what training have free spirits been doing today?

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JonT
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by JonT »

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A “hard but not max” RowAlong session for me today. 5x6mins each split 3/2/1min at r20/24/28. The idea is to do the r20 at UT pace and build from there. 30 mins goes quickly with this one.

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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Ian Bee »

That looks a valuable session Jon. A contrast to my 30/20spm
IMG_20240103_090901.jpg
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Not hard per se, but a certain mental anguish to hold to the rating and very little to distract.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Ian Bee »

Eugh:
IMG_20240104_095801.jpg
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IMG_20240104_101628.jpg
IMG_20240104_101628.jpg (488.76 KiB) Viewed 2623 times
Started out feeling it was going to be tough, and it was!! Missed last times' targets by a smidge but happy enough.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by spidermac »

Nice 30minR20 Ian. No rowing for the last 2 weeks - inlaws staying over the festive period then got a bout of man flu!! Still not 100% but fed up lying on the sofa so did the latest EM wout - 3x10minR60s at various spm.
wup - 1k
Time dist spm HR split
10:00.0 2229 20 126 02:14.5
R60s
05:00.0 1122 20 129 02:13.6
05:00.0 1152 22 136 02:10.2
R60s
05:00.0 1145 20 139 02:11.0
03:00.0 701 22 143 02:08.3
02:00.0 482 24 147 02:04.4
30:00.0 6830 20 136 02:11.7
CD - 1k
Felt surprisingly good hopefully some consistent rowing next few months.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Ian Bee »

Good fitness building session Spider 💪

Mildy frustrating few sessions to summarise: came a cropped with ergzone and erg not communicating reps of less than 20s (which has an impact on the 500m sessions I'm struggling through) and a few HRM niggles which hopefully are now sorted.

Exhibit A for the prosecution:
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Horrible from the off.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by spidermac »

Looks a well controlled session Ian. =D>
Quite a big day ski touring yesterday so just a 30minR20 today
Wup - 1k
Time dist spm HR split
06:00.0 1334 20 119 02:14.9
06:00.0 1333 20 121 02:15.0
06:00.0 1334 20 124 02:14.9
06:00.0 1333 20 128 02:15.0
06:00.0 1334 20 132 02:14.9
30:00.0 6666 20 124 02:15.0
CD - 1k
Still struggling with acough/chest infection - went to see GP few days ago who confirmed it was not a recuurence of my pneumonia from last year thank goodness. :D Not sure if due to yesterdays efforts but HR substantially lower than what I have been averaging for this session :shock: - usually around 134 average - maybe getting a bit fitter? :lol: :lol:
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by J-Dog »

I’m back after quite a while away: firstly forced, then laziness/inertia.

I’m starting gentle, with 5Ks at a limited HR, aiming to speed up the average pace each time.

I’m within 10 ish rows of my first million metres, so using that as a milestone target.

Hope everyone’s well, and training in their ways?

Best regards,

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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Ian Bee »

Hi J Dog, I imagine that 1m will be rather sweet when it arrives - what's your countdown?

I'm on a cardio week so began with:
IMG_20240115_091356.jpg
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A little improvement on my PB and a good sign I'm pretty much over Christmas coughs [-o<
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by J-Dog »

I have about 39k to go :-)

I'm doing HR-driven, too, but much more cautiously than you need to, I think.

My first long row after re-starting was keeping to max 145 or so, and was very slow.

Last one I aimed at a bit faster pace, but I seem to have got back into it faster than I thought, and the HR didn't go up beyond 143 at the end, so I should probably have gone a bit quicker.

I'm doing 5Ks at the moment, so 8 to go and I may get a T-shirt. Should I ask for one that fits me now, or one that will fit if I get lean and mean after lots of training? :-)

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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Ian Bee »

I've read lots of enthusiasm about heart rate training, but I've never had a good understanding/ accurate measurement type combination to fully convince myself to hold back to fit with a given band of training - much prefer perceived effort.

Today was an example:
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Arguably not pure cardio, but didn't feel threshold (though Garmin and various charts would have it so).
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by JonT »

ZoomErgos session with Matt Parish today. 4x8min 2:00r with various rating changes from 22-26. I find these video rows far easier to get through than a solo session.

