what training have free spirits been doing today?

[spidermac]

Finally got the sprint monkey off my back!! EM wout 2 rounds of 30son/30soff upping spm every 2 sets.
Wup - 3k
Time dist spm HR split
00:30.0 126 26 140 01:59.0 - standing start
00:30.0 132 26 156 01:53.6
00:30.0 135 28 159 01:51.1
00:30.0 136 28 162 01:50.2
00:30.0 138 30 165 01:48.6
00:30.0 139 30 166 01:47.9
00:30.0 139 32 166 01:47.9
00:30.0 141 32 167 01:46.3
00:30.0 142 34 169 01:45.6
00:30.0 144 36 169 01:44.1
R 4.30
00:30.0 136 28 153 01:50.2
00:30.0 138 30 162 01:48.6
00:30.0 139 30 166 01:47.9
00:30.0 140 32 168 01:47.1
00:30.0 141 32 171 01:46.3
00:30.0 142 34 170 01:45.6
00:30.0 142 36 171 01:45.6
00:30.0 142 36 170 01:45.6
00:30.0 142 36 170 01:45.6
00:30.0 143 36 169 01:44.8
10:00.0 2775 31 164 01:48.1
CD - 2k
Did this back in June pre treatment av was 1.47.6 so not too far off but HR was 155! Missed target spm a few times in 2nd round but not too bothered. Lost form a bit in the last few sets. Happy to do something a bit faster & higher spm.

[Iain]

Eric, good to see a longer continuous piece.

Aren, probably me, but confused by your stats. Am I right thinking the paces shown are the targets so you need to adjust for the actual? Good to get a good session in at a low HR. Interested to know how you find cycling and rowing performances correspond.

Spider, impressive session, I hate 30S rests with a passion as no strength to get going for next interval! Impressive result as well.

After my late long interval session Monday evening at lower rating, decided to double up 34 hours later with a "strength" session of 12 x 100m r1' at 10M/Stroke. Last time done after 624M CTC, so should go significantly faster than the 1:46.3 managed in June. Strangely did 10 x 20S r1' at the same average 2 months ago. Happy with the result. Used DF 135 as this felt unusably high in warm up and really poor first strokes shooting slide and hauling anchor!

Time Distnc Rating Pace Hrmax % HRmin %
0:21.4 100 28.0 01:47.0 127 69.0% 088 47.8%
0:21.2 100 28.3 01:46.0 145 78.8% 104 56.5%
0:21.1 100 28.4 01:45.5 145 78.8% 107 58.2%
0:20.7 100 29.0 01:43.5 153 83.2% 113 61.4%
0:20.8 100 28.8 01:44.0 155 84.2% 107 58.2%
0:20.8 100 28.8 01:44.0 158 85.9% 117 63.6%
0:20.5 100 29.3 01:42.5 159 86.4% 121 65.8% - not sure why quicker!
0:20.8 100 28.8 01:44.0 158 85.9% 121 65.8%
0:20.8 100 28.8 01:44.0 158 85.9% 118 64.1%
0:20.8 100 28.8 01:44.0 160 87.0% 123 66.8%
0:20.7 100 29.0 01:43.5 160 87.0% 121 65.8%
0:20.9 100 28.7 01:44.5 162 88.0% 118 64.1% - finished off seat
4:10.5 1200 28.7 1:44.4 162 88.0%

[Ian Bee]

Monstrous sprinting Iain and Spider - great results I agree that shorter rests make it all thr more difficult to pick up again (and time stroke 1 of the next rep).

Aren - nice session. Do you have target paces in mind - 500m reps ahead of 40 minutes is quite a combination

Slack session for me:

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Scaled back my targets from last run through given the intensity of yesterday but a decent session to push CV gently. 2 minutes rest feels like it should be nice, but after a brief hand readjustment it scarcely counts

Iain - I would leave the red/green arrows in my Ergzone grabs but I find them unhelpful - in pace red means you're over your target while red in pace means slower than target.

[Iain]

Thanks Ian, looks like a good session with the grey 17' followed by UT1 interval.

My session was far from sprinting as done at comparatively low rate for 100m.

