New ctc site

[Caratacus]

Update 2: All fixed now. Good speedy response, although I would have expected to be able to update my own account details. What happens with people who fluctuate between light/heavyweight?

[plummy]

Hi Jon - is the plan over time to switch the link tab at the top of the Forum page to take us to the new site?

Plummy

[JonT]

Hi Jon - is the plan over time to switch the link tab at the top of the Forum page to take us to the new site?

Jon, apologies if you've mentioned this already .. one little thing to change will be the link to CTC on our banner at the top of the forum pages

This is done now Steve and Plummy. But it has to take you to the login page because they no longer allow access straight to the scores page without first being registered and logged in. Not ideal.

Jon

[plummy]

Aye, not ideal. Earlier it was the old dead site - so at least it's better than that

I needed it today to enter my latest post injury 2k PB - 9:15.0 - woohoo!! (not that I'm "cured" just less bad than I was)

[JonT]

The new analysis tool is now in place -> http://www.freespiritsrowing.com/c2ctc/ ... alysis.php and can be accessed via the Utilities menu on the forum.

There are some differences:

• As I proposed earlier. I have applied a factor of x1.2 to scores to compensate for the fact that unfloated boats are no longer counted in the total of CTC boats. This may change again in the future if they go back to the old way of showing all boats rather than just ones that are afloat.
• There is no history of past events accessible via a menu. The new site is not showing any event history at the moment.
• The list of rowers is sorted by score rather than boat.
• There is more data now (e.g. your actual score as well as points earned).

The last two points mean that it is now far easier to see who is above you and what the target is to try to clamber past them.

Let me know if I have made any errors - it has been quite a bit of effort and quite complicated to change the code. Also let me know if you dislike the new way of displaying things.

I suspect the new CTC site will go through a series of changes and so this tool may need to be updated again soon.

Jon

P.S. For those who don't know or have forgotten: the score for a boat is calculated as the total number of boats in the CTC minus the position of your boat, which is now multiplied by 1.2. If you are not in a boat you will still get 50% of the points earned by the lowest floating boat.

[Iain]

Thanks for all the hard work Jon. Not sure about the new points system, it may well favour boats NOT being floated! Ie if we had the 4th slowest boat, it would only score 5, probably less than 50% of next lowest boat. How would people prefer the points plus a number? Is this easy to code? The alternative would be to have higher of 50% of boat above or actual points when floated. Due to issue changing details I won't enter anything until later in the month as there is a possibility I will be back to Lwt (76.4kg this morning). Unlikely to make much difference this month unless there are a flood of heavyweights.

Iain

[JonT]

Iain,

I haven’t changed the calculation other than adding in the 1.2 factor because the unfloated boats no longer count in the total number of boats. We have been running with 50% of the lowest boat for unfloated boats all of last season after The Diamonds made the number of boats so high that the old system stopped working.

We did actually have an approach which was that an unfloated boat got the highest of their actual score or the 50% score but in practice it was always 50% and now that doesn’t work because unfloated boats don’t get a position. The idea of the 50% was to motivate people to get in a boat to get a reasonable haul of points.

Or am I missing your point?

But the way, I’m happy to code it any way people want it.


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[JonT]

Aha. I understand what you are saying now Iain....I think.

So, if I look at the current CTC, there are 44 boats afloat. FSII is in 20th place and so has (44-20) x 1.2 points which is 29 points when rounded. This gives those ashore 50% of 29 points which is 15 when rounded.

If those ashore managed to float, but only as the 40th boat then they would get (44-40) x 1.2 points, which is 5 points when rounded. So they have lost 10 points by floating.

I think your suggestion is that they would have been better off getting the 50%, which makes sense. But do you only do this for the lowest floated boat or for all floated boats (which feels odd).

Have I got this right Iain?

What do others think?

Jon

[Iain]

That's exactly my point. The number of fairly slow Diamond boats "distort" the bottom. I would expect that it is only the lowest boat that would usually be affected, although mathematically you could get qwerks higher up. The new scoring system may well again lower the relative points for "taking part" relative to the stronger rowers. For instance I think the scores from last time would be (I think) 128,107,97,49,6,3 rather than 152,134,107,86,50,25. That was why I suggested adding some number rather that multiplying. 40 would give 147,129, 121,81,45 and 23. Happy either way, just exploring the options. It would be good to see what others feel.

[obirobsan]

Saw the site is doubling every boat / I looked at list and felt like I was drowning in a sea of Diamonds boats.


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[Jill]

Jon, after registering yesterday, I thought that I had posted my time that placed me in a ( then ) full boat. I used my existing password but today when I tried to enter the site I was told that my password was incorrect. When I entered a new password, that came up as incorrect as well.

I have read through all the posts on here several times but being an incurable techlexic, I'm flummoxed.

[JonT]

Jon, after registering yesterday, I thought that I had posted my time that placed me in a ( then ) full boat. I used my existing password but today when I tried to enter the site I was told that my password was incorrect. When I entered a new password, that came up as incorrect as well.

I have read through all the posts on here several times but being an incurable techlexic, I'm flummoxed.

Hi Jill - the good news is that you did indeed enter a time and have floated FS III

The not so good news is that you must have some glitch with the password. If you go to the login page here then you should be able to click on reset password. I haven't tried it myself.

