what training have free spirits been doing today?

[Iain]

Mat, thanks for keeping the thread going despite your lethargy. I like that you casually mention a full Hyrox run through! That would be a great achievement to most of us!

Ian, good sessions there, I would have been annoyed at the extra secs on the 5k sectors as otherwise equal distances, a great achievement at that pace.

Spider, good 40' OCD and power strokes. Unlike Mat, I try and time my strokes with the clock. Usually pull second stroke a little early and take a couple of secs to settle to the right pace.

Saturday for me I forgot to set the monitor so did on "Just Row". Intended to do 2hrs so tried to time the first 20', then nature called so split into 2 hrs and the slowing to try and hit target looked wierd, so tried to neg split second set but messed up second. Pleased at stronger stroke 'though although weakening by the end.

Sunday standard 90' UT1, missing 1M. Then this morning didn't know what to do. Settled on grey 4,3,2,1k, intending to start at 2:09, but felt fresher than expected so went faster and quickly realised neg splitting not an option. So did a bit more SS. Day off tomorrow so took it back up at end.

Time Distnc Rate Pace Hrmax % HRmin %
10:00 2,109 15 02:22.2 130 70.7% 087 47.3%
10:00 2,098 15 02:23.0 138 75.0% 128 69.6%
10:00 2,104 16 02:22.6 141 76.6% 134 72.8%
10:00 2,106 16 02:22.5 142 77.2% 137 74.5%
10:00 2,104 16 02:22.6 142 77.2% 135 73.4%
10:00 2,104 16 02:22.6 143 77.7% 135 73.4% - break
10:00 2,109 15 02:22.2 137 74.5% 090 48.9%
10:00 2,108 15 02:22.3 140 76.1% 134 72.8% - hit target, underestimated previous interval
10:00 2,111 16 02:22.1 145 78.8% 138 75.0%
10:00 2,115 16 02:21.8 147 79.9% 141 76.6%
10:00 2,121 17 02:21.4 151 82.1% 142 77.2% - stroke weakening
10:00 2,172 17 02:18.1 155 84.2% 148 80.4%
2:00 25359 15.8 2:22.0 155 84.2%

15:00 3,331 19 02:15.1 146 79.3% 088 47.8%
15:00 3,331 19 02:15.1 151 82.1% 135 73.4%
15:00 3,330 19 02:15.1 154 83.7% 148 80.4% - Doh
15:00 3,331 19 02:15.1 155 84.2% 150 81.5%
15:00 3,331 19 02:15.1 156 84.8% 151 82.1%
15:00 3,331 19 02:15.1 156 84.8% 152 82.6%
1:30 19979 19.0 2:15.1 156 84.8%

16:44.3 4,000 25 02:05.5 166 90.2% 089 48.4% - 2:06.3 R23/4 in first half, weakening

15:00 3,331 20 02:15.1 153 83.2% 101 54.9% - intended just one UT1
15:00 3,330 19 02:15.1 155 84.2% 149 81.0% - added second for rest of intended session
15:00 3,151 17 02:22.8 147 79.9% 141 76.6% - normal UT2, struggling to keep pace down
15:00 3,254 18 02:18.3 153 83.2% 140 76.1% - rowed by feel.
1:00 13065 18.5 2:17.8 155 84.2%

[Ian Bee]

Mat – it bears emphasis that for the majority around, 1:15s at 25spm is not steady Hugely impressive HR recovery. I’ve never attempted skierg (and in case Mrs B is listening, I have no intention of seeking one out), but my lower back is sympathising from a distance. Nice sessions!

Spider – I have similarly struggled with power strokes and in repeated sessions knowing where the improvement in pace (if any) is coming from. Not a favourite of mine, and in my mind (and physical reality) the variations in power don’t necessarily work.