It wasn't the arrows that confused me, it was that the paces shown are the targets and so to understand the session you have to adjust by the arrows first.

[ArenT]

Aha! I hadn't realised/twigged until this conversation that the display of the splits prior to screenshot would be configurable in ErgZone, but then realised after a few seconds reflection it must surely be (especially given Ian's screenshots, etc.), so cue some finger tapping around and realised that tapping on the /500m column first row, does indeed toggle the units, including, in particular, the display of actual /500m splits versus the "target + arrow" /500m spilts variant.

Iain, as Ian has noted, red arrow + small numbers mean you were slower than target by that amount, i.e. so target time + offset amount, green arrow faster than, so target time - offset.

Do you have target paces in mind - 500m reps ahead of 40 minutes is quite a combination

Yes. I'm actually broadly following a 10km piece training plan, plus my own additions/augmentations for extra volume/other exercise on top.

One of the things it features is this rather nasty ramped 500m "warm-up" start to each workout, i.e. so even if the workout is an easy UT2 effort, it still has this short ramp meaning that by the 4th 500m you're rowing at your all-out 2K pace. I guess the idea is to have a very short spike in intensity, meaning that it is sufficiently short that it isn't actually that taxing, but does a good job of "waking up" your CNS. Sometimes I don't like quite such an aggressive warm-up, or I'm busy still fiddling with drinks and getting into position etc., so I'll happily deviate as needed during the warm-up phase (particularly the last 500m) so that I'm actually properly set/prepared for the main work piece.

So you will probably notice somewhat often some spikes/brief drops near the end of the ramp before the main workout begins, and that's me using the warm-up to just get settled without worrying about targets (since it is the targets in the main piece I care about!).

The 40 minute UT2 piece I was aiming for about 2:10 or thereabouts, which I hit once you subtract the two brief 30 second stops etc. for drink. I tend to deliberately ramp up my ErgZone benchmarks just slighly ahead/aggressive, though actually, I'm pretty certain I could beat the 7:30 2K benchmark I currently have configured in an all-out test. I suppose I should grit my teeth and do one in the not too distant future... but you can get a very close idea based on your aggregate performances/efforts on lots of sub-maximal pacing efforts.


---

My prediction/prior knowledge of my own body proved correct once more, namely, the lethargy/poor feeling after the rest day translated into feeling on top-form the day after. In other words, "rest day + first day after easy/poor = second day great" is my formula. Extremely happy with today's workout (Wednesday 23rd), absolutely nailed my intended/exact target with a 10x1000m r 2' AT workout. Recovery between intervals felt very good and had minimal HR drift.

Not quite up in the class of an "OCD" workout, i.e. couldn't match spidemac's precision of +/- 0.1 on intevals, but pretty close, and 25 spm was almost perfect across them all.

Anyway, cue an ErgZone screenshot without confusing arrow-business going on

[Emander]

I guess technically this yesterdays training, but it was another day with som steady work.

time dst pace W cal spm hr
45:00.0 9,325m 2:24.7 115 696 18 129
5:00.0 1,036m 2:24.7 115 696 19 121
10:00.0 1,038m 2:24.5 116 699 18 125
15:00.0 1,036m 2:24.7 115 696 18 126
20:00.0 1,036m 2:24.7 115 696 18 130
25:00.0 1,036m 2:24.7 115 696 18 129
30:00.0 1,034m 2:25.0 115 694 19 131
35:00.0 1,036m 2:24.7 115 696 19 131
40:00.0 1,036m 2:24.7 115 696 19 134
45:00.0 1,036m 2:24.7 115 696 19 137

[Iain]

Aren, I find that I perform better after a day off, although sometimes I feel sluggish during the warm up, the performance on the main piece is better. Good 10x1k, nasty looking session that I don't think I have ever done. That said, I don't think I have ever kept HR down below 80% on intervals and currently maintaining R25 would push me well into AT. Well done for keeping it so even. Personally 500m seems a long "ramp" on a warm up, I use 30" or sometimes 1'. Anything that gets the HR up and starts the sweat flowing should do.

Eric, good consistent workout.