Good luck!

Jon

[Jill]

Hi Jill - the good news is that you did indeed enter a time and have floated FS III

The not so good news is that you must have some glitch with the password. If you go to the login page here then you should be able to click on reset password. I haven't tried it myself.

Good luck!

Thank you Jon for checking that I am still in a boat on the the CTC site and for getting to grips with all the Techno Changes.

Before posting my first message to you, I had already tried the Reset Password function and it came up with the dreaded, Incorrect Password message and Hal the computer saying, ' Jill. This does not compute. '

At least it made me smile, when Peter quoted Rod Chinn's, ' the old ' Password incorrect ' bug when setting up an account has been removed. ' Famous last words ...

Hey Ho.

[Rod Chinn]

At least it made me smile, when Peter quoted Rod Chinn's, ' the old ' Password incorrect ' bug when setting up an account has been removed. ' Famous last words ... Hey Ho.

That bug has definitely gone Jill and everyone in my team plus everyone I know in other teams has had no trouble at all with registering, found it very simple and is working very well so you may be doing something wrong...although I don't know what.

I can see your score on the CTC site though so entering it worked ok.

If you email the CTC admin they will fix it for you;

insideindoor@britishrowing.org

[Rod Chinn]

Update............I have just been told by the administrator that there is some work going on with integration with Ergzone but should be back to normal tomorrow so that may explain it Jill.

[Jill]

Thanks for this Rod. An email has been sent to see if anything can be done to sort out this password issue.

[Jill]

Dear Rod and Jon, I received a very helpful email from Fergus Mainland and to quote some of my words to him, ' We now have lift off ', so thank you for all your help and patience.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the Techno Gremlins are now bored with me and have decided to ' Bu**er off '.

Kind regards,

Jill xx

[JonT]

Thanks for all your effort again, Jon. Will be a bit complicated to calculate the scores by hand perhaps, but should be possible.

Fred, I have managed to cobble together a solution but it is a bit (a lot!) of a hack. I have had to download the html showing the current scores, upload it to our server, and then point the new CTC tool at it. This means that our tool is not showing a live view of the competiton - just a view at the point I took a snapshot. But it does mean that we can do this at the end of the month to capture the final set of scores for an event, saving you having to do the calculations.

Meanwhile, as Iain predicted, the scores aren't quite lining up with the previous website, so we may need to fine tune. At the moment the top boat is getting 82 points for being placed 28th. Last month our top boat came 32nd and we awarded 152 points. Last year the top boat scored between the range of 122 and 185 points.

Part of the complication is that the total number of boats has dropped significantly. Firstly because on floated boats now show in the C2CTC website and secondly because they have lost a lot of participants - there were 139 boats floated last month and there are currently only 96 this month. I imagine this may change as more people move over to the new site. There is also discussion on Facebook of reintroducing boats that have not floated, which will change the whole calculation again.

Anyway, at least we have an approach for now. I'd be interested in what people think, but right now I think I am just going to double the points to get the totals close to the ones we have had previously.

Jon

[Grobi]

Thank you for updating our ctc leaderboard tool Jon, I‘m sure it‘s as motivational for others as it is for me

If anyone needs help with registering to the new site, this is a little video to explain it which I received from Fergus Mainland from British Rowing:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RlDDlo ... avynd/view

[Iain]

Thanks Jon. THere might be fewer participants as well because of the challenge. I would expect 2k to be one of the least popular!

[JonT]

OK. I have applied a new factor of x2 to the scores in the tool to compensated for the smaller number of total boats listed on the new site (i.e. only floated boats are now listed).

I have also tried to fix the issue that Iain pointed out whereby a boat may end up with lower points when floating rather than staying ashore. The algorithm now uses the greatest of the score if the boat had been ashore and the score calculated from its position. At the time of writing, you can see this, with FS3 which is in 81st position out of 99 boats. Under the old method FS3 would have been given 52 points when ashore (half of the points of FS2) but would only have got 36 points when afloat (99-81)x2. Under the new approach FS3 gets the 52 points, and ashore boats get half of that score. The code to do this is very messy and so I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few gremlins in there.

The scoring system will take some time to settle I would imagine, but I hope this is good enough for now.

Jon

[obirobsan]

Thanks for the time and effort to keep our statistics “boat” afloat! I do enjoy these many fun little competitions we have - and they tend to encourage me on the many lazy couch days of this season of my life…


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[JonT]

The new calculation method has produced the results for March given Boat 1 a score of 160 points for finishing 29th out of 143 boats. This compares with 152 points last month for finishing 32 out of 184 points.

I have also added in the fix so that boats that float towards the bottom of the table do not get less points than if they were ashore.

This is done by applying a factor of 1.4 to what used to be the normal approach of subtracting position from total number of boats - where the total included non-floating boats. The alternative, as Iain pointed out, would just to be to use the original scoring method and add in a number to represent the number of boats that used to be ashore. This has recently averaged around 40. Using 40 would give boat 1 a score of 154.

Thoughts anyone?

Jon

[Ian Bee]

Thanks for sorting this out Jon.

The consistency part of me tends to favour the simple calculation of the first option.

[Iain]

Jon, not sure why, but your CTC monitor isn't picking up that Ian is in boat 1 for some reason.