About slides

The forum for general banter about the team.

Moderator: The forum police - (nee naw)

User avatar
Claudius
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2019
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2019
Posts: 465
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:36 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Oberpfalz, Bavaria, Germany

About slides

Post by Claudius »

As I already mentioned, I bought some slides. They are a great tool to reduce some stress, especially in the turnaround points. It is a great feeling, and yes it is more fun to row with them. I do not have back issues, but minor knee issues, and yes, slides are a benefit here, too. Nonetheless for normal training sessions in other locations I still use the static. I didn’t use them for the reason of being faster. Maybe I am a bit faster in short intervals. If this is or was a disturbance in our team concerning the last ctcs in which i used them, i do say sorry. Now there is this heated debate about slides. Now I use them. As a reminder, rule #5(ctc website) or #6(c2forum): Slides and / or dynamic ergos can be used, whether that is an advantage has never been determined. The only requirement is that the ergo must be a Concept2 model.
So it was not breaking the rule to use them.
Now this debate is going into a direction where I say, ok, we have a wonderful piece of equipment here, it is an official c2 product, it gives you an advantage on shorter pieces. How important is this to the majority ? If I use slides or not - I guess I am in the same boat. And for me it is not important if this is FS boat I or V. I am not an Achilles Athlete. I am not world class. I am not superfast and belong to the middle class of this challenge in which participation, floating a boat and pure personal progress and training effect that is what matters. The cross team challenge was more about a team challenge, being creative by inventing unique intervals like in this month or a go for a ranking piece. It is this creativeness and the simplicity from which the uniqueness from these challenge derives. If now, a simple challenge or competition, wants to be more accurate and exclusive than the world championship (which was actually cancelled without replacement and a purely virtual one was offered, with the most diverse conditions of the Ergs). Sorry, I have to say sorry and goodbye, this is it. One can not grab truth. It's pathless. By calling one who is using slides cheater, one makes this challenge an incredible exclusive club. Goodbye.

https://youtu.be/9XGyxOwM0tE

The art of living and dying.
Image
“Do you wish me a good morning, or mean that it is a good morning whether I want it or not; or that you feel good this morning; or that it is a morning to be good on?”
(J.R.R.T.)
User avatar
fkoene
True Free Spirit
Posts: 717
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:28 pm
I row on...: Model C with PM5
Location: Rotterdam, the Netherlands

Re: About slides

Post by fkoene »

Personally I hope you keep on rowing CTC's. Ik haven't read the slides discussion but I completely agree with you saying it's still a Concept2. And an official C2 accessory.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn FP3 met Tapatalk

Image
User avatar
Ian Bee
Dedicated and True Free Spirit
Posts: 1095
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:27 am
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Wilts., UK

Re: About slides

Post by Ian Bee »

fkoene wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:26 pm Personally I hope you keep on rowing CTC's. Ik haven't read the slides discussion but I completely agree with you saying it's still a Concept2. And an official C2 accessory.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn FP3 met Tapatalk
Not only that - and please keep on rowing for your own enjoyment - I take as much gratification from others improvement as my own. Slides or no slides, doesn't matter.
User avatar
Mat
Super Dedicated and Truly Free Spirit
Posts: 3644
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:57 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Anglesey, North Wales
Contact:

Re: About slides

Post by Mat »

I must have missed the discussion about slides elsewhere, though I'll have a look.

According to the CTC guidelines...

"There's not been much discussion about their use; it's not even clear whether they provide an advantage over the static erg. Results are valid from both slider and dynamic ergs"

So surely that's the end of the discussion - I certainly can't understand any objection to using slides when they're within the rules
I would object to one of a team feeling as if they shouldn't take part in the CTC because somebody else objected to their use of a piece of equipment that is clearly allowable within the rules of the challenge

My own personal view is that slides often separate the "real" rowers from those of us who simple wrestle an erg as I understand that they better replicate OTW rowing. I was recently at a gym at Loughborough and they had a dynamic erg which I understand is fairly similar. I plonked myself down for a workout expecting a bit of a learning curve. Approx 10 mins later, I gave up and skulked away embarrassed in my inability to make the thing "work" :lol:

Claudius - I hope to see you participating in the CTC for many months to come :fsbgrin: :fsbgrin:
Image
51, 6'2" and trying to get back to 90kg post hip replacement. Looking back fondly on past achievements I've no chance of repeating
Liefcat
Free Spirit forever
Posts: 4116
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:24 am
I row on...: Model C with PM3

