100th HM of the Year
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- Mike Channin
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100th HM of the Year
Did a HM yesterday, and today I found out it was the 100th one of the calendar year.
First time in a long time where I've done a really big progressive negative split to the finish from a long way out, and ended up hitting the Max HR I've actually observed for the last 3 years or so (183; I actually think I can go higher, as this didn't feel like completely full-out).
Original plan was a 2:07 HM (a 'standard' session I do periodically to assess progress), with that being quite a tough target as only third piece trying to recover from a slight illness and then a minor back tweak that kept me off rowing almost 2 weeks. Turned out that I'd made progress, and things went better than expected, leading me into trying a progressive pace wind-up from quite a long way out. Never 100% certain I was going to make it without being forced to back off, but all worked out in the end.
Nice to discover that such an interesting piece also happened to be the 100th HM of the year for me (which I'm pretty sure is a 'sort of' PB...)
First time in a long time where I've done a really big progressive negative split to the finish from a long way out, and ended up hitting the Max HR I've actually observed for the last 3 years or so (183; I actually think I can go higher, as this didn't feel like completely full-out).
Original plan was a 2:07 HM (a 'standard' session I do periodically to assess progress), with that being quite a tough target as only third piece trying to recover from a slight illness and then a minor back tweak that kept me off rowing almost 2 weeks. Turned out that I'd made progress, and things went better than expected, leading me into trying a progressive pace wind-up from quite a long way out. Never 100% certain I was going to make it without being forced to back off, but all worked out in the end.
Nice to discover that such an interesting piece also happened to be the 100th HM of the year for me (which I'm pretty sure is a 'sort of' PB...)
5'11", 50 - older, slower, greyer, fatter (and needs to update the sig times too)
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Re: 100th HM of the Year
Great HM Mike. That is a huge volume. I rarely do HM as a distance, but just checked my logbook and only done 18 HM+ rows since the first after I restarted on 17 March, so while you have just exceeded a HM every 3 days, I haven't managed one every 12. Not sure whether you use the Crazy Bear Challenge convention of counting an FM as 2 HMs? If I do this I have 2 more, so nearly 1 per 11 days. In addition I have done 13 sessions of 18.8km-HM, so even including 4/9 marathons (counting FM+ as 2) I have a frequency less than half of yours. Even just starting when I upped my distances in the last 6 weeks I have only managed 1 HM every 4.8 days, just surpassing your rate in this period if I include all distances over 4/9th of a mile, but I think it unlikely that I will keep this up. Not sure whether I can justify this to myself because I take as long to do 4/9ths as you often do to complete an HM (around 2:07 pace if I am at my UT2 pace).
56 year old Lwt (in ability and in weight) trying to develop a technique that doesn't cause hysterics and continue to row regularly.
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Re: 100th HM of the Year
Hahahaha. Why on earth would you row 18k and not complete the HM distance? If it is a time thing, and you're rowing at pace, you should really be rowing a cooldown anyway, so you could use that to reach HM distance...
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Re: 100th HM of the Year
I tend to row almost all of mine at Fixed Paces (usually 2:07, 2:16, 2:20 or 2:24) and use them to gauge how my aerobic capacity is going at these specific power levels.
I sometimes use the first part to run one of my varying pace comparison pieces e.g. 5/5/2 (5@2:07, 5@2:16, 2@2:30) and then row out the rest at whatever pace I feel like.
I did do some more unusual variants when I was doing Crazy Bear, like 1k on (2:00), 1k off (2:20) intervals with active rest, done continuous.
And there are the full out attempts.
Progressive wind up, like the one above are very rare, but it was kind of fun. In part, inspired by some of the old write ups in the original 72 hour relay thread from 2006. I used to do this kind of thing more, but mainly because I was less good at knowing where my form was at - these days I tend to know what I've got to a fairly accurate level, so less opportunity for progressive wind. Maybe I should adopt it more frequently as a deliberate plan!
I sometimes use the first part to run one of my varying pace comparison pieces e.g. 5/5/2 (5@2:07, 5@2:16, 2@2:30) and then row out the rest at whatever pace I feel like.