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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Ian Bee »

I've tried a few row-along on YouTube and agree it does help hugely.

Today was an ugly sawtooth:
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Didn't feel right with the rate and pace throughout so glad that's done for a while.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Mike Channin »

2024-01-17 HM Intervals.png
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Today's HM session was a bit different, so I thought I'd share it here.
Usual HM (21097m) done as 1000m intervals, but the plan was to get some faster interval work in, by doing every second 1000m at 2:00 target (and 2:20 for the rest)
Wasn't sure how this would work out, but it turned out to be a lot more comfortable than I was expecting, given the lack of any higher pace work for a while, plus the fast bits were good for keeping warm, as it was below zero in the rowing shed at the start.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by obirobsan »

Today’s 11,111 - this is a pretty standard chart of my rowing experiences these days.

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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Mike Channin »

obirobsan wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2024 6:59 pm Today’s 11,111 - this is a pretty standard chart of my rowing experiences these days.
Hmm. You don't sound very happy about your performance.
Obviously, one graph (plus a signature) isn't much to go on, and I don't know your max HR. However, the following can be seen.

You've done a continuous piece with a warm-up section at the start (2:25ish), and then pace work at something like 2:10
Your rate is very consistent across the piece, but VERY HIGH, especially for someone very tall and massing a lot.
-> You should work on developing more power per stroke.
Your HR drifts quite a lot, so you're definitely working hard and/or not very conditioned for this level of power.
-> As your conditioning improves, your HR curve will change and flatten
When you start the 'main event', you increase the power gradually, rather than going straight to a target level
-> It's personal preference, but I tend to have a target pace/power and then aim to be pretty close to it.

Of course, it all depends on what you're training for, what else you do, and what injuries and issues you have to work with.
No promises, but if you fire up a new thread either here or on Training and Racing and post your sessions and goals, I will try to give some pointers...
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Ian Bee »

Nice row Mike (similar to my "saw tooth").

Rob: I can't add much to Mike's thoughts, but would say the step up from averaging sub 10km rows regularly to over 10k (with a focus on low rates) really put paid to the HR drift I used to see on cardio focused rows. Just my tuppence.

Exhibit B:
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Mike Channin »

Nice HM Ian!
Looks like no HR drift at all (and maybe even a slight drop off, which is interesting as I sometimes see that shape around the same time too).
Good solid power at 20SPM too - much better than what I'm producing right now!
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by obirobsan »

Hey Mike - appreciate your very thoughtful feedback based on some super limited info. :) I'm not particularly down on the 11k, it's just so-so -- this session was my personal equivalent of the "Just Row" setting. I pick a distance, go through the warm-up range (~1500m), and then see what it looks like I'm rowing via "projected finish". On this day, at the end of 1500, I was sort of sitting at around sub 60m, and I just kept putting the pressure on, until probably mid way through it looked like I'd found sub-50 and it was about as fast as I felt like I could hold the pace for the last 30ish minutes. You're right, that pace was essentially 2:10ish. That's hard enough for me that I can't sustain that pace forever, it causes the gradual increase in heart rate. My final HR on that piece was 162. I've run as high as 180 previously, but anything up in the 160s is a pretty hard workout.

I don't particularly mind the 26-27ish SPM, it feels "normal" to me in pacing. I can go up to about 32 without feeling like I'm really pushing the pace, stuff sub-24 feels really slow and awkward -- my natural rhythm seems to be higher than that. (This month's CTC is a real bear for me because rowing 20's for me is a constant start/stop non rhythmic thing that makes every pull a giant effort -- thus the effect you guys all saw of my first "from stop" cycle of 250 actually being my fastest time!) Others have also mentioned the same advice you have, "learn to row at the same pace at ~20 or less SPM, and then rowing at 24 or 28 will be explosively fast". It's on my to do list. haha. It's not very fun!!