[ArenT]

Personally 500m seems a long "ramp" on a warm up, I use 30" or sometimes 1'. Anything that gets the HR up and starts the sweat flowing should do.

Indeed, you might well be right. It's good to play around with things. My natural inclination is similar to yours, or indeed just to have a quite gentle warmup. But this program has these, so thought I'd follow it and see how it works out. Despite a few minor issues, however, it does seem an effective program. It has more interval work than I was expecting, but that is probably a good thing for me, as left to my own devices I tend to favour long steadier "mainly aerobic" pieces, so it is probably a useful corrective.

---


Felt great again today, and had an almost perfect workout completely in the zone/on target.

My objective/target was precisely 80% of rowing FTP for 50 minutes for UT2, which for me corresponded to 167W or 2:08.1/500m pace. SPM target was 18-20, so I perhaps still need to work on just fractionally edging that lower, as I ended up at 21 average overall. The trickiest part of the workout was trying to prevent the stroke rate going up. I was targeting around 8.0 SPI to hit the relevant numbers.

I'm going to start programming all of my future workouts as % factors against rowing FTP (even if that means first converting from 2k +/- split pacings), as for me, it makes far more physiological sense (and even more so give my cycling background). Nevertheless, I always also study the /500m split equivalents, and have both numbers up on screen, so over time I'm hoping that I basically almost completely internalise a mental translation from one to the other.

Given that pace correlates as the cube root of power, using pace targets by themselves, as is common, is quite a "lumpy" scale, especially since it starts getting tricky to be precise to +/- 0.5 / 500m split or better once pace/power gets high. By comparison, watts are watts, so much easier to express on a smooth scaling factor.

Seem to have made some good gains in fitness, some HR drift so still more potential, though it is difficult to tell how much of that HR drift is just down to normal heat build-up as you start off cold then warm-up/start sweating. Drift was quite modest in second half and indeed seemed to plateau.

[Mat]

So much to catch up on after being away from the thread fopr most of this week. Too much to go into detail, so please accept a plethora of clapping emojis for the volume and quality of training from Eric, Aren, Spider, Iain and Ian

Odd week for me this week with an easy ride on Monday followed by the CTC on Tuesday, which I was happy with. Wednesday saw a tough Hyrox session and then yesterday I sat down to row but really struggled and baled out very early on. In all likelihood, this may have been affected by the fact that Tu/Wed/Th also involved the manual removal of the turf and top few inches of soil from c60m2 of a grassed area followed by the spreading of 4 tonnes of slate sub-base on the same area! Today's online cycle race was similarly affected with a mild AF episode which led me to drop out of the race.

An easy-ish day planned for the rest of today though with luck I'll try out my Ski Erg which is due to be delivered later

Keep up the great work

[Iain]

Aren, 8SPI at R20 is 160W, so not surprising that you exceeded your target, but good solid session. Mat, sounds like you are keeping fit despite limited rowing to report, enjoy your new toy . TOday's training on PP thread.

[spidermac]

Mat diy is a fitness killer - often doing repetitive movements that the body isn`t used to so not surprised it affected the following days of training - have experienced this often myself.
Pretty fast yourself Iain turning into a sprint monster.
Emander looks like I have some competition in the OCD stakes!!!
On that note today a 40minR20
Wup - 1k
Time dist spm HR split
05:00.0 1112 20 136 02:14.8
05:00.0 1112 20 140 02:14.8
05:00.0 1112 20 143 02:14.8
05:00.0 1112 20 146 02:14.8
05:00.0 1112 20 148 02:14.8
05:00.0 1112 20 149 02:14.8
05:00.0 1112 20 149 02:14.8
05:00.0 1112 20 152 02:14.8
40:00.0 8888 20 145 02:15.0
CD - 1k
PM3 strikes again with av of 2.15.0?? HR a bit higher than I would like but overall an OK wout.

[Ian Bee]

If only there were a feedback button to click on all those sessions - it's so motivating to see lots of sessions piling up when I seemingly was posting seconds ago.