I did do some more unusual variants when I was doing Crazy Bear, like 1k on (2:00), 1k off (2:20) intervals with active rest, done continuous.
And there are the full out attempts.
Progressive wind up, like the one above are very rare, but it was kind of fun. In part, inspired by some of the old write ups in the original 72 hour relay thread from 2006. I used to do this kind of thing more, but mainly because I was less good at knowing where my form was at - these days I tend to know what I've got to a fairly accurate level, so less opportunity for progressive wind. Maybe I should adopt it more frequently as a deliberate plan!
5'11", 50 - older, slower, greyer, fatter (and needs to update the sig times too)
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Re: 100th HM of the Year
I'm still scratching my head about the 4/9 FM thing - it's not even a round number.
I tend to use 10500 (QM) 21097 (HM) very occasionally a QM+HM, or FM. Then 50k
As for subdivided distances (as in milestones along the way), I watch for 14066 and 7033 (1/3, 2/3)
And sometimes the 7ths, as they're close to round numbers too ~3k, ~6k, ~9k, ~12k, ~15k, ~18k
I actually row with 1000m (1k) intervals set, and I tend to take performance markers at 5k/10k/15k/20k.
I was actually stroke counting from about 15k out as well yesterday.
Funny how we do various things to either distract or keep concentration.
I tend to use 10500 (QM) 21097 (HM) very occasionally a QM+HM, or FM. Then 50k
As for subdivided distances (as in milestones along the way), I watch for 14066 and 7033 (1/3, 2/3)
And sometimes the 7ths, as they're close to round numbers too ~3k, ~6k, ~9k, ~12k, ~15k, ~18k
I actually row with 1000m (1k) intervals set, and I tend to take performance markers at 5k/10k/15k/20k.
I was actually stroke counting from about 15k out as well yesterday.
Funny how we do various things to either distract or keep concentration.
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Re: 100th HM of the Year
As for the volume - I did 60 in the back-to-back Crazy Bears in Jan/Feb, and I've been doing rather less since, with some big gaps at points. My capacity for rowing volumes at slow pace was pretty impressive at the end of Feb, and has declined a lot since, although not helped by the occasional cold/virus/whatever goes around.
If I were you, and training for something like a proper ultra, I'd definitely use something like the continuous HMs as preparation - the tricky bit is picking the right paces not to get too tired and allow recovery, and trying not to pick up any niggling injuries.
Interestingly, the big jumps in performance overall come more from shorter more intense pieces 5k to 1 hour range; just grinding out HMs at low rate improves aerobic base but does little for higher intensity capacity, other than giving you a solid base to work from.
If I were you, and training for something like a proper ultra, I'd definitely use something like the continuous HMs as preparation - the tricky bit is picking the right paces not to get too tired and allow recovery, and trying not to pick up any niggling injuries.
Interestingly, the big jumps in performance overall come more from shorter more intense pieces 5k to 1 hour range; just grinding out HMs at low rate improves aerobic base but does little for higher intensity capacity, other than giving you a solid base to work from.
5'11", 50 - older, slower, greyer, fatter (and needs to update the sig times too)
Re: 100th HM of the Year
100 HM this calendar year is super impressive Mike. Definitely a way to build a huge "diesel engine"/aerobic base!
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Re: 100th HM of the Year
That makes me feel slightly less inadequate as the HM(+)s are preparation not the event in themselves and I have kept up a reasonably similar amount to your average excluding those months.Mike Channin wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 4:45 pmAs for the volume - I did 60 in the back-to-back Crazy Bears in Jan/Feb, and I've been doing rather less since, with some big gaps at points. My capacity for rowing volumes at slow pace was pretty impressive at the end of Feb, and has declined a lot since, although not helped by the occasional cold/virus/whatever goes around.
There is a similarity, but I am not prepared to get up early enough to row HMs on weekday mornings and can rarely do them in the evenings.Mike Channin wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 4:45 pmIf I were you, and training for something like a proper ultra, I'd definitely use something like the continuous HMs as preparation - the tricky bit is picking the right paces not to get too tired and allow recovery, and trying not to pick up any niggling injuries.