Re: About slides

Post by Liefcat »

As I understood the discussion it accepts the current rules, but some people want to change them. As I see the rules they are not written in stone, so I welcome a discussion of them.
Image

Old enough to know better - young enough to do it anyway
paulgould
Super Dedicated and Truly Free Spirit
Posts: 2801
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:40 am
I row on...: Model D with PM3
Location: Ryde, IOW

Re: About slides

Post by paulgould »

The CTC rules allow for the use of slides so I have no issue with them - when it comes to championships and records then I think that is a different story and shouldn't be allowed/recognised, but that is not what this discussion is about.
Claudius, you carry on doing your thing, and don't be put off by the naysayers.

Paul G
56, 1.74m , Sep '20 - 114 kg , currently - 98 kg
Image
200m - 30.8
300m - 47.7
30r20 - 7754m
12 hr - 139300m
100 mile - 14:10.12
200km - 18:28.30
User avatar
duffyoz
Rower and forum addict...
Posts: 228
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:31 pm
I row on...: Model E with PM5
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: About slides

Post by duffyoz »

How ridiculous that people are "discussing" if slides should count. They are clearly in the rules of a friendly competition. There is no gold for coming first, perhaps some friendly banter? I wouldnt be surprised if there are others that row on slides or bend the rules a little by using rolling starts on CTC's that say no rolling starts, or some other minor infringements. There is an almost continuous stream of online erg competitions if people want to compete and have their name in lights on an instagram post. These competitions as well as the concept records and WRIC do not allow slides or dynamic ergs. Where else can slide users compete if not in this type of team event.

Keep doing your thing Claudius. You do you because after all, you do you better than anybody else.

Leave our Claudius alone!
Image
User avatar
Claudius
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2019
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2019
Posts: 465
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:36 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Oberpfalz, Bavaria, Germany

Re: About slides

Post by Claudius »

Thank you very much, all of you, for your answers ! I already made an attempt. I already put in a score. Not my score. Was it on Slides Yes or No- I am still a static erger at work...made a small comic on the c2 fb group. As you all know, i love fantasy stories, also a sci fi fantasy story like star wars, or Erg Wars :lol: :idea:
Image
“Do you wish me a good morning, or mean that it is a good morning whether I want it or not; or that you feel good this morning; or that it is a morning to be good on?”
(J.R.R.T.)
Liefcat
Free Spirit forever
Posts: 4116
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:24 am
I row on...: Model C with PM3

Re: About slides

Post by Liefcat »

In the earlier days of ctc there was discussion almost every month. These endless discussion could seem pretty tiresome. Paul Buchanan (Butch) often participated in the discussions, and to his merit he made the guidelines for entries on the ctc site. I totally understand that a new discussion is "irritating", but as several have suggested, you should keep doing your "thing" regardless, Claudius. :fssmile:
Image

Old enough to know better - young enough to do it anyway
User avatar
Claudius
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2019
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2019
Posts: 465
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:36 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Oberpfalz, Bavaria, Germany

Re: About slides

Post by Claudius »

It was in April this year when "my coach" said "buy some slides" and I bought some slides with a brand new erg (see in Photos my Ergo). What timing! Now the discussion about slides is back. And my point is not to advocate either side. There are reasonable arguments for both sides. From the perspective of accuracy, the "I want to nail it" comparison, slides should be banned, yes. "My coach" says, "Participating in c2ctc is already a kind of freakness, it's already a pretty exclusive club, banning an official c2 product (not a third part) gives that club an exclusivity that is too much for our philosophy. That's why I'm saying goodbye. I (as a flesh and blood human) fully understand the arguments of the static ergers. I'm not being pissed off. I'm not whining. It is what it is. They represent the profane earthbound perspective. "My coach" is on the other side. The divine perspective says no. And that's the way it is.
You can read my little comic about this on the C2 FB page. I recommend reading the comments. It reveals a lot. I wouldn't be talking about this if it weren't for a fellow contributor who started this conversation. Interesting person. My coach said, "Look, this man was hanging out with the guy with the hammer." There are so many nice pm5 screenshots posts on FB. Why creating another nice pm5 screenshot post ? The true meaning about all this is something completely different. Read the comic (and the comments).
Image
“Do you wish me a good morning, or mean that it is a good morning whether I want it or not; or that you feel good this morning; or that it is a morning to be good on?”
(J.R.R.T.)
User avatar
JonT
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Posts: 1539
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:31 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Bath, Somerset, UK

Re: About slides

Post by JonT »

I cann't see your FB post I'm afraid Claudius. FB does make it very hard to find things - it seems to think it knows far better than you do what you want to see, which is frustrating at best.

