 500m seems a long "ramp" on a warm up, I use 30" or sometimes 1'. Anything that gets the HR up and starts the sweat flowing should do.

Eric, good consistent workout.

[ArenT]

Personally 500m seems a long "ramp" on a warm up, I use 30" or sometimes 1'. Anything that gets the HR up and starts the sweat flowing should do.

Indeed, you might well be right. It's good to play around with things. My natural inclination is similar to yours, or indeed just to have a quite gentle warmup. But this program has these, so thought I'd follow it and see how it works out. Despite a few minor issues, however, it does seem an effective program. It has more interval work than I was expecting, but that is probably a good thing for me, as left to my own devices I tend to favour long steadier "mainly aerobic" pieces, so it is probably a useful corrective.

---


Felt great again today, and had an almost perfect workout completely in the zone/on target.

My objective/target was precisely 80% of rowing FTP for 50 minutes for UT2, which for me corresponded to 167W or 2:08.1/500m pace. SPM target was 18-20, so I perhaps still need to work on just fractionally edging that lower, as I ended up at 21 average overall. The trickiest part of the workout was trying to prevent the stroke rate going up. I was targeting around 8.0 SPI to hit the relevant numbers.

I'm going to start programming all of my future workouts as % factors against rowing FTP (even if that means first converting from 2k +/- split pacings), as for me, it makes far more physiological sense (and even more so give my cycling background). Nevertheless, I always also study the /500m split equivalents, and have both numbers up on screen, so over time I'm hoping that I basically almost completely internalise a mental translation from one to the other.

Given that pace correlates as the cube root of power, using pace targets by themselves, as is common, is quite a "lumpy" scale, especially since it starts getting tricky to be precise to +/- 0.5 / 500m split or better once pace/power gets high. By comparison, watts are watts, so much easier to express on a smooth scaling factor.

Seem to have made some good gains in fitness, some HR drift so still more potential, though it is difficult to tell how much of that HR drift is just down to normal heat build-up as you start off cold then warm-up/start sweating. Drift was quite modest in second half and indeed seemed to plateau.

[Mat]

So much to catch up on after being away from the thread fopr most of this week. Too much to go into detail, so please accept a plethora of clapping emojis for the volume and quality of training from Eric, Aren, Spider, Iain and Ian

Odd week for me this week with an easy ride on Monday followed by the CTC on Tuesday, which I was happy with. Wednesday saw a tough Hyrox session and then yesterday I sat down to row but really struggled and baled out very early on. In all likelihood, this may have been affected by the fact that Tu/Wed/Th also involved the manual removal of the turf and top few inches of soil from c60m2 of a grassed area followed by the spreading of 4 tonnes of slate sub-base on the same area! Today's online cycle race was similarly affected with a mild AF episode which led me to drop out of the race.

An easy-ish day planned for the rest of today though with luck I'll try out my Ski Erg which is due to be delivered later

Keep up the great work

[Iain]

Aren, 8SPI at R20 is 160W, so not surprising that you exceeded your target, but good solid session. Mat, sounds like you are keeping fit despite limited rowing to report, enjoy your new toy . TOday's training on PP thread.

[spidermac]

Mat diy is a fitness killer - often doing repetitive movements that the body isn`t used to so not surprised it affected the following days of training - have experienced this often myself.
Pretty fast yourself Iain turning into a sprint monster.
Emander looks like I have some competition in the OCD stakes!!!
On that note today a 40minR20
Wup - 1k
Time dist spm HR split
05:00.0 1112 20 136 02:14.8
05:00.0 1112 20 140 02:14.8
05:00.0 1112 20 143 02:14.8
05:00.0 1112 20 146 02:14.8
05:00.0 1112 20 148 02:14.8
05:00.0 1112 20 149 02:14.8
05:00.0 1112 20 149 02:14.8
05:00.0 1112 20 152 02:14.8
40:00.0 8888 20 145 02:15.0
CD - 1k
PM3 strikes again with av of 2.15.0?? HR a bit higher than I would like but overall an OK wout.

[Ian Bee]

If only there were a feedback button to click on all those sessions - it's so motivating to see lots of sessions piling up when I seemingly was posting seconds ago.

For my 2p for warm up, I do a 1min at 2.05 pace with slightly negative split for 5 reps, 1min active recovery. Seems to work for me - concur with Iain that anything to get warm and raise HR a little does the trick.

Two sessions to pick over:

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I actually fooled myself to thinking Thursday's session would be mild, so my bluffing saw me through with little pain. 4 minutes rest is really quite a decent chunk after a marathon rep.

Today was equally mild, though I do find the lower rate (for me anyway) tends to push the explosive end of my technique and therefore gets my HR higher than I would expect (though still within target).

[Mat]

I reckon that your OCD crown is safe with that session, even if the PM clearly isn’t very good at maths!

Great couple of sessions Ian - you’re really turning in some great quality training

Didn’t feel up to training this morning but managed a steady 3x6’ session this evening after cottage changeovers.

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Then had a practice on the Ski erg - just 1k as I get used to it. Tough going and very different to rowing

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[Mat]

Hyrox training for me this morning which involved a full run through (only 500m runs though), including 1k Ski Erg and Row sections.
Most training done outside on a beautiful, frosty morning (chilly for the burpee broad jumps!), thought I’d share a pic of the sled pull (with home made sled)

[spidermac]

Agree pretty chilly this am Mat - 6 degrees in the garage neccesitated a 3k warm up!!!
Power strokes 20x1min at supposed to be 20spm but have failed to hit that target the last few times & today was no different!!!
WUp - 3k
Time dist spm HR split
01:00.0 249 21 152 02:00.4
01:00.0 253 21 155 01:58.5
01:00.0 253 21 157 01:58.5
01:00.0 255 21 160 01:57.6
01:00.0 255 21 159 01:57.6
01:00.0 255 21 161 01:57.6
01:00.0 256 21 162 01:57.1
01:00.0 255 21 162 01:57.6
01:00.0 254 22 160 01:58.1 - grrr spm a bit erratic
01:00.0 256 22 164 01:57.1
01:00.0 256 22 164 01:57.1
01:00.0 255 21 164 01:57.6
01:00.0 256 22 165 01:57.1 - starting to lose consistency again!!!
01:00.0 256 22 164 01:57.1
01:00.0 257 22 166 01:56.7
01:00.0 257 22 166 01:56.7
01:00.0 255 21 165 01:57.6
01:00.0 256 22 166 01:57.1
01:00.0 255 21 166 01:57.6
01:00.0 256 22 165 01:57.1
20:00.0 5101 21 162 01:57.6
CD - 2k
Last time thro was 1.58.1 but no 22spm intervals!!!Found it hard to hit the start at 20spm which screwed up the stroke count. Did the job & tired the legs, averaged over 10 spi, tho I think encourages a bit of a weird technique shortening the stroke & forward lean!!

[Mat]

Nice session Spider, and a good, consistent pace throughout once you’d settled into it
The R20 can be tough to hit on short, hard intervals, with the only option I’ve found being counting strokes (which I do on every session whatever the pace, as I break it into chunks, but then I’m odd like that), but if you find you’ve reached 20 with 4/5s to go, I think you make the right choice in taking another stroke as the alternative of drifting in would screw up the average pace which is probably more important in these sessions

3 x 12’ for me this morning but once again the head wasn’t in it so I just did the 2 and then a 6’ piece in the ski erg as I get used to the technique (the splits are just to see how it varies as I tire)

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