May ctc - 1‘, standing start

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Re: May ctc - 1‘, standing start

Post by Grobi »

That‘s a great score Ron and congrats on your PB! If you‘re having another go you might want to move up the foot plate by one hole. Therefore your leg drive is in a more horizontal direction.
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Re: May ctc - 1‘, standing start

Post by Draggon »

Thanks for the tip, Peter! That aligns with what I picked up by searching the Concept2 forum for sprinting tips! Kind of wish I had it on film... that first yank had to be hilarious. In hindsight, I'm probably lucky I didn't hurt myself!
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Re: May ctc - 1‘, standing start

Post by Sandbaggerone »

Lots of good efforts here. Just had a go after a 5k slow warmup. Not sure I'll try again.

Cheers,
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Re: May ctc - 1‘, standing start

Post by Paul Victory »

I managed a slight improvement today to 298m. It's somewhat depressing how far I am behind where I used to be. But I guess if I keep plugging away, things might improve (a bit).
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Re: May ctc - 1‘, standing start

Post by JonT »

Paul Victory wrote: Thu May 28, 2020 10:48 pm I managed a slight improvement today to 298m. It's somewhat depressing how far I am behind where I used to be. But I guess if I keep plugging away, things might improve (a bit).
Well done for even doing this Paul, especially more than once.

You know far better than I that plugging away and sticking with it will bring improvements in the medium term. Just take care in the way. Flogging away at a 1 min sprint didn’t feel like a good plan anyway to be honest!
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Re: May ctc - 1‘, standing start

Post by JonT »

plummy wrote: Thu May 21, 2020 6:49 pm Just need 2m to pip JonT - so may have one more go...
Make that 4m Plummy. :twisted:

I just had to have another crack at it before the end of the month. This attempt was actually far easier. In my first attempt I had no idea at all what I was aiming for. On this one I found it easier to hit a pace to go over 310 and then just stick to it. I didn't have anything left at the end, but it was far less frantic. Looking at the data, I just hit 400 watts and stuck there all the way through.

This also improves my PB by 2m. This is quite odd really given I have been pretty exclusively doing r18 rows over 30-60 minutes. :fsbgrin:

Anyone know why the row is showing in the log as 313m but the single split shows 314???

There's still time Mr P.
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Re: May ctc - 1‘, standing start

Post by Paul Victory »

JonT wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 1:25 pm
Anyone know why the row is showing in the log as 313m but the single split shows 314???

There's still time Mr P.
I think the overall total is rounded down whereas the split is shown to the nearest meter. So it means you covered somewhere between 313.50 and 313.99 meters.

Thanks for the encouragement. I'll have another go tomorrow or Sunday. I was under time pressure yesterday and I probably went a bit harder than I should have on the warm up and then didn't take a long enough break before starting the CTC yesterday. So maybe I'll manage to squeeze out an extra few minutes next time around.

In other news, I persuaded the lovely Jennifer to do the challenge today as I know we are always short of females to round out our boats. Turns out there's no shortage this month, but 2 rowers of any description are needed to fill boat 6.
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Re: May ctc - 1‘, standing start

Post by JonT »

Paul Victory wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 2:44 pm Thanks for the encouragement.
Which bit of "Flogging away at a 1 min sprint didn’t feel like a good plan anyway" did you see as encouragement to have another go!!?? #-o
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Re: May ctc - 1‘, standing start

Post by Wolfmiester »

Had a rare 2nd effort this month as I was "sure" I could do 333 and jump a few places.
WRONG :-) :))
There was the odd predicted 335, but that was only after 20s, amazing how a minute can be so draining :-)
330m achieved.
I can't do any more.

(meanwhile, James was convinced 370m was in range for him. A 2nd attempt saw no gain, but a 3rd attempt sees 368m)
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Re: May ctc - 1‘, standing start

Post by Grobi »

That‘s still a very impressive score Steve, well done! You‘re rowing out of your skin at the moment.
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Re: May ctc - 1‘, standing start

Post by plummy »

JonT wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 1:25 pm
plummy wrote: Thu May 21, 2020 6:49 pm Just need 2m to pip JonT - so may have one more go...
Make that 4m Plummy. :twisted:

I just had to have another crack at it before the end of the month. This attempt was actually far easier. In my first attempt I had no idea at all what I was aiming for. On this one I found it easier to hit a pace to go over 310 and then just stick to it. I didn't have anything left at the end, but it was far less frantic. Looking at the data, I just hit 400 watts and stuck there all the way through.

This also improves my PB by 2m. This is quite odd really given I have been pretty exclusively doing r18 rows over 30-60 minutes. :fsbgrin:

Anyone know why the row is showing in the log as 313m but the single split shows 314???

There's still time Mr P.
Looks like it's yours again this month Mr T. Tried again with 5 holes showing (by best "feel" position for a good leg drive) and despite managing to get another 2m to 311m now -your attempt the other day keeps you out of my grasp...just. With 5~7s to go it flashed up as 312m predicted finish but it dropped back to 311m and wouldn't have been enough anyway.. :-(
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Re: May ctc - 1‘, standing start

Post by Draggon »

Well, I'm not sure what I was expecting, but I wasn't expecting this...

