what training have free spirits been doing today?

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Ian Bee
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Ian Bee »

Keeping me honest:
20240214_092226~2.jpg
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Hit spm?: [-X
Hit pace target?: [-X
#-o :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Today, couldn't hit the start of each rep and then had to deal with a sudden rush to the head (rating way too high) and then under rating/doing power strokes to balance the books. Still learning :) :fsbgrin:
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by spidermac »

Turning into a sprint monster Ian! :D
Legs a bit tired from skiing yesterday so went for mileage rather than speed!!!
3x15minR60s at various spm.
Wup - 1k
Time Dist spm HR split
05:00.0 1107 18 122 02:15.5
10:00.0 2246 20 131 02:13.5
R60s
15:00.0 3397 20 138 02:12.4
R60s
10:00.0 2303 20 145 02:10.2
05:00.0 1194 22 150 02:05.6
45:00.0 10246 20 137 02:11.7
CD - 1k
Started off feeling a bit tired but managed a good push on the last 5mins. :D
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Ian Bee »

Looks a good engine builder Spider =D>

Meanwhile, still labouring through the 500m training sessions:
IMG_20240215_113204.jpg
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It seems I always catch myself out in that there's no rest between the reps, but I pause anyway.....

By the stats, HR getting more controlled.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Ian Bee »

Really pleased to have reached the end of this week of 500m sessions, finishing with 2 minute at 2k pace, 2 minutes active recovery:
20240216_102444~2.jpg
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Felt horrible, but slivers of improvement throughout. But under 2k in general (except for the penultimate rep....).
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by spidermac »

Nice +ve splitting Ian! Looks tuff.
Intention was a countdown 8...1minR60s starting at 20spm & increasing 2spm each round.
Wup - 2k
Time dist spm HR split
08:00.0 1819 20 136 02:11.9
07:00.0 1643 22 145 02:07.8
06:00.0 1438 24 150 02:05.1
05:00.0 1222 26 154 02:02.7 - HD on 28spm - coughing & lungs on fire :twisted:
27:40.2 6467 22 146 02:08.3
CD 2k
A bit too ambitious maybe in first 2 rounds but breathing still not back to normal after 6 weeks!!!! :twisted: :twisted: Think I will have to forget any fast intervals till back on a more regular rowing schedule after the ski season & just tick over!!! :(
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Iain »

Great to see the training above, impressed that Ian has kept such a constant training load up and embarrassed at my long break. Struggling after my break, so despite 2 days off decided on 10 min r 0 LSD. Despite elevated HR, my ego would not accept >2:30 splits, so result:

Time Distance Rate Split Max HR %max Min %max
10:00.0 2,004 15 02:29.7 156 84.8% 106 57.6%
10:00.0 2,003 15 02:29.8 163 88.6% 156 84.8%
10:00.0 2,008 15 02:29.4 167 90.8% 160 87.0%
10:00.0 2,042 17 02:26.9 175 95.1% 165 89.7%

A long way to go and not looking forward to CTC!

Wondered whether anyone else watches HR on the recovery? I know that there is hysterises as the dehydration and recovery from the harder work raises HR on the recovery, but in modest temperature and after only 45' of moderate work, I was surprised that HR settled at 93% of max at 2:30 and even at 2:45 only got down to 85.7%! What do others find?
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by spidermac »

Hi Iain great to see u back. I am in a similar situation to yourself chasing lost fitness due to various ailments.
Re recovery HR do u mean post wout or during interval sessions? I do usually monitor it on PP intervals & find if MY HR doesn`t come down below 120 ( approx 70%MHR) I am probably going to struggle with the next interval!!
Keep on keeping on!
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Ian Bee »

Hi Iain, similar to Spider - I'll look for my HR to trend back towards either aerobic or threshold range (depending on the length of break) but really looking for aerobic on the cool down (so within 5-10 minutes of the end of the main session).
I'm definitely not as sensible as Spider though in recognising if I'm going to HD.....

In any case, you'll get back in the groove before you know it
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Iain »

THanks for the responses, My HR usually drops quite rapidly (although with 1 min rest on short intervals I have started at 80% plus and finished on occasions while H/D frequently when starting below 120!

No, I was meaning when rowing on after the main piece following an "easier" session, I usually set as intervals with 0 rest and start one or more additional intervals for the cool down. Hence the pace at which HR settled to the amounts mentioned in my questions above.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Ian Bee »

This may help Iain:

Today's session was a hard pace HM (if not for an IT failure 2/3 of the way through, a PB may have been on the cards)
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Not remotely comfortable, but not much HR drift so about right for a hard pace for me.