I would have agreed with you, but the only real changes to my training are adding regular UT1 sessions at FM pace and doing longer UT2 sessions to push many into the HM+ zone. May be a coincidence, but I have gained 2SPM which has increased my pace on short and long PP intervals significantly. I may be an unusual case as I had about 9 years of an almost completely sedentary life followed by occasional hill walking for 6 years before restarting erging. Also in my youth I did very little base building and was less active than most. When erging I only rowed UT1+. So I probably had an incredibly weak base compared to other aspects of my fitness. This is the first time for 12 years that I have been able to row R25+ for more than a 2k!Mike Channin wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 4:45 pmInterestingly, the big jumps in performance overall come more from shorter more intense pieces 5k to 1 hour range; just grinding out HMs at low rate improves aerobic base but does little for higher intensity capacity, other than giving you a solid base to work from.
56 year old Lwt (in ability and in weight) trying to develop a technique that doesn't cause hysterics and continue to row regularly.
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Re: 100th HM of the Year
Not sure about this concept of 'gaining 2SPM' as a measure of progress. If you gained 2PM, and kept the SPI constant, then THAT is potentially big progress.
Rate is just one part of the rowing motion. SPI is the other. Given total control, you ideally want to be rating lower, as each stroke involves the inefficiency of moving your own bodyweight around. However, as we all know from the joys of the 30R20, when you rate too low and hard, you end up in a totally different failure mode - where the power per stroke is very high and you hit muscle limits. Also, rowing very hard at low rates (high SPI) is much more risky in terms of injury potential. So what you really want is a balance of rate/SPI to achieve whatever target pace/power you are aimed at, as efficiently as possible. And as you fatigue, you move the balance around to squeeze the best out of your body.
One of *the* biggest differences between erging and rowing in a boat (as part of a squad), is that on the erg, you can vary the balance of rate, SPI, stroke length and whatever else you vary *as you want to (or need to)*. In a boat, you have to row with the boat and put the maximum you can in, without disrupting the rhythm.
The real trick to optimal performance on the erg is utilising all of the variables that you can control to get the best out of yourself (and arrange all of the varying physiological mechanisms to hit failure at the same point, rather than hitting one and bottlenecking your overall performance).
For the various distances, there are theoretically optimal rate ranges, assuming you have a middle-of-the-road physical composition:
For me, I'm usually within these. If I'm at the low end of rate, and not destroyed at the end, it means I should rate up a bit to get extra performance.
500m 40+
1k 32-40
2k 30-35
5k 28-32
10k 25-30
HM 24-28
FM 22-25
There's also the fact that (neglecting tricks like fast start and sprint finish, and also the mental/psychological side), the provably most efficient way to row a piece is a flat pace. Rowing the first half slower and the second quicker to make up the average is LESS efficient overall (you do MORE work), although it can be easier mentally, and also there is some added complexity around carrying fatigue.
For me personally, if I'm rowing a Maximal piece (5k and up as shorter pieces need special pace plans), I'll target flat pace (although that pace may be a tiny bit conservative), and then look to adjust as I understand what I've actually got from the HR response and how the body feels.
On a good day, this will be a negative split as I discover I have more than I thought. On a bad day it might mean backing off when you cannot hold the pace (and this is where Plan B and alternative targets come in).
Just rowing flat usually looks like starting on a lower Rate initially, and then rating up progressively to be able to hold onto the pace/power target as I get tired (by trading stroke power for aerobic load).
I did know one person who rowed a flat rate all the way, and varied the pace considerably (lower to higher) through a piece, but I've never understood how he made that work...
Finally, the mental aspect is very often the decider in actual delivery. I've had a lot of cases where I've set off harder than I thought I could sustain, and then ended up forcing myself to complete by being bloody-minded about not wanting to surrender the gains made - for this to work, it's a sign I had more and just needed to be mentally tougher.
I've also had sessions where I've started hard (ahead of target), realised that I've got it wrong, had to adjust, and then still managed to get a good result by the end.
That said, a fly-and-die is truly horrible when you genuinely DON'T have it in you.
In every maximal piece you do, you need to try to figure out WHAT aspect of performance it was that limited you, and then train for improvement on that (while not neglecting any of the other variables too much).
