Strength training(on and off the erg)

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paulgould
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by paulgould »

Kevinhorne44 wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 12:23 pm Wow Paul 120k walk over two day !! 48 k for a Saturday stroll πŸ˜‚

Doesn't sound to bad on the erg either πŸ‘ I'm always amazed by your DF πŸ™ˆ

I'm going to start building in more pace to my training in June. I think it's going to be a shock πŸ˜‚πŸ™ˆπŸ˜‚
I'm sure you'll cope :lol: :lol:
Probably less erging for me in the next few months - I have the erg outside, and I don't like the heat.
Started getting overheated near the end of my walk yesterday - 36km on the South Coast of the island - absolutely spectacular scenery!!
Getting my bike fixed up tomorrow so will try and get in some early morning riding too, and maybe even a few swims!!

Paul G
56, 1.74m , Sep '20 - 114 kg , currently - 98 kg
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200m - 30.8
300m - 47.7
30r20 - 7754m
12 hr - 139300m
100 mile - 14:10.12
200km - 18:28.30
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by paulgould »

Continuing to make gains - have incorporated daily push-ups into my routine and I feel they are a massive help.
Have had a few cycles between 20km and 45 km and a few longish walks(35km on Saturday).

Today I did an SB on the 30min and felt really good - set out with the aim of doing 7000m+ - went through 15 mins at 2:08.0 average @ 21.2 spm and did the second 15 mins at 2:00.8 @ 22.4 spm.
Ended up with 7233m - no great distance but it was at a reasonable RPE and felt the strongest I have felt since about 2018.

Time : 30:00.0
Distance : 7233m
SPM : 21.8
DF : 360

Paul G
56, 1.74m , Sep '20 - 114 kg , currently - 98 kg
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200m - 30.8
300m - 47.7
30r20 - 7754m
12 hr - 139300m
100 mile - 14:10.12
200km - 18:28.30
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by Kevinhorne44 »

Walking cycling plus bodyweight exercises ImageImage great combination Paul. That seasons best sounds well deserved ImageImage its always great when you feel you have another gear.

How are your plans for walking around the island going ??

I've managed to hit some of my short term goals recently too. In the pictures.
I did have a bit of fun with a few 100m runs inbetween sessions. (16.4 @1:22 all 3 attempts) But most of my aim has been aerobic base with <75% MHR (150) average being the key.
I've started a pilate class on Mondays too Image the rest of my sessions are going well. I'm managing to fit in all my planned workouts. The Ski-erg is definitely a beast. But I'm enjoying the challenge.
I'm dreading choosing a TT distance ImageImage HM/60minute or 10k ???ImageImage

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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by paulgould »

Thanks Kevin

Looks like your training is going well too - back in the day I used to do a lot of sprints and managed to get down to 15.0 for the 100m where I was not nearly as powerful as you are - it is all in the technique - i.e. Throw proper technique out the window, shorten stroke and throw the handle away from yourself in the recovery - you need to be hitting 60+ spm and not too heavy on the DF.

My training is starting to pick up now - my latest blood tests came back very positive and the heart failure clinic has discharged me from their care, so I am now pushing it a little more, getting the stroke rate up to 22-23, which still keeps my HR relatively low.
I am planning to do my round IOW walk next Thursday and Friday - 60 or 65 km on day one(depending on what time I get to Freshwater - 60km). the last bus leaves Alum Bay(65km) at 6.30 pm.
Day 2 will then either be 50km or 55km.