Iain – great volume and pace at low SPM. I’ve been attempting to get some 15 spm sessions in to built that part of my CV up, but nothing like on that scale. I seem to naturally fall to 16spm, so will see how I get on with a couple more sessions to compare

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Straight forward start to the week with a satisfying improvement to last time through. Happy with the flat HR level and, accepting 2 minutes isn't particularly long for settling, a reasonable level of recovery.
I now have half an eye towards one month ahead when I will have a full 12 week sequence to start comparing various points in the cycle of sessions which appeals immensely to my statistical brain.

[Iain]

Ian, Huge improvement in pace over last time at same HR

[Emander]

I tried some rowing after I developed some rib pain during fridays session, so I'll put the rowing aside for a bit in hope that it is a muscle strain that will improve with some rest.

[Iain]

Eric, worth a try, but may not be what it seems. I used to get a recurring pain that felt like a thoracic rib on one side of my back. It would fade after a weak of inactivity, but come back when I increased the volume. A physio eventually diagnosed it as a stiff fascia joint and healed it in 20 mins of deep manipulation. It hasn't recurred since I started stretching my head to my knees after every session.

Hope you find a rapid solution.

[Emander]

Thanks Iain, I'll keep it in mind and remember to add some stretching when I'm back to rowing. I hope it just is an effect of averaging 40k per week instead of perhaps 30k previous year. I dusted off the trainer for the bike and set it up so I can keep busy in any case though I find it nicer to do rowing sessions during autumn and winter months.

[Ian Bee]

That brings back memories of a rib injury I had a few years back. Could have been muscle or stress to ribs etc. I do agree that stretches and thorough warm ups have meant that I haven't had a reoccurrence since....

Nasty session:

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Not an enjoyable session - I recall a Rowalong workout with a general description along the lines of: you'll think you can't sustain the pace, but if you focus you will. And that's roughly how this went. For the 5k reps, the first minute went past quite easily and raised my confidence. Minutes 2-3 then made my confidence wobble. By the time I was halfway, I was playing games of: there's only 4 minutes left (maths not being a priority when rowing). Once I could see there was only 2 minutes left I was then just focused on the imminent relief of a slower pace. And so it continued.

Positive result for a slightly lower HR vs last time through, though Ergzone clearly has a similar issue with maths as my average pace last time (for a lower distance) was faster than today

[Iain]

Ian, great session, 4 x 2.34k is a tough session at 5k pace. Particularly impressed at how low your HR stayed in the first 2 and that you maintained a higher FM pace as well!

Couldn't see the previous session you referred to. the only similar session I found was 1/10 when you were slower and the average shown was higher.

[ArenT]

Well as noted, there is so much activity on this thread of late that there is too much to comment on individually in detail, which is a great thing.



Mat, I find the Ski Erg probably more psychologically difficult than the other machines, simply because you don't have the benefit of a comfortable "stationary" position, since your head/upper body is constantly oscillating up and down. Otherwise, it offers a nice balance to the RowErg. Ian Bee, incidentally, I'd say the Ski Erg is actually very gentle on your lower back, since the machine is much more anterior chain orientated than say the RowErg. So in this respect is a good option if you're sore from a heavy rowing session. Instead what you find is that longer sessions are quite tough on your hands, and can be challenging on calves too if you extend onto the toes for extra leverage each rep. But like with any C2 machine, it truly is whole-body.

Update on training from last few days.

Friday 25th

- BikeErg "Long" WOD. This was 6x4000m/2 mins easy with cadence change every 1000m (85/95/85/95). After the first interval, I did the rest at more-or-less ~170W for the 85rpm sections and then up to near FTP at about ~250W for the 95rpm sections. Enjoyable workout, not too difficult given the plenty of rest involved. (First screenshot). Mostly Z2/Z3 (mid to upper UT2).