When targeting a very wide range of distances, the limit is usually conditioning at that particular intensity, and repeating similar intensity sessions tends to bring obvious gains. I never seem to stay on top form and in a particular target zone long enough to hit the true limits.
Now, back to the original topic area - rowing a lot of long slow distance conditions you for that pattern. I saw efficiency improvements of 20%+ over the 2 months of Crazy Bears, but I did also pick up some niggling injuries. The aerobic base did translate to performance gains at long distance, and allowed me to clock a decent HM at sub 2:00, but it didn't do much for shorter/higher intensity. When I switched to doing shorter Maximal pieces, I got a good improvement in performance at the high-end, but obviously had to back off overall distance to avoid overtraining, and gradually that base started to slide. As is always the way, illness and minor injuries got in the way before it got really interesting, but that is how it tends to be, especially as we get older...
Rate is just one part of the rowing motion. SPI is the other. Given total control, you ideally want to be rating lower, as each stroke involves the inefficiency of moving your own bodyweight around. However, as we all know from the joys of the 30R20, when you rate too low and hard, you end up in a totally different failure mode - where the power per stroke is very high and you hit muscle limits. Also, rowing very hard at low rates (high SPI) is much more risky in terms of injury potential. So what you really want is a balance of rate/SPI to achieve whatever target pace/power you are aimed at, as efficiently as possible. And as you fatigue, you move the balance around to squeeze the best out of your body.
One of *the* biggest differences between erging and rowing in a boat (as part of a squad), is that on the erg, you can vary the balance of rate, SPI, stroke length and whatever else you vary *as you want to (or need to)*. In a boat, you have to row with the boat and put the maximum you can in, without disrupting the rhythm.
The real trick to optimal performance on the erg is utilising all of the variables that you can control to get the best out of yourself (and arrange all of the varying physiological mechanisms to hit failure at the same point, rather than hitting one and bottlenecking your overall performance).
For the various distances, there are theoretically optimal rate ranges, assuming you have a middle-of-the-road physical composition:
For me, I'm usually within these. If I'm at the low end of rate, and not destroyed at the end, it means I should rate up a bit to get extra performance.
500m 40+
1k 32-40
2k 30-35
5k 28-32
10k 25-30
HM 24-28
FM 22-25
There's also the fact that (neglecting tricks like fast start and sprint finish, and also the mental/psychological side), the provably most efficient way to row a piece is a flat pace. Rowing the first half slower and the second quicker to make up the average is LESS efficient overall (you do MORE work), although it can be easier mentally, and also there is some added complexity around carrying fatigue.
For me personally, if I'm rowing a Maximal piece (5k and up as shorter pieces need special pace plans), I'll target flat pace (although that pace may be a tiny bit conservative), and then look to adjust as I understand what I've actually got from the HR response and how the body feels.
On a good day, this will be a negative split as I discover I have more than I thought. On a bad day it might mean backing off when you cannot hold the pace (and this is where Plan B and alternative targets come in).
Just rowing flat usually looks like starting on a lower Rate initially, and then rating up progressively to be able to hold onto the pace/power target as I get tired (by trading stroke power for aerobic load).
I did know one person who rowed a flat rate all the way, and varied the pace considerably (lower to higher) through a piece, but I've never understood how he made that work...
Finally, the mental aspect is very often the decider in actual delivery. I've had a lot of cases where I've set off harder than I thought I could sustain, and then ended up forcing myself to complete by being bloody-minded about not wanting to surrender the gains made - for this to work, it's a sign I had more and just needed to be mentally tougher.
I've also had sessions where I've started hard (ahead of target), realised that I've got it wrong, had to adjust, and then still managed to get a good result by the end.
That said, a fly-and-die is truly horrible when you genuinely DON'T have it in you.
In every maximal piece you do, you need to try to figure out WHAT aspect of performance it was that limited you, and then train for improvement on that (while not neglecting any of the other variables too much).
When targeting a very wide range of distances, the limit is usually conditioning at that particular intensity, and repeating similar intensity sessions tends to bring obvious gains. I never seem to stay on top form and in a particular target zone long enough to hit the true limits.