Paul G
56, 1.74m , Sep '20 - 114 kg , currently - 98 kg
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200m - 30.8
300m - 47.7
30r20 - 7754m
12 hr - 139300m
100 mile - 14:10.12
200km - 18:28.30
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by Iain »

Hope it goes well Paul. Re sprinting, i too like these, but the potential for injury is huge. I now only do these at restricted ratings (usually 30SPM). Paul, what is "not too high Df" for you? Don't tell me you actually put the cage back on :lol:
52 year old Lwt (in ability and weight) trying to develop a technique that doesn't cause hysterics and start rowing regularly now I am working again.
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by paulgould »

Iain wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:25 am Hope it goes well Paul. Re sprinting, i too like these, but the potential for injury is huge. I now only do these at restricted ratings (usually 30SPM). Paul, what is "not too high Df" for you? Don't tell me you actually put the cage back on :lol:
Thanks Iain - you won't believe me when I tell you this, but I set my fastest 100m times(and 500m) over 10 years ago at a df of 160-170.
I haven't done any flat-out sprinting since 2011 when I got my AF diagnosis and I was put on medication, including beta-blockers.
It was at this point that I adopted the mantra of "You can never be too strong" and removed the mesh grille.
I did put the grille back on for a few months after my CA last year(partly to convince my wife that I understood the value of doing things in moderation :lol: :lol: ), but once my recovery was nearly complete I removed the grille again, which I am far more comfortable with.

Re the sprinting - unless you are a monster like Rob Smith for example, it is really difficult to get up to speed quickly on a 100m using high DF, so while you may not get as good a max power output, you will gain more with the quicker start over the first 3 or 4 strokes(a significant portion of the 100m) using the lower DF.

Paul G
56, 1.74m , Sep '20 - 114 kg , currently - 98 kg
Image
200m - 30.8
300m - 47.7
30r20 - 7754m
12 hr - 139300m
100 mile - 14:10.12
200km - 18:28.30
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by Iain »

Paul, I certainly agree with you for myself, more than 155 and the time goes down. personally I have never got close to maximal HR on a standalone 100. It only start to go up near the end and peaks 10S after I have finished, and that is rowing for a lot longer than you would be. I have managed 21 strokes a couple of times! Although my biggest issue is staying on the seat, having finished many arms and back only while sitting on the rail!
52 year old Lwt (in ability and weight) trying to develop a technique that doesn't cause hysterics and start rowing regularly now I am working again.
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by paulgould »

Iain wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:16 pm Paul, I certainly agree with you for myself, more than 155 and the time goes down. personally I have never got close to maximal HR on a standalone 100. It only start to go up near the end and peaks 10S after I have finished, and that is rowing for a lot longer than you would be. I have managed 21 strokes a couple of times! Although my biggest issue is staying on the seat, having finished many arms and back only while sitting on the rail!
Yes, coming off the seat is a strong possibility at 60+ spm - the popular advice is to put the foot stretchers higher so you are pushing down rather than up but the downside of that is less of your foot on the fooplate, so less force. Always been amazed that Rob Smith can deliver all that power so smoothly at 60 spm!!

Back to today's session - another "post-CA" best - 50:25 for 12k - 22.8 spm on DF 345.
Started out slowly and averaged 2:08.5 for the first 6 km, 2:03.5 for the second 6 km - felt I had plenty left in the tank so very pleased with the recent increased rate of progress.
Also managed a sub 2:00 CTC this month which is another big step in the right direction - felt confident enough to up the spm to 24.5 and managed to keep my HR well under control - did this CTC on DF 255 and it felt very comfortable.

Paul G
56, 1.74m , Sep '20 - 114 kg , currently - 98 kg
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200m - 30.8
300m - 47.7
30r20 - 7754m
12 hr - 139300m
100 mile - 14:10.12
200km - 18:28.30
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by Kevinhorne44 »

Paul 60spm ImageImageImage I love a challenge Image

I dare not put these in the PP thread.

These are just a snap shot of my 3 weekly core type sessions. I warm up before & stretch after each one. I use a tabata timer to keep me honest. All done in around 45 minutes.

If it doesn't make sense to anyone just ask. I might use funny names for some exercises.ImageImageImage

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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by Kevinhorne44 »

Forgot to say I'm doing at least 2 compound lift sessions each week at the moment too

Iain you can do all of these using a kettlebell. Dont worry about the weight 10kg is more than enough.