I suspect that my form is all screwed up honestly - I was recently reading Cal's rowing website (in my quest to find an on the water rowing club that accepts old geezers like me that have never rowed a day of crew in their life), and saw they suggested in their FAQ -- "don't use an ERG before you show up here because you'll learn all kinds of bad habits and we'll have to break you of them". So, approaching 2M meters, I've violated that advice "a bit". As a result, for a huge guy, I think my stroke length is shorter than expected (ergdata doesn't capture stroke length that I see these days). I think that's because my body swing instead of being 11:00 to 1:00 is probably more like 11:57 to 12:03. I also suspect that I'm getting core collapse on the drive, which means I lean forward as I'm driving and lose leg contribution that way. As a result, there's a lot of "how strong is my upper body" in my rowing. It's on my to-do list to make a video of rowing form for you guys to advise me on -- doing solo workouts in a gym makes it a little inconvenient! And candidly, I'm a bit afraid of the bruising of my ego around "OMG what ARE you DOING??!!!" When I really focus on form, I can sense the difference, not in speed, but in easiness.

When I'm not doing my funky Just Row --- I typically do it more the way you describe. Do 1500m at a comfortable pace (like 2:30ish) just to loosen everything up. Then, do a separate measurement piece starting with a couple of shorter more rapid strokes (probably ~40 SPM) to accelerate to desired pace, and then just hold that pace.

As for goals, it's really just trying to return to my level I had last year -- under the theory of another year of experience compensates for the degradation of a year in the mid 50's -- but I had a long break (about 6 months), and added 25kg, so there's work to be done on both fronts to compete with my previous personal bests (all less than 2 years old). Longer term, I'd count a sub 7 2k as a big victory.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by spidermac »

No rowing since last weekend - lurgi still hanging around as seen in HR during wout today. :(
Standard 30minR20
Wup - 1k
Time dist spm HR split
06:00.0 1335 20 137 02:14.8
06:00.0 1336 20 142 02:14.7
06:00.0 1337 20 144 02:14.6
06:00.0 1336 20 145 02:14.7
06:00.0 1336 20 145 02:14.7
30:00.0 6677 20 142 02:14.7
CD - 1k
HR average 18 beats higher than last time - obviously still not recovered!!! :(
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by obirobsan »

Setting up to finish my 2M over the weekend, a bit of tenderness in upper back/one shoulder so decreased df to sub 100 for more stretch than weight lifting, tried the 20 spm long distance, set pace where I thought HR drift wouldn’t be bad.. was semi successful albeit pretty slow. As an ex-marathoner I’d rate this as a “long jog”

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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Ian Bee »

So close to OCD Spider :lol:

Rob - at 100df and 20spm, I'd be very happy with that.

In my haste to row (read warm up) yesterday, I went with a steady state HM so today (with still freezing temperatures) I went back to a negative split HM:
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My list of excuses include needing to wear jogging bottoms and a training jacket to keep warm :roll:
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by spidermac »

Still churning out the impressive HM`s Ian well done. =D> =D> Good to see so many folk posting here.
Wanted to push a bit harder today so CD wout increasing spm every round but gave myself a bit of a biscuit - 90s rest between rounds. :D
Wup - 1k
Time dist spm HR split
12:00.0 2699 18 142 02:13.3
10:00.0 2290 20 150 02:11.0
08:00.0 1862 22 153 02:08.8
06:00.0 1418 24 153 02:06.9
04:00.0 965 26 155 02:04.3
02:00.0 500 28 154 02:00.0
01:00.0 261 30 148 01:54.9
43:00.0 9994 21 150 02:09.0
CD - 1k
Still coughing a bit but got into a good rythm on most rounds.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Mike Channin »

Yes - very impressive HM's Ian - well ahead of what I've got!

Managed to get through the weekend, and today's was a 2:07 Target:
2024-01-21 HM at 2-06.9.png
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Ian Bee »

Really consistent HM Mike - particularly that far into crazy bear ^O^

Back to 5k training - simple 30min/18spm:
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A good deal of concentration to hold to the rate this morning. Glad for the milder temperatures!
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Ian Bee »

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Not tried this session before so it was a bit of a fumble in the dark for what constituted max pace. Also a reminder of how tough I find it to hold to a specific high pace. Next time will be interesting 🤔
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