I'm sad that you will no longer be participating in the CTC for us. I agree with you that this is making an already exclusive competition, which was always geared to encouraging participation, even more exclusive. I really don;t understand why people are getting so hot and bothered about it all. This isn't the World Championship for goodness sake. Anyway, they have succeeded in pushing you out. That is more than a little sad. But I know you will still contribute to the group in many other ways.

Jon
55 years old, 5"10', clinging on to 75kg and frustratingly but understandably inconsistent
Image
User avatar
Claudius
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2019
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2019
Posts: 465
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:36 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Oberpfalz, Bavaria, Germany

Re: About slides

Post by Claudius »

Image
“Do you wish me a good morning, or mean that it is a good morning whether I want it or not; or that you feel good this morning; or that it is a morning to be good on?”
(J.R.R.T.)
User avatar
Tako
Best Friend (PayPal Subscriber)
Best Friend (PayPal Subscriber)
Posts: 904
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 5:42 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Norway

Re: About slides

Post by Tako »

Jon, I have the same problem. The latest link only takes me to the group but not to the relevant post/thread. Searching for it didn’t help. One of the reasons I am trying to avoid FB as much as I can.
As stated earlier I left all the groups because they steel too much of my time without adding the value the time is worth.

I haven’t followed the discussions but it strikes me that some people always get so occupied with details in the CTC (also saw years ago where they accused people of doping that have served their sentence and now claim to be clean etc.), while at the same time they allow SkiErg scores.
Maybe slides should mark themselves like the SkiErg scores (not all do).

The underlying point in my opinion is that people have different views on what the CTC is about/for.
If one makes the rules too strict it will loose it’s purposes which in my opinion are many like bringing virtual teams closer to each other, motivate people to do a workout, show off, compete, discuss, …
After I found out that the workouts seldom benefit my training plan and sometimes even are harmful like these crazy sprints I only do them slowly/half-power if at all to avoid injury but still putting in a score for the team.

Therefore, I think Claudius you should put your real score in and maybe make a new profile (or change its name) just like some people have two profiles, one for Row and one for Ski. Or actually, just put it in as usual.

If people running the CTC make a fuzz of it I think I will drop it completely because then it really becomes a joke. After all it is a system based on honesty, no world championship, just a motivational competition…..

Just my 2 cents
\:D/ 🏴‍☠️🇳🇱🇩🇪🇩🇰🇳🇴🇪🇺
Image
User avatar
Claudius
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2019
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2019
Posts: 465
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:36 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Oberpfalz, Bavaria, Germany

Re: About slides

Post by Claudius »

thank you for your answers, strange, if I open the link on any pc, it directs me to the post, even on a pc in the hospital (in which fb is forbidden). Ok reading the comic or not, here the quint essence:
- it is about meditation/spirituality - the ctc and if slides are allowed or not is a secondary story
- one can reach what in kundalini yoga is reffered to as the heart chakra in a very low Z1 intensity row- no distractions, no music, no screens, closed eyes- quite well
- it is not kundalini yoga - it remains indoor rowing, the spiritual experience based on the same inner process, different physical approach
- with slides it is "easier", one can get better into this "flow of the moment", because there are less disturbing shear forces and a wonderful feel of balanced forces
- now let's discuss the crown, the intensity here is incredible low, the spirituality incredible high
Image
“Do you wish me a good morning, or mean that it is a good morning whether I want it or not; or that you feel good this morning; or that it is a morning to be good on?”
(J.R.R.T.)
Wolfmiester
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Posts: 3929
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2006 2:16 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Henley in Arden, UK

Re: About slides

Post by Wolfmiester »

sorry, very late to this ... As all have said before, FS is all about participation, so I hope you do continue Claudius. You are "world class" to us :-)
Wolfie

Image
Age 57 Height 6'4" Weight 89k
User avatar
Ian Bee
Dedicated and True Free Spirit
Posts: 1095
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:27 am
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Wilts., UK

Re: About slides

Post by Ian Bee »

I'm sure that some will have already seen, but the vote/poll results for CTC rule changes are out and around 2/3 voted to exclude slides.