Now, back to the original topic area - rowing a lot of long slow distance conditions you for that pattern. I saw efficiency improvements of 20%+ over the 2 months of Crazy Bears, but I did also pick up some niggling injuries. The aerobic base did translate to performance gains at long distance, and allowed me to clock a decent HM at sub 2:00, but it didn't do much for shorter/higher intensity. When I switched to doing shorter Maximal pieces, I got a good improvement in performance at the high-end, but obviously had to back off overall distance to avoid overtraining, and gradually that base started to slide. As is always the way, illness and minor injuries got in the way before it got really interesting, but that is how it tends to be, especially as we get older...
5'11", 50 - older, slower, greyer, fatter (and needs to update the sig times too)
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Re: 100th HM of the Year
Thanks for your thoughts Mike. For over 10 years I have struggled t get close to your suggested ratings so definitely needed to rate up. At the extreme I think I will always rate lower than optimum especially for someone as small and weak as I am as my asthma makes rapid breathing an issue and 1 breath per stroke is not sufficient for anything over 500. My SPI did drop a bit, but pace was up 2-3S/500M, a big gain. I also target flat pace except for final 1k or less, but like you the most successful is when I find I can go faster. I believe the mental element is the most important. I am sure that what have seemed "Fly& Dies" have sometimes actually been sustainable, I just lost confidence in a self-fulfilling prophesy that I will need to slow. At a 5k race I was once convinced that I was rowing as fast as I could manage when dropping to target + 4S with around 1k remaining. But managed to get going faster for last 500m and did the last 100 at target -3! I know that the sprint wasn't maintainable for 1k, but could surely have rowed it more evenly and probably still found some kick at the end.
Personally I find that SPI varies significantly based on how tired I am. The same effort can sometimes generate 10% more power. Conversely if anything HR on hard sessions is lower when I am tired. Not sure how much is me driving myself less hard (despite apparently similar RPE) or cardiac fatigue. Re optimising a piece, I must admit to not having been at a constant level for a very long time, I have rowed in spurts of broad improvement followed by reduced training and then stopping before restarting the cycle. As a result, I have not optimised any piece. If I get a good result, it shows up a weakness elsewhere and it is easier to improve that than look for marginal gains in the one recently accomplished. As a result, it has more often for me been identifying what I have done better and applying this elsewhere than identifying further refinements that I can make! the one area I do (probably excessively) concentrate on is confidence: I try and find one or more sessions that demonstrate a key aspect of the piece so that I can know that I am capable of it. So I might do a 3k at target pace prior to a 5k. I have rarely stopped in the second half of a 5k so knowing I can get to 3k gets me into the difficult area where I can fight to the end. It is easier than the 5k ab initio as I can row through it knowing the end is closer (ie halfway at 1.5k), but I can remember doing this successfully and finishing knowing that I was not all out so whatever my body is lying to me about needing to stop at 2k I find it easier to resist.
Very interesting to get a fresh perspective.
Personally I find that SPI varies significantly based on how tired I am. The same effort can sometimes generate 10% more power. Conversely if anything HR on hard sessions is lower when I am tired. Not sure how much is me driving myself less hard (despite apparently similar RPE) or cardiac fatigue. Re optimising a piece, I must admit to not having been at a constant level for a very long time, I have rowed in spurts of broad improvement followed by reduced training and then stopping before restarting the cycle. As a result, I have not optimised any piece. If I get a good result, it shows up a weakness elsewhere and it is easier to improve that than look for marginal gains in the one recently accomplished. As a result, it has more often for me been identifying what I have done better and applying this elsewhere than identifying further refinements that I can make! the one area I do (probably excessively) concentrate on is confidence: I try and find one or more sessions that demonstrate a key aspect of the piece so that I can know that I am capable of it. So I might do a 3k at target pace prior to a 5k. I have rarely stopped in the second half of a 5k so knowing I can get to 3k gets me into the difficult area where I can fight to the end. It is easier than the 5k ab initio as I can row through it knowing the end is closer (ie halfway at 1.5k), but I can remember doing this successfully and finishing knowing that I was not all out so whatever my body is lying to me about needing to stop at 2k I find it easier to resist.
Very interesting to get a fresh perspective.
56 year old Lwt (in ability and in weight) trying to develop a technique that doesn't cause hysterics and continue to row regularly.