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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by Iain »

Thanks Kevin, although due to my ignorance few of the words mean anything, I will have to do some research! Any preferences for items that are good for Lat pulls?
52 year old Lwt (in ability and weight) trying to develop a technique that doesn't cause hysterics and start rowing regularly now I am working again.
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by Kevinhorne44 »

Iain wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:53 am Thanks Kevin, although due to my ignorance few of the words mean anything, I will have to do some research! Any preferences for items that are good for Lat pulls?
D/B row but using your kettlebell as heavy as you can manage while maintaining full range of movement. Think "long" as you would a stroke. Don't just lower it for the next lift. Maintaining tension slowly lower the kettlebell. You would do the same with bent over row too. But using both arms.

The same with press ups. Slowly down push up πŸ‘

G 2 SKY with a kettlebell is a pull just like power cleans.

Kettlebell swings (not on the list) great exercise.

I wouldn't just do Lat work on it's own. I'd just add some extra lat work onto a session.

Happy to help Iain just ask if your unsure of anything πŸ‘
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by duffyoz »

So many life disruptions to my training in the last few weeks - quite disappointing really. Rowing is mostly 80% HR and it is slowly requiring/getting a faster pace on a 118 DF and 18-20 rating. My erg coach has an OTW background, used to row for the czech republic 8 (I think it was the 8) and the 80% thing is very common in that arena. Haven't been able to advance the weights much since I have had to skip a few sessions and now have aggravated an old labral hip tear. The muscles surrounding the hip are all weird now but the hip itself has settled down. Lucky it doesn't seem to be bothered by rowing at all. Moving towards a new strength program soon but focused on hip rehab, core. Still amazes me how much benefit can be gained from simple exercises like step ups, I was using the low part of the garden wall, add some weight if you want it to be harder. Even lunges are simple and can pay dividend. Still I do love my power rack :)

As a bare minimum I get in the 3 training rows each week and as much as whatever else I can manage. About 4 weeks to go before I enter the 12 weeks run down to the Nationals and my favourite 2k. That will be fun as I have missed all the speed work but I think I might not be saying that when the "bastard 750's" get scheduled.
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by Kevinhorne44 »

Sorry to hear about the hip flare up Lesley Image but 4 weeks is a good amount of time for it to settle down. The B'd 750s ImageImage I know them well now !!

Iain have you tried anything yet ??

I started using a Polar smart watch for June. Boy o Boy it keeps you honest. Especially the weekly summary Image Image

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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by Iain »

Kevin, will try after I have done the CTC. Did manage a few press ups and planks. Unfortunately I have little time to row, so won't be doing more than the odd weight exercise. If I have time to fit in a strength session I prefer to do it on the erg, but only 1 so far this year!
52 year old Lwt (in ability and weight) trying to develop a technique that doesn't cause hysterics and start rowing regularly now I am working again.
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by Kevinhorne44 »

Another target reached today Image
50km on the Bike-erg at <2:00 <75%MHRImageImage

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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by paulgould »

Very nice Kevin =D> =D>

I did a 71km ride on the road on Saturday and it was wonderful - with the weight loss I am enjoying the uphills for the first time in a long while, and will look at doing the Round Island route in the next week or two (106km, 1400m or thereabouts altitude gain).

Starting my round island walk on Thursday and am hoping that the weather plays along (not too hot, or too wet).

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200m - 30.8
300m - 47.7
30r20 - 7754m
12 hr - 139300m
100 mile - 14:10.12
200km - 18:28.30
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by duffyoz »

Kevin - which polar watch did you buy. I have been a regular user of my ignite which I use for S&C but I use a OH1 (armband) for rowing and connect that to the monitor. Had some hiccups changing to polar flow app now it can be used to log training as opposed to the polar beat app you had to use previously. I also use the ignite to keep a lose track of sleep and recovery. Really interesting to see my HRV drop and overnight resting hr go up about 2 weeks after surgery and take a month or more to go back after I started training. I have never been successful in getting the ignite to connect to the PM5 only the OH1.