Within 2 minutes, HR trace for the cooldown was:
IMG_20240219_092927.jpg
IMG_20240219_092927.jpg (61.42 KiB) Viewed 603 times
Which is firmly aerobic, trending towards resting.

Now I need to just forget about those 2 measly seconds I lost.....
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Iain »

Thanks Ian, and what pace was the majority of the cool down?
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Ian Bee »

Iain wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2024 12:14 pm Thanks Ian, and what pace was the majority of the cool down?
Sorry - that would have been helpful: 2:20 ish, no focus on rate but I tend to fall in to 23-25 spm.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by spidermac »

First double training session in a long while.
am - climbing training (2.5hrs)
pm - 3x10minR30s at various spm courtesy of EM
wup - 1k
Time dist spm HR split
05:00.0 1120 20 133 02:13.9
05:00.0 1165 22 142 02:08.7

05:00.0 1184 22 150 02:06.6
05:00.0 1214 24 155 02:03.5

03:00.0 679 20 150 02:12.5
03:00.0 715 22 157 02:05.8
03:00.0 733 24 160 02:02.7
01:00.0 253 26 161 01:58.5
30:00.0 7061 22 151 02:07.4
CD - 1k
HR started pretty hi as only 2hrs between sessions, :shock: went pretty hard in R2 & had to concentrate to keep -ve split going in R3. Breathing felt better & felt ike a rower again for a fleeting moment!! :lol: :lol:
Iain FYI I usually write down my wout results (30secs or so) then do a cooldown dependng on how hard the wout was this is often a 1k average split at end is 2.25 - 2.28 at hr of around 125 (75%mhr) at 18-20spm, I start off probably in the low 2.30`s then as HR drops gradually increase to flush the muscles a bit!! Hope that helps. :D
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by JonT »

I did a completely bonkers ZoomErgos session yesterday. The basis was 3x8min 1:30r. Each 8 minutes was split into 5 mini intervals which combined 'base' rating and 'race' ratings with the ratio moving more towards race as the mini-intervals progressed. The base was at r20 and race at r26 in the first 8 minutes. In the second it was r22 and r28, and the final 8 minutes was r24 and r30. The structure was immensely complex, but the guy leading the session called the changes. I've never had 3x8min fly by so quickly. I would post the link to YouTube here, but for some reason ZoomErgos have allowed Goggle ads in the session which completely screws up the timing of the video compared to you monitor :roll:

Anyway, it was a challenging session that went quickly.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by spidermac »

A 30minR20 - probably should have done this yesterday after climbing!
Wup - 1k
Time Dist spm HR split
06:00.0 1333 20 125 02:15.0
06:00.0 1334 20 128 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 133 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 136 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 140 02:14.9
30:00.0 6666 20 132 02:15.0
CD -1k 2.24.8/18spm/121HR ( FYI Iain).
Felt yesterdays efforts.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Iain »

Thanks everyone. I have tended to do my cool downs the other way to Spider starting at a pace that keeps me working but at slower than a sustainable aerobic pace so that my blood flow remains high to flush out the metabolic products from the rest of the session, then I slow the pace in stages to end up very slow. My logic was to extend the training effect as well as clear my muscles and this dates back to me working up to ultra marathon fitness levels. So my lack of a significant drop in HR was at significantly harder effort levels than either of you used for your cool downs. That said at present my HR after 15 min cooldown was still 84% of max! I would hope that it will drop much quicker after a few weeks training.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Ian Bee »

Lots of training =D> =D> =D>

Interested to see how you get back towards your previous pace Iain - certainly warm up/cool down is probably something I've neglected to do particularly effectively or to a specific regime (rightly or wrongly, I judge on introspection and readiness).

A light HM today:
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Aside from the disconnect towards the end, all relatively to plan.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Frans Vliegenberg »

Yesterday I did intervals, and although I still felt it somewhat in my legs, today I still wanted to know how my half hour of rowing was going. So then the mind games started.
"oh, those legs are heavy, that won't work"
"Oh well, we'll see what happens"
around two km "hmm that's not too bad so far, the heart rate is not increasing excessively"
"Okay, I'm halfway now, I should be able to complete the 5k"
etc. It became an SB

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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by obirobsan »

Frans Vliegenberg wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2024 12:58 pm It became an SB
I love it when a plan comes together!
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Ian Bee »

Nice session Frans - impressive low rate :fssmile:
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Little bit heavy in the legs today, so happy with finishing this one with a sliver of improvement over last time through.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Iain »

Thanks Ian, will show my C/D stats in case you or anyone else is interested. Nice HM, don't think I have ever managed to see such a steady HR on any of mine. Even your sawtooth showed HR staying in Zone 4 =D> . Some time before I try one!