Saturday 26th

- Steady 2x6km UT2 workout, once again aiming for 80%/i.e. 167 watts at ~20spm, i.e. 2:08/500m. (Second screenshot)

Sunday 27th

- Decided to deviate from plan. After a nice afternoon walk and cake with my other half, decided to just do an easy endurance piece/marathon on BikeErg. 42195m on BikeErg is a much easier proposition than the RowErg, as it is easier to get comfortable in a gentle rhythm on a bike versus rower. Anyway, kep this at low Zone 2/UT2-UT3. This workout was mainly just a calorie/cake-burner and just to keep the progress going, as I felt a bit fatigued and knew this would not be too taxing yet still keep a good training volume going.

Monday 28th

- Rest day

Weighed myself. Down to 76.4kg, so inching toward lightweight/back to the correct bodyweight... I think the lower cadence/higher peak forces involved in rowing are different (in a good way) to cycling, as I feel like I'm heading back into very good physical condition, yet notice that, e.g., my thigh thickness/size is larger than when I just predominantly cycled a lot. This would make sense, as though rowing is still very much an endurance activity (or usually is, unless you only do 250m sprints or something), it is also akin to constantly doing hundreds/thousands of lower-weight "deadlifts", in effect. A rowing workout is pretty much basically just an extended set of horizontal deadlifts + pulls/rows, in a way, but without the DOMS-inducing eccentric phase.


Plan tonight is an easy Z2 workout after rest day, then taxing/intense session tomorrow.

[ArenT]

And to bring everything up to date:

Tuesday 29th

- Steady state UT2 row as below. Target was 169W or 2:07.5 @ 19-20 SPM for the main 00:40:00 interval, and pretty much OCD hit that.

[ArenT]

15:00 3,331 19 02:15.1 146 79.3% 088 47.8%
15:00 3,331 19 02:15.1 151 82.1% 135 73.4%
15:00 3,330 19 02:15.1 154 83.7% 148 80.4% - Doh
15:00 3,331 19 02:15.1 155 84.2% 150 81.5%
15:00 3,331 19 02:15.1 156 84.8% 151 82.1%
15:00 3,331 19 02:15.1 156 84.8% 152 82.6%
1:30 19979 19.0 2:15.1 156 84.8%

So close to numerical perfection! Quite an art in precision rowing.

I could imagine someone could design a very cruel monthly CTC (perhaps there has been such a one in the past...?) where victory is not determined by who can push out the most watts/best pace/highest raw output, but the one who can deliver the most perfect meterage/stroke rate, and if you went over by 1m, it would mean you score 0... Imagine having to do it all again if you missed out by 1m!

[Ian Bee]

Nice series of sessions Aren. Have you thought about dividing up your main rep to several splits? - I find it both motivating and sense check.

Today's session:

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The marathon reps were pretty much on target and the entire session was within the suggested range of 80-90%. Not easy, but 20spm for marathon pace is starting to flow a little better.
I was intentionally cautious about what should have been the 10k pace rep as it still has a psychological block on me. There's not much immediately available to push the pace (certainly not within the HR limits), but progress nonetheless

[Iain]

Nice consistent base building Aren. I must admit it seems strange to do a warm up that goes to a much higher HR than the main session.

Ian, 23' at 10k pace is a lot, so definite signs of improvement there. Not sure of the logic of R20 for FM pace, Mike's chart of suggested rates would suggest most use a higher rating, but good training none the less.

Bailed on another 4-1k effort today. Rather than doing the 2k & 1k faster, I did a moderate 15' instead. Unusual session where held at AT.

Time Distnc Rate Pace Hrmax % HRmin %
17:01.3 4,000 23 02:07.7 159 86.4% 083 45.1% - started easy, but from before 1/2 way rate crept up to 25/6 so concentrating on maintaining power
12:32.0 3,000 25 02:05.3 166 90.2% 109 59.2% - not hideous, but no motivation for pushing 2:04s on the 2k
15:00.0 3,573 24 02:05.9 166 90.2%
44:33.3 10573 23.9 2:06.4 166 90.2%

[spidermac]

Ian nice splits at those HR`s.
Ian always hard to regain motivation after failing on a session so well done on getting something done.
Hi RHR today dictated no fast intervals so a 60minR20. Last time was 2.14.9/149HR
Wup - 1k
time dist spm HR split
06:00.0 1334 20 137 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 139 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 141 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 143 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 146 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 146 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 148 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 147 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 148 02:14.9
06:00.0 1333 20 146 02:15.0
01:00:00 13330 20 144 02:15.0
CD - 1k
Never felt under pressure a fairly relaxed row for a change!. Missed the OCD at the end.