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Re: 100th HM of the Year
Those ranges are only recommended, and plenty of people row outside them, often for good physiological reasons.
What I tend to find is that I get about the same stroke power through training up at a distance, but I’m initially at bottom of the range and limited on cardio fitness. Once I make improvements there, I manage to rate up a bit, and with the same SPI I see a decent gain overall. Most of my PBs were set when my fitness was enough to rate at the high end.
That said, sometimes I start off a bit weak, and get a noticeable power per stroke increase too.
What I tend to find is that I get about the same stroke power through training up at a distance, but I’m initially at bottom of the range and limited on cardio fitness. Once I make improvements there, I manage to rate up a bit, and with the same SPI I see a decent gain overall. Most of my PBs were set when my fitness was enough to rate at the high end.
That said, sometimes I start off a bit weak, and get a noticeable power per stroke increase too.
5'11", 50 - older, slower, greyer, fatter (and needs to update the sig times too)
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Re: 100th HM of the Year
It’s interesting what you said about targeting your weak pieces.
It all depends on what you are training for, I guess.
When I was racing, my main goal was the (dreaded) 2k, although I still probably got distracted by other distances.
When I’m not doing anything else, I tend to target nonathlon, which means wide ranges and targeting the weak ones, just as you describe.
And when I need to shift some excess lard, the crazy bear is my ally!
It all depends on what you are training for, I guess.
When I was racing, my main goal was the (dreaded) 2k, although I still probably got distracted by other distances.
When I’m not doing anything else, I tend to target nonathlon, which means wide ranges and targeting the weak ones, just as you describe.
And when I need to shift some excess lard, the crazy bear is my ally!
5'11", 50 - older, slower, greyer, fatter (and needs to update the sig times too)
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Re: 100th HM of the Year
Trying to do great pieces across such a wide range is definitely a tough challenge. You don’t see many sprinters running the marathon!
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Re: 100th HM of the Year
Since I retired from racing the nonathlon and CTC have been my main goals as you describe. Erging is unusual in that while there are specialist sprinters, most people good at 2k have also got a good FM in them!
56 year old Lwt (in ability and in weight) trying to develop a technique that doesn't cause hysterics and continue to row regularly.
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Re: 100th HM of the Year
I think a lot of the above is beyond me in terms of pace and understanding.
I am however inspired to set a little target of my own beginning in January.
I've not done anything over 15k in perhaps 18 months. I'm now finished for a while (I was planning a sneaky trip to the rower today but - 3 days before I start a sabbatical - I've come down with a cold) and will pick it up again in January.
I'm expecting a few sessions of 5k to 8k whilst I regain some form but by the end of January I should be back to where I am now (ish).
So between 6 February 2025 and end of April 2025 (83 days) I'm going to try to get 25 HM's done.
On SPM.
Cruising speed is circa 22 to 24. If I push from cruise to "effort", then this goes to 23 to 26. Anything above that is likely to be for short bursts.
I am however inspired to set a little target of my own beginning in January.
I've not done anything over 15k in perhaps 18 months. I'm now finished for a while (I was planning a sneaky trip to the rower today but - 3 days before I start a sabbatical - I've come down with a cold) and will pick it up again in January.
I'm expecting a few sessions of 5k to 8k whilst I regain some form but by the end of January I should be back to where I am now (ish).
So between 6 February 2025 and end of April 2025 (83 days) I'm going to try to get 25 HM's done.
On SPM.
Cruising speed is circa 22 to 24. If I push from cruise to "effort", then this goes to 23 to 26. Anything above that is likely to be for short bursts.
Uphill to the finish
ID 140904
ID 140904
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Re: 100th HM of the Year
Quite a challenge Graham. For comparison After I restarted on 12 February (after just over 3 months with no erging), it took me just over a month before I managed to go >HM (HR around 80% for most at just over 2:27 pace). My 3rd session back after 5 days was an hour just under 2:30 with significant parts at >90% HRMax. In the time before the HM, I had rowed 17.5 hours in 17 sessions.
Good luck.
Good luck.
56 year old Lwt (in ability and in weight) trying to develop a technique that doesn't cause hysterics and continue to row regularly.