Frans, I was in a similar place performance wise 5 months ago before I got ill, but only a few kg lighter and 14 years younger. That said I rate lower and still have a poor stroke after nearly 21MM! Currently trying to get regular routine started before I regain Lwt status and increase pace to something where I can hear my erg singing again rather than groaning!

Decided to try a 10x1'r1' as a gentle restart of intervals and remember what 1' rest feels like before a feeble attempt at CTC hopefully this weekend. Looked back at my logbook and most restarts have included a coupe of over optimistic attempts at this session, so swallowed my pride and set 236M (2:07) as my initial target.

Tim Distnc Rate Split MaxHR % MinHR %
01:00.0 238 25 02:06.1 166 90.2% 109 59.2%
01:00.0 238 25 02:06.1 168 91.3% 137 74.5%
01:00.0 238 25 02:06.1 170 92.4% 140 76.1%
01:00.0 238 26 02:06.1 173 94.0% 142 77.2%
01:00.0 239 26 02:05.5 174 94.6% 145 78.8%
01:00.0 239 26 02:05.5 175 95.1% 143 77.7%
01:00.0 240 27 02:05.0 175 95.1% 148 80.4%
01:00.0 240 27 02:05.0 177 96.2% 149 81.0%
01:00.0 242 28 02:04.0 179 97.3% 149 81.0%
01:00.0 255 33 01:57.6 182 98.9% 153 83.2%
10:00 2,407 26.8 2:04.6 182 98.9%

So started 1S quicker than intended but managed to Neg split. The recovery I found shocking and explains why previous comebacks have failed. 75% HRmax on second interval when only at R25 says it all. Disappointed with my worst distance in last interval by 6M despite more conservative approach, but as starting >80% HRMax, I guess that this was never going to be as normal. Still beat 2:05 pace average (AKA 4M/S) that was what I hoped for.
"Cool Down"
05:00.0 1,062 22 02:21.2 169 91.8% 118 64.1%
05:00.0 1,016 19 02:27.6 168 91.3% 163 88.6%
05:00.0 977 17 02:33.5 165 89.7% 160 87.0%
05:00.0 899 15 02:46.9 161 87.5% 141 76.6%

Shows what I was saying (although this was 5min after the intervals rather than straight away). HR recovers when not working fine, but very modest rowing holds it up around AT.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Ian Bee »

Iain - 10x1'r1 is a tough interval set. Personally, I find the shorter rest periods very difficult to adjust to (and show only minor HR recovery if the pace is anywhere near my version of fast).

Today:
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Really mentally taxing to convince myself to not HD on several occasions. Generally a tiny amount faster than last time through (total time 1:26:26), and an acceptable HR drift throughout.

My Garmin had a funny turn so I've no idea what my cool down looked like but I was back to near resting 10 minutes after the session.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Ian Bee »

Closing out my cardio week:
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Oh so close to being a proper aerobic piece :roll:
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Iain »

Ian, I would chalk it up as one given flat HR after the first 20 min. some take 75% as the cut off anyway. I love the way that you categorise a week of HMs as simply "cardio week", for most of us it would be an endurance challenge!
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Iain »

Failed on a CTC attempt this morning. Really not sure what to pace the 200s at!

Tim Distnc Rate Split MaxHR % MinHR %
6:31.8 1500 24 02:10.6 178 96.7% 118 64.1% - Felt fine, holding back for most at R23, surprised HR so high.
00:48.7 200 30 02:01.8 177 96.2% 151 82.1% - Weak start, clearly 1500 has left its mark
00:47.6 200 33 01:59.0 178 96.7% 149 81.0% - Felt better although recovery not obvious in HR
00:47.6 200 33 01:59.0 176 95.7% 151 82.1% - Faster start, more consistent
00:38.6 132 25 02:26.2 170 92.4% 151 82.1% - Legs went numb and H/D

Gave myself 5 and then did a grey session finishing quicker to simulate end of final 1500 (although no sprint)

05:00.0 1013 17 02:28.1 159 86.4% 117 63.6%
05:00.0 1015 16 02:27.8 164 89.1% 158 85.9%
05:00.0 1018 17 02:27.3 165 89.7% 162 88.0%
05:00.0 1020 17 02:27.1 168 91.3% 165 89.7%
05:00.0 1024 17 02:26.5 170 92.4% 166 90.2%
05:00.0 1114 22 02:14.6 182 98.9% 168 91.3%
04:57.8 962 16 02:34.8 180 97.8% 156 84.8%

So should be able to get it done, but not sure on pace for 200s.
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