Erg work is going well as my R18 work now needs to be at 2.16-2.17 pace to get to 80% hr - it was 2.18 - 2.19 so perhaps getting somewhere. I did do a 65%hr 60min bikeerg which the hip/quad had some mild objections to.

Since Brisbane is in a (currently) 3 day lockdown , and I'm doing 12 hr days to enable as many samples as possible to be taken - every 3 hours - erging just doesnt fit before work. Perhaps I could bring the erg to work for 2 days - nobody else is here as they have to work from home until next week :fsgrin: , Might have to post a sign to warn of strange noises.
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by Kevinhorne44 »

GO Paul !! 71km 😎 I'm doing the odd ride on the road but only 20km. 106km ride around the island sound wonderful. Especially if you had enough cake n coffee stops πŸ™‚πŸ˜‚
I hope the weather is kind for you tomorrow. Looks good at the moment πŸ‘

Lesley "what polar did I buy" I could write a bloody book on my search πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚
I went for the Vantage V (not V2) I bought it with the H10 as a package for just over Β£200. I purchased from Amazon in the end. But watch their pricing !! It ranged from Β£200 to Β£350 !!
I sync the HRmonitor & watch together. But the watch alone has been really good. With ergdata & ergzone being a faff with bluetooth at the moment. I've been using the PM5 & polar separately. It gives me enough numbers to stare at for hours πŸ˜³πŸ˜‚
I really like the sleep info & my ANS numbers. The ongoing cardio load status is great. Having something balancing up all your variables is a great aid. Even if it only confirms that your "knackered" πŸ˜‚
I haven't tried an orthostatic or fitness test yet. But I will be hopefully soon. The constant heartrate monitoring throughout the day has been very interesting. It's also proved to Lorraine that I hardly sit down all day 😜😜 not to mention the step rivalry πŸ˜‚

Taking the erg to work sounds a great idea 😎
But only if you have a shower available !! I now have a bin of shame to put all my post erg kit into πŸ€’πŸ˜‚ plus my own mop & bucket for the floor πŸ˜³πŸ˜‚ long steady state sure does produce perspiration!! πŸ˜³πŸ˜‚
It's great when you start seeing the split times drop but the heartrate remains constant. It takes a while but is worth it in the end πŸ‘
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by Iain »

Great to see all the excellent training going on. Still not done any KBs :oops: but week off next week so hope to try something then (if I get through enough of the jobs on the list my better half has prepared!) :lol: .
duffyoz wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:59 amErg work is going well as my R18 work now needs to be at 2.16-2.17 pace to get to 80% hr - it was 2.18 - 2.19 so perhaps getting somewhere. I did do a 65%hr 60min bikeerg which the hip/quad had some mild objections to.
That's really impressive Lesley. Never understood my HR response. at that pace my HR after an hour is about 85% max, hence why I am being "flexible" with HR targets. Also I find the variation from other causes (sleep, food, needing loo, coffee etc) makes a huge difference.
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by duffyoz »

As I have an OTW coach writing my erg program there is nothing but 80% HR work at the moment. Apparently quite common for OTW people aiming at specific races in the year for which they target 6-12 weeks of speed work and taper for that 2k. I'm happy with hr going up to 82-84% in the final rep but if it was doing that for the bulk of the time I'm supposed to slow down but stick to the rate that was set. Rate is usually 18, 20 or a little bit of 22 or 24. I believe it only works if you do loads of it - in my case 3 times a week for an hour session. If I watch closely I can see hr go up or down by changing the pace by only 1 or 2 splits. Confession - I am a bit numbers focused.

FYI my training connection process (detail)
turn OH1 on
turn polar flow on (Samsung note 9), go to training section, push Start
ensure session is indoor rowing or indoor cycling or whatever
wait a couple of secs for polar flow to 'find' OH1 - the OH1 is already selected as the one to connect to, I don't change that often
press start (bottom of screen)
Note this is the bluetooth connection
press connect on PM5, connect OH1 via ANT+
Open ergzone, find the workout, press connect
Workout appears on PM5, bluetooth from phone to PM5
Voila - all good - That is from memory so I hope its correct.