I think PaulG and others summarised the position perfectly well above.
User avatar
Tako
Best Friend (PayPal Subscriber)
Best Friend (PayPal Subscriber)
Posts: 904
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 5:42 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Norway

Re: About slides

Post by Tako »

Thanks Ian, I am not following that forum and hence I was not aware of a poll. Do I get it right that they ban slides and allow the SkiErg or has that one been excluded as well?
\:D/ 🏴‍☠️🇳🇱🇩🇪🇩🇰🇳🇴🇪🇺
Image
User avatar
Claudius
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2019
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2019
Posts: 465
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:36 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Oberpfalz, Bavaria, Germany

Re: About slides

Post by Claudius »

Thanks Steve, Ian and Tako! I welcome any discussion. So I was not offended. Nonetheless. As I said, one part says yes, slides could give you an advantage over a static, my other [divine] part says no, that's it, with that exclusion this challenge becomes too exclusive, goodbye! It is a "free spiritual" matter! We still wait for the official rule change, so then the time has come, for "exclusive order 66" ;-) ! It's not about death, that was just a pointed provocation. Yes and No. Again. A "free spiritual" matter !
Image
“Do you wish me a good morning, or mean that it is a good morning whether I want it or not; or that you feel good this morning; or that it is a morning to be good on?”
(J.R.R.T.)
User avatar
Ian Bee
Dedicated and True Free Spirit
Posts: 1095
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:27 am
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Wilts., UK

Re: About slides

Post by Ian Bee »

Tako wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 8:05 pm Thanks Ian, I am not following that forum and hence I was not aware of a poll. Do I get it right that they ban slides and allow the SkiErg or has that one been excluded as well?
This was only about slides as far as I can gather.
User avatar
Mat
Super Dedicated and Truly Free Spirit
Posts: 3644
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:57 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Anglesey, North Wales
Contact:

Re: About slides

Post by Mat »

I don't follow the forum so wasn't aware of the vote either. I am disappointed to read of the result which seems unnecessarily exclusionary. I do hope that this doesn't end your participation Claudius
Image
51, 6'2" and trying to get back to 90kg post hip replacement. Looking back fondly on past achievements I've no chance of repeating
Liefcat
Free Spirit forever
Posts: 4116
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:24 am
I row on...: Model C with PM3

Re: About slides

Post by Liefcat »

I voted YES in the poll to allow the use of slides in the ctc. Though I must admit that it´s not a strong opinion, only a slight preference...
Image

Old enough to know better - young enough to do it anyway
paulgould
Super Dedicated and Truly Free Spirit
Posts: 2801
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:40 am
I row on...: Model D with PM3
Location: Ryde, IOW

Re: About slides

Post by paulgould »

Liefcat wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:21 pm I voted YES in the poll to allow the use of slides in the ctc. Though I must admit that it´s not a strong opinion, only a slight preference...
Where is this poll?
56, 1.74m , Sep '20 - 114 kg , currently - 98 kg
Image
200m - 30.8
300m - 47.7
30r20 - 7754m
12 hr - 139300m
100 mile - 14:10.12
200km - 18:28.30
User avatar
JonT
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Posts: 1539
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:31 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Bath, Somerset, UK

Re: About slides

Post by JonT »

paulgould wrote:
Where is this poll?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/8114351 ... ?fs=e&s=cl


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
55 years old, 5"10', clinging on to 75kg and frustratingly but understandably inconsistent
Image
paulgould
Super Dedicated and Truly Free Spirit
Posts: 2801
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:40 am
I row on...: Model D with PM3
Location: Ryde, IOW

Re: About slides

Post by paulgould »

JonT wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:53 pm
paulgould wrote:
Where is this poll?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/8114351 ... ?fs=e&s=cl


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks Jon
56, 1.74m , Sep '20 - 114 kg , currently - 98 kg
Image
200m - 30.8
300m - 47.7
30r20 - 7754m
12 hr - 139300m
100 mile - 14:10.12
200km - 18:28.30
obirobsan
Spends too much time in the forum
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed May 04, 2022 9:28 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5

Re: About slides

Post by obirobsan »

I woulda voted for allowing slides. Really, who cares. There are plenty of people faster than me (even enormously so) with or without slides, I'd rather have more people participating than raise my own position a notch or two by kicking them out.
Image
Post Reply