I adjusted the footplate, and that most definitely helped with my flying-off-the-seat problem and allowed for an all-out effort.

Honestly, I thought I could maintain about any pace I was capable of getting to for 1 minute - I mean, c'mon!

But alas, I found out the hard way that I'm a wuss. I actually HD'ed with about 15 seconds left. Up to the 30 second mark, I was on pace for a 340+ effort. I didn't want to try again...
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Re: May ctc - 1‘, standing start

Post by JonT »

Draggon wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 6:27 pm Well, I'm not sure what I was expecting, but I wasn't expecting this..
But alas, I found out the hard way that I'm a wuss. I actually HD'ed with about 15 seconds left. Up to the 30 second mark, I was on pace for a 340+ effort. I didn't want to try again...
Isn’t it amazing how much impact just one minute of rowing can have on you. Someone with a sports science background would be able to tell us what is going on anatomically to make this so hard.

In my last row I went from an HR of 106 to 180 in 60 seconds. It doesn’t get more full on than that!
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Re: May ctc - 1‘, standing start

Post by Draggon »

JonT wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 7:43 pmIsn’t it amazing how much impact just one minute of rowing can have on you.
Sure is! I am suitably humbled... :)
In my last row I went from an HR of 106 to 180 in 60 seconds. It doesn’t get more full on than that!
:shock: :~c

I haven't seen my HR top 165 in my entire life. I just don't think I'm wired to go higher. If I get around 152+ while rowing, I'm about done.
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Re: May ctc - 1‘, standing start

Post by MaxMacLaren1 »

Rowing once in three weeks wasn't the ideal preparation but I was still hoping for 1:30. Unfortunately the erg was jumping around so much that the monitor fell backwards so I had no idea how I was doing. Managed 1:30.6 which is 331 meters.

Apologies to Wolfie, and respect to Tako and Fred for the fantastic scores that I couldn't reach even in full fitness.

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Re: May ctc - 1‘, standing start

Post by Tako »

Thanks Max!
Yes, pretty jumpy these short sprints.
To be honest, I already expected you to enter a last minute score! ;-)
Somewhat relieved to see it was shorter, as it has been a while since I was in Boat 1 on the last day.
Hope you get back to regular rowing soon!
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Re: May ctc - 1‘, standing start

Post by Wolfmiester »

Not bad Max on a wooden floor! :D
I forgive you.
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Re: May ctc - 1‘, standing start

Post by Paul Victory »

I decided to have one final go yesterday after my 30 minute TT.

I lasted just under 20 seconds before sanity prevailed and I hd’ed. I think slow and steady has to be my mantra until I regain some level of fitness.
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Re: May ctc - 1‘, standing start

Post by MaxMacLaren1 »

What Ron and Paul V describe happens to me as well. I can feel it on the erg and see it the C2 workout graph. After a few seconds I dip a little and after c45 second I start falling off a cliff. The first one is after a fast start when I'm adjusting to target/race pace so that makes sense. But the dip at c45 seconds puzzles me. Does this happen to everyone? And is there a way to delay the crash to say 1 min or 1.5 mins ie 500m?
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Re: May ctc - 1‘, standing start

Post by paulgould »

MaxMacLaren1 wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:16 pm What Ron and Paul V describe happens to me as well. I can feel it on the erg and see it the C2 workout graph. After a few seconds I dip a little and after c45 second I start falling off a cliff. The first one is after a fast start when I'm adjusting to target/race pace so that makes sense. But the dip at c45 seconds puzzles me. Does this happen to everyone? And is there a way to delay the crash to say 1 min or 1.5 mins ie 500m?
I have noticed the same thing - many years ago when I set my PB I remember seeing 1:14's in the first 20 seconds, and at 45-50 secs I was in the 1:3x range and dying a horrible death - it is a very tough distance/time as it is not quite a flat-out pure sprint and there is a small-ish aerobic element to it too, but to my mind still easier than the 300m which is really tricky to get the aerobic/anaerobic mix right on.

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Re: May ctc - 1‘, standing start

Post by Iain »

I am no expert and am out of date, but my understanding of the science (excuse the "obvious" components):

First 7-11S uses up the Alactic CP/ATP reserve, then as the power is way above VO2max (approx. 2k pace) then you cannot clear the acid built up in the fast twitch anaerobic muscle fibres before they are needed again. I guess 45S is when the acid gets to levels that cause the bodies protective measures to click in despite all attempts to keep going and so less of the (strongest) fast twitch fibres are recruited so power drops. The only way to prevent this is to reduce the power employed from 10-45S and thereby the build up of acid. Not sure what the current thinking is on so called "lactate tolerance" training (this term has come in for much criticism over the years). Of course lactate is a good thing (very readily metabolised fuel), but its net production is associated with the acid build up (the oxygen debt). I think weights and other sprint training can increase the muscle fluid (sarcoplasm) which helps buffer and dilute the acid which should allow more to be tolerated. BUt other than that (which generally will lead to going faster at the start and so still hitting the wall at a similar time), no other ideas. The only other approach is to shorten the stroke (as it is the legs that give out) and pull more with back and arms to maintain the pace.

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Re: May ctc - 1‘, standing start

Post by MaxMacLaren1 »

Thanks Paul G and