For my 2p for warm up, I do a 1min at 2.05 pace with slightly negative split for 5 reps, 1min active recovery. Seems to work for me - concur with Iain that anything to get warm and raise HR a little does the trick.

Two sessions to pick over:

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I actually fooled myself to thinking Thursday's session would be mild, so my bluffing saw me through with little pain. 4 minutes rest is really quite a decent chunk after a marathon rep.

Today was equally mild, though I do find the lower rate (for me anyway) tends to push the explosive end of my technique and therefore gets my HR higher than I would expect (though still within target).

[Mat]

I reckon that your OCD crown is safe with that session, even if the PM clearly isn’t very good at maths!

Great couple of sessions Ian - you’re really turning in some great quality training

Didn’t feel up to training this morning but managed a steady 3x6’ session this evening after cottage changeovers.

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Then had a practice on the Ski erg - just 1k as I get used to it. Tough going and very different to rowing

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[Mat]

Hyrox training for me this morning which involved a full run through (only 500m runs though), including 1k Ski Erg and Row sections.
Most training done outside on a beautiful, frosty morning (chilly for the burpee broad jumps!), thought I’d share a pic of the sled pull (with home made sled)

[spidermac]

Agree pretty chilly this am Mat - 6 degrees in the garage neccesitated a 3k warm up!!!
Power strokes 20x1min at supposed to be 20spm but have failed to hit that target the last few times & today was no different!!!
WUp - 3k
Time dist spm HR split
01:00.0 249 21 152 02:00.4
01:00.0 253 21 155 01:58.5
01:00.0 253 21 157 01:58.5
01:00.0 255 21 160 01:57.6
01:00.0 255 21 159 01:57.6
01:00.0 255 21 161 01:57.6
01:00.0 256 21 162 01:57.1
01:00.0 255 21 162 01:57.6
01:00.0 254 22 160 01:58.1 - grrr spm a bit erratic
01:00.0 256 22 164 01:57.1
01:00.0 256 22 164 01:57.1
01:00.0 255 21 164 01:57.6
01:00.0 256 22 165 01:57.1 - starting to lose consistency again!!!
01:00.0 256 22 164 01:57.1
01:00.0 257 22 166 01:56.7
01:00.0 257 22 166 01:56.7
01:00.0 255 21 165 01:57.6
01:00.0 256 22 166 01:57.1
01:00.0 255 21 166 01:57.6
01:00.0 256 22 165 01:57.1
20:00.0 5101 21 162 01:57.6
CD - 2k
Last time thro was 1.58.1 but no 22spm intervals!!!Found it hard to hit the start at 20spm which screwed up the stroke count. Did the job & tired the legs, averaged over 10 spi, tho I think encourages a bit of a weird technique shortening the stroke & forward lean!!

[Mat]

Nice session Spider, and a good, consistent pace throughout once you’d settled into it
The R20 can be tough to hit on short, hard intervals, with the only option I’ve found being counting strokes (which I do on every session whatever the pace, as I break it into chunks, but then I’m odd like that), but if you find you’ve reached 20 with 4/5s to go, I think you make the right choice in taking another stroke as the alternative of drifting in would screw up the average pace which is probably more important in these sessions

3 x 12’ for me this morning but once again the head wasn’t in it so I just did the 2 and then a 6’ piece in the ski erg as I get used to the technique (the splits are just to see how it varies as I tire)

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[Iain]

Mat, thanks for keeping the thread going despite your lethargy. I like that you casually mention a full Hyrox run through! That would be a great achievement to most of us!

Ian, good sessions there, I would have been annoyed at the extra secs on the 5k sectors as otherwise equal distances, a great achievement at that pace.

Spider, good 40' OCD and power strokes. Unlike Mat, I try and time my strokes with the clock. Usually pull second stroke a little early and take a couple of secs to settle to the right pace.

Saturday for me I forgot to set the monitor so did on "Just Row". Intended to do 2hrs so tried to time the first 20', then nature called so split into 2 hrs and the slowing to try and hit target looked wierd, so tried to neg split second set but messed up second. Pleased at stronger stroke 'though although weakening by the end.