If I am using the Ignite watch ie at erg group, I don't connect to the erg, I just record the session on the watch and sync it afterwards to polar flow.

Not sure how helpful it might be for your bluetooth issues but concept list a difference between bluetooth and bluetooth smart, also some one told me that some phones have a limited number of bluetooth connections. I'm not particularly tech savvy though.
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by Kevinhorne44 »

Iain don't beat yourself up about missing sessions or not starting any KB work. Life gets in the way, hopefully you'll have time soon Image

Paul how did you get on with your walk ??

Lesley my rowing guru is big on aerobic base work too. Same on the 12 weeks to find the speed. I only have 2 zones for my row-erg ski-erg and bike-erg sessions.
Zone 1 <150bpm & Zone 3 MHR ( my range is 43-185).
I don't do anything inbetween. At the moment I'm trying to aim for 4 hours in my green zone (polar) per week. It's so hard to go slower and maintain the heartrate somedays especially with demons on your shoulder saying this is easy. Definitely an art in maintaining a 75% average over an hour piece. Not a easy skill to learn for an old strength athlete ImageImage

I've also started pilates every Monday for an hour Image not taxing on my heart though. Mid session it was 43 bpm Image some interesting core movements though Image

Your tech prep pre workout made me smile.
I'm a great one for numbers too. Sometimes all the faff just gets in the way for me. Lately I've been just setting the PM5 and connecting the H10 then using the polar vantage to record the data.
I'm trying to row-erg 6 times a week sometimes only as a warm up & cool down for other sessions. My shoulder AC joint has nearly cleared up by sharing the tough pieces with the bike-erg.

Another 50km yesterday on the bike-erg :-
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by paulgould »

Kevinhorne44 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:11 pm
Paul how did you get on with your walk ??
Hi Kevin - to cut a long story short - Coastal Path 1 Paul 0 :lol: :lol:

Made the schoolboy error of trying out new equipment on the day- in this case new thinner, lighter socks - my feet were shredded after about 35km and I landed up shuffling the next 30 or so km at a snail's pace - the section that I had covered 2weeks previously in under 3 hrs took me over 5 hrs.It was also quite hot and muggy with what little breeze there was behind me.
My phone told me I covered 73km but I think it was closer to 65km in reality as in the second half I was taking far shorter steps than normal and I think it calculates the distance from the number of steps taken - it was pretty accurate for the first 30 or 40km - (for the record I did 97500 steps).
I decided not to even start the second day as my feet were just too sore - I had a light row and had a 5-6km walk(in sandals) though just to get rid of slight DOMS in my quads.
Had a really good row yesterday (8k) where I felt pretty much fully recovered, and had a go at this months CTC this morning, with no ill effects.

I am planning to have another go at this walk in 2 weeks time, but over 3 days(40km per day).

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56, 1.74m , Sep '20 - 114 kg , currently - 98 kg
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200m - 30.8
300m - 47.7
30r20 - 7754m
12 hr - 139300m
100 mile - 14:10.12
200km - 18:28.30
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by Iain »

Sounds painful Paul, but you have my admiration for completing 30km with very sore feet. I think 3 days sounds more reasonable!
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by Wolfmiester »

97500 steps :shock: ^O^ =D>
Well done Paul, hope the feet have recovered ok. As you say, a proper schoolboy error there :lol:

Really like this thread and have been lurking. I'm OTW 4-5 times a week at the moment, plus golf 2-3 times, so the gym has drastically reduced for now.

Kevin, your core sessions might well have been taken from some of the sessions I paid a lot of money for in Q1 :lol: So you are definitely doing a lot very right!
What do the rep numbers actually mean? I'm used to 5x12/30s for example, but can't quite work yours out :-k
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