[Iain]

Spider, well done on completing a full hour when RHR elevated and didn't go up too high!

[Mat]

I’m humbled by the volume of training in recent days (in a week that I baled on a 3x12’ piece )

Awesome training all round

Odd day for me today. Set up my 3x6’ session this morning and first interval went well, except I could feel as soon as the 2’ rest began that I’d triggered a mild AF episode. You can see the HR ramp up during the rest period (a high HR indicated on the monitor is just a sign, the real issue is the erratic HR)

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So, I immediately stopped to allow the heart to settle. Later in the day, all felt okay so I gave it another shot and after a controlled first interval, I was really happy to get to the end without any further issues

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[Ian Bee]

Iain - Tako has mentioned something similar previously, so I may well moderate rating sooner or later. Well recovered on your session

Spider - oh so close!!!!!

Mat - well done on listening to the sensible voice and returning to hit your mark.

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Didn't feel rested this morning so I'm satisfied with this result. The trace shows the battle to maintain the targets required , but safely within HR limits. I very slight improvement in pace from last time too - future me beware

[ArenT]

I must admit it seems strange to do a warm up that goes to a much higher HR than the main session.

Indeed, it is an unconventional warm-up strategy. I assume the motivation is to actually improve lactate [re-]cycling/tolerance even on the easier otherwise low-ish intensity days, by forcing your body to deal with the brief surge during the initial few minutes of the main piece where you have settled into a much lower intensity/steadier effort.

In theory the additional training stress/load is probably fairly negligible, as the tail-end of the "warm-up" spike is not really anaerobic, and it is short in duration, and it presumably improves your body's metabolic efficiency on the longer pieces.

It does run counter to one's natural inclination to just have a "gentle" warm-up. Regardless, it seems to be effective based on my improvements.

Have you thought about dividing up your main rep to several splits? - I find it both motivating and sense check.

That's probably a good idea, as 40 minutes split into 8 back-to-back 5 minute splits is probably more interesting/less monotonous, and I suppose also forces you to be even more precise when it comes to rating/pacing etc., as you have less latitude for deviation/correction given the shorter durations.

---

So today, although I recovered pretty well from yesterday's CTC, I was pretty tired, mainly due to a very late work night and therefore very late getting to sleep etc. Therefore felt like a) low intensity, and b) freedom from any particular "targets". Anyway, got a nice surprise when I opened up TrainingPeaks, which I've bought premium for. The subscription now includes "TrainingPeaks Virtual", basically rebranded IndieRide, which is essentially a Zwift etc. clone. Anyway, I certainly have no interest in paying £15/month for Zwift etc given I only use the BikeErg 1-2 week, since I'm trying to put most of the focus on the RowErg, but since I get this for "free" (will see how it impacts future annual subscription rates...), seemed like a perfect opportunity to install it on my iPad and just go for a free spin on the BikeErg. The big difference, unlike say EXR Rowing, is there was plenty of life/activity going on, with lots of others online and the game simulates drafting physics similar to riding on a real bike with others - when I tried EXR Rowing, even at what I would consider "peak" time, of UK evening 6-8PM, was hardly anyone around, and nice as it is, the pretty graphics don't really add that much to the experience when you're plodding on by yourself, so I figured my money was far better spent on ErgZone with its plethora of useful training/programming options. (I guess maybe the £10/month (since that way with the couple's membership my wife can also use it) might be worth it for EXR Rowing if you've built up some online rowing friends who typically train at the same time of day and crucially are pretty close in overall output to you (since you have no "drafting" in online rowing)).

Anyway, great addition to TP if it continues to be at no additional cost over-and-above the existing subscription, and whilst I'm still a fan of raw numbers/graphs for "serious" training (e.g. using ErgZone or TrainerDay), this is perfect for unstructured workouts where the objective is mainly about healthy Z2 and burning some calories. Ended up spinning away for an hour pleasantly distracted, never pushing above an easy rate. So this was equivalent to an easy UT3 steady row, nice meters in the bank.

Have a fairly challenging row planned tomorrow if I get a good night's sleep and feel well recovered.


BikeErg:

Code: Select all

Time       Meters  Pace    Watts   Cal/Hr  RPM     HR
1:11:00.3  33,268m 2:08.0  167     873     84      130
10:00.0    4,210m  2:22.5  121     716     79      118
20:00.0    4,785m  2:05.3  178     910     85      130
30:00.0    4,814m  2:04.6  181     922     85      137
40:00.0    4,850m  2:03.7  185     936     83      139
50:00.0    4,774m  2:05.6  176     906     87      138
1:00:00.0  4,791m  2:05.2  178     913     86      141
1:10:00.0  4,734m  2:06.7  172     891     85      136
1:11:00.3  310m    3:14.5  48      463     68      105

[Mat]

Really well executed session Ian, with consistent pace in each of the corresponding intervals, and that nice improvement in pace to boot

Aren, whilst I don’t do many long sessions these days, I’d echo the recommendation of splitting up the sessions into shorter splits. It keeps you honest in pacing, but just be ware of the temptation to chase negative splits throughout!
I can’t really offer much insight on software. I used TP briefly whilst running, but didn’t find that it added much (I think it really helps if you’re working with a coach, but I never have), and so just used Strava to document my training. Now it’s just Ergzone for me, together with Zwift for riding

6x2’r2’ today. I’d intended a steady session starting at 1:45 and only slightly negatively splitting. Went a bit too fast on the fourth interval and thought I’d peaked too early, but pleased to get through with continued negative splits

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Followed up with a 3x2’ on the ski erg

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[spidermac]

House full of guests so escaped to the garage to do some erging!!
5/4/3/2/1k with 90s rest at increasing spm.
Wup - 1k
Time dist spm HR split Prev
21:46.2 5000 18 164 02:10.6 (2.10.3)
17:07.5 4000 20 167 02:08.4 (2.11.1)
12:40.9 3000 22 167 02:06.8 (2.09.0)
08:19.2 2000 24 166 02:04.8 (2.07.7)
04:02.7 1000 26 167 02:01.3 (2.04.7)
01:03:56 15000 20 166 02:07.8 (2.09.5)
CD - 1k
Happy with that last two times I went too fast on the 5k & had to slow down ; this time kept the -ve split & improved splits. Best this year for this session is 2.06.5 so getting back to a bit of form.

[Mat]

Really nice session Spider, and clearly a well executed escape from the guests

3x12’ for me this morning, and after several weeks of either mitigating the challenge with an R20 in the middle interval, or baling out completely on the last, I set a reasonable pace and went through all three at free rate to set myself a nice marker for next time

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[Ian Bee]

Spider - impressive push pace. Sustaining the HR is a good sign.

Mat - going through something similar. I feel having a legitimate score on the boards to aim at is a huge positive.

Aren - I thinned out my sub selection a while ago and settled with just Ergzone for the stats and value for programming. Nice bike session and retrospective good luck for the weekend session.

Easy start to the week:

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Didn't expect the lower HR but, in reality, the pace was a bit soft. A few spikes here or there as for IT reasons I couldn't see my Ergzone screen so got over excited about pace from time to time. However, in line with the above, it's a run through at the correct spm/HR cap so will serve well for next time.

[ArenT]

Strong 3x12' session there Mat, pretty rapid pace for that duration.

Ian B., Looks like a pace you could sustain for quite an extended effort if need be, which I guess is what you're aiming toward with your ultra-events/future torture planned.

I thinned out my sub selection a while ago and settled with just Ergzone

Yes, ErgZone is a great option for Concept2 users. As someone remarked, in some ways, it is the app that Concept2 themselves should have produced. The ability to program workouts with intensity set either as relative offsets against any of the standard benchmarks (500m, 1000m, 2000m, 6000m etc.), AND per equipment (RowErg, BikeErg, SkiErg) AND as percentages of defined FTP values makes it by far the best option for programming serious training blocks, as you don't need to keep amending a workout in order for the intensity level to stay correct with gains (or losses) in fitness.

For me Training Peaks is worth the money as well, I still prefer it versus all of the other paid or free serious training load/planning options, especially the quality of the app. The fact that it now basially includes its own "Zwift" makes it even better VFM. Garmin's own application should really be much more like Training Peaks. I probably don't need TrainerDay now, good as it is, since I literally don't have the training hours to split between them all, and am trying to have RowErg now comprise close to 50% of my training. I wouldn't have bought the annual had Training Peaks Virtual been announced at the time.

Something always gets pushed out though. The thing that has been pushed out in recent months is trail running, have done very little recently. I should try to fit in one session a fortnight at least, especially as weather has actually been pretty good recently. Have done plenty of walking though for fresh air and nature.

Last few days have been a very satisfying set of sessions.

Friday 1st November

RowErg

- 3 x 10 minutes

Target was around threshold/sub-threshold, target was 194W / 201.7 split, nailed this and actually felt pretty comfortable. Could probably bump pace/watts up a little and still be in target intensity zone.

(first screenshot)

Saturday 2nd November

RowErg

- 6 x 3 minutes

Target high threshold. Managed an almost "OCD" set of intervals, especially second half, so very happy.

(second screenshot)

Sunday 3rd November

SkiErg

- 8 x 2500m.

Target near FTP at 162W and about 44-45 stroke rate. This was a tough workout on the SkiErg, was a real strength endurance/fatigue resistance challenge trying to maintain the target pace and a consistent stroke rate. I felt pretty good for the first 3, 4th started to feeel the fatigue accumulating, and last couple were a real challenge. You can see the obvious depletion in the HR drift, particularly pronounced in the latter three. This was around the 80-90 minutes mark, so the cumulative time at near FTP worked its toll.

My index fingers took a bit of a beating/couple of minor blister hotspots, but otherwise, the SkiErg is quite a benign option in terms of lots of training stress but low muscular soreness on day after.

(third screenshot)

Monday 4th

BikeErg

- Easy 35 minute Z1 active recovery ride on TP Virtual.

Target was about 130-150W, heart rate never went above 130bpm, extremely easy steady state. Nothing interesting to show on a graph/trace here.

----

Tough tabata style RowErg workout planned for tomorrow (Tuesday 5th).

----

Screenshots:

[Ian Bee]

Nice series of sessions Aren. Good luck for your tabata - I've never quite managed to get the timing right for those.

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Considering the cooler weather, a decent session. 5k reps are getting more and more comfortable so there's a challenge upcoming for a little.push on pace.

[spidermac]

Crankin out the wouts Mr Bee - very impressive.
Mat well done on completing your 3x12 - always intimidating redoing a session u have failed on!
ArenT - don`t fancy your warm up I don`t think my HR would settle back down very fast.
New one for me today - 3x20minR60s @ 18/20/22spm
Wup - 1k
Time dist spm HR split
20:00.0 4465 18 0 02:14.3
20:00.0 4565 20 0 02:11.4
20:00.0 4689 22 0 02:07.9
01:00:00 13720 20 0 02:11.1
CD - 1k
20mins is a lonnnngg interval. Bit of a grey zone/UT1 wout I think but HR monitor playing up as usual so no HR data . Pushed it a bit in the last interval.