Sunday standard 90' UT1, missing 1M. Then this morning didn't know what to do. Settled on grey 4,3,2,1k, intending to start at 2:09, but felt fresher than expected so went faster and quickly realised neg splitting not an option. So did a bit more SS. Day off tomorrow so took it back up at end.

Time Distnc Rate Pace Hrmax % HRmin %
10:00 2,109 15 02:22.2 130 70.7% 087 47.3%
10:00 2,098 15 02:23.0 138 75.0% 128 69.6%
10:00 2,104 16 02:22.6 141 76.6% 134 72.8%
10:00 2,106 16 02:22.5 142 77.2% 137 74.5%
10:00 2,104 16 02:22.6 142 77.2% 135 73.4%
10:00 2,104 16 02:22.6 143 77.7% 135 73.4% - break
10:00 2,109 15 02:22.2 137 74.5% 090 48.9%
10:00 2,108 15 02:22.3 140 76.1% 134 72.8% - hit target, underestimated previous interval
10:00 2,111 16 02:22.1 145 78.8% 138 75.0%
10:00 2,115 16 02:21.8 147 79.9% 141 76.6%
10:00 2,121 17 02:21.4 151 82.1% 142 77.2% - stroke weakening
10:00 2,172 17 02:18.1 155 84.2% 148 80.4%
2:00 25359 15.8 2:22.0 155 84.2%

15:00 3,331 19 02:15.1 146 79.3% 088 47.8%
15:00 3,331 19 02:15.1 151 82.1% 135 73.4%
15:00 3,330 19 02:15.1 154 83.7% 148 80.4% - Doh
15:00 3,331 19 02:15.1 155 84.2% 150 81.5%
15:00 3,331 19 02:15.1 156 84.8% 151 82.1%
15:00 3,331 19 02:15.1 156 84.8% 152 82.6%
1:30 19979 19.0 2:15.1 156 84.8%

16:44.3 4,000 25 02:05.5 166 90.2% 089 48.4% - 2:06.3 R23/4 in first half, weakening

15:00 3,331 20 02:15.1 153 83.2% 101 54.9% - intended just one UT1
15:00 3,330 19 02:15.1 155 84.2% 149 81.0% - added second for rest of intended session
15:00 3,151 17 02:22.8 147 79.9% 141 76.6% - normal UT2, struggling to keep pace down
15:00 3,254 18 02:18.3 153 83.2% 140 76.1% - rowed by feel.
1:00 13065 18.5 2:17.8 155 84.2%

[Ian Bee]

Mat – it bears emphasis that for the majority around, 1:15s at 25spm is not steady Hugely impressive HR recovery. I’ve never attempted skierg (and in case Mrs B is listening, I have no intention of seeking one out), but my lower back is sympathising from a distance. Nice sessions!

Spider – I have similarly struggled with power strokes and in repeated sessions knowing where the improvement in pace (if any) is coming from. Not a favourite of mine, and in my mind (and physical reality) the variations in power don’t necessarily work.

Iain – great volume and pace at low SPM. I’ve been attempting to get some 15 spm sessions in to built that part of my CV up, but nothing like on that scale. I seem to naturally fall to 16spm, so will see how I get on with a couple more sessions to compare

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Straight forward start to the week with a satisfying improvement to last time through. Happy with the flat HR level and, accepting 2 minutes isn't particularly long for settling, a reasonable level of recovery.
I now have half an eye towards one month ahead when I will have a full 12 week sequence to start comparing various points in the cycle of sessions which appeals immensely to my statistical brain.

[Iain]

Ian, Huge improvement in pace over last time at same HR

[Emander]

I tried some rowing after I developed some rib pain during fridays session, so I'll put the rowing aside for a bit in hope that it is a muscle strain that will improve with some rest.

[Iain]

Eric, worth a try, but may not be what it seems. I used to get a recurring pain that felt like a thoracic rib on one side of my back. It would fade after a weak of inactivity, but come back when I increased the volume. A physio eventually diagnosed it as a stiff fascia joint and healed it in 20 mins of deep manipulation. It hasn't recurred since I started stretching my head to my knees after every session.

Hope you find a rapid solution.

[Emander]

Thanks Iain, I'll keep it in mind and remember to add some stretching when I'm back to rowing. I hope it just is an effect of averaging 40k per week instead of perhaps 30k previous year. I dusted off the trainer for the bike and set it up so I can keep busy in any case though I find it nicer to do rowing sessions during autumn and winter months.

[Ian Bee]

That brings back memories of a rib injury I had a few years back. Could have been muscle or stress to ribs etc. I do agree that stretches and thorough warm ups have meant that I haven't had a reoccurrence since....

Nasty session:

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Not an enjoyable session - I recall a Rowalong workout with a general description along the lines of: you'll think you can't sustain the pace, but if you focus you will. And that's roughly how this went. For the 5k reps, the first minute went past quite easily and raised my confidence. Minutes 2-3 then made my confidence wobble. By the time I was halfway, I was playing games of: there's only 4 minutes left (maths not being a priority when rowing). Once I could see there was only 2 minutes left I was then just focused on the imminent relief of a slower pace. And so it continued.

Positive result for a slightly lower HR vs last time through, though Ergzone clearly has a similar issue with maths as my average pace last time (for a lower distance) was faster than today

[Iain]

Ian, great session, 4 x 2.34k is a tough session at 5k pace. Particularly impressed at how low your HR stayed in the first 2 and that you maintained a higher FM pace as well!

Couldn't see the previous session you referred to. the only similar session I found was 1/10 when you were slower and the average shown was higher.

[ArenT]

Well as noted, there is so much activity on this thread of late that there is too much to comment on individually in detail, which is a great thing.



Mat, I find the Ski Erg probably more psychologically difficult than the other machines, simply because you don't have the benefit of a comfortable "stationary" position, since your head/upper body is constantly oscillating up and down. Otherwise, it offers a nice balance to the RowErg. Ian Bee, incidentally, I'd say the Ski Erg is actually very gentle on your lower back, since the machine is much more anterior chain orientated than say the RowErg. So in this respect is a good option if you're sore from a heavy rowing session. Instead what you find is that longer sessions are quite tough on your hands, and can be challenging on calves too if you extend onto the toes for extra leverage each rep. But like with any C2 machine, it truly is whole-body.

Update on training from last few days.

Friday 25th

- BikeErg "Long" WOD. This was 6x4000m/2 mins easy with cadence change every 1000m (85/95/85/95). After the first interval, I did the rest at more-or-less ~170W for the 85rpm sections and then up to near FTP at about ~250W for the 95rpm sections. Enjoyable workout, not too difficult given the plenty of rest involved. (First screenshot). Mostly Z2/Z3 (mid to upper UT2).

Saturday 26th

- Steady 2x6km UT2 workout, once again aiming for 80%/i.e. 167 watts at ~20spm, i.e. 2:08/500m. (Second screenshot)

Sunday 27th

- Decided to deviate from plan. After a nice afternoon walk and cake with my other half, decided to just do an easy endurance piece/marathon on BikeErg. 42195m on BikeErg is a much easier proposition than the RowErg, as it is easier to get comfortable in a gentle rhythm on a bike versus rower. Anyway, kep this at low Zone 2/UT2-UT3. This workout was mainly just a calorie/cake-burner and just to keep the progress going, as I felt a bit fatigued and knew this would not be too taxing yet still keep a good training volume going.

Monday 28th

- Rest day

Weighed myself. Down to 76.4kg, so inching toward lightweight/back to the correct bodyweight... I think the lower cadence/higher peak forces involved in rowing are different (in a good way) to cycling, as I feel like I'm heading back into very good physical condition, yet notice that, e.g., my thigh thickness/size is larger than when I just predominantly cycled a lot. This would make sense, as though rowing is still very much an endurance activity (or usually is, unless you only do 250m sprints or something), it is also akin to constantly doing hundreds/thousands of lower-weight "deadlifts", in effect. A rowing workout is pretty much basically just an extended set of horizontal deadlifts + pulls/rows, in a way, but without the DOMS-inducing eccentric phase.


Plan tonight is an easy Z2 workout after rest day, then taxing/intense session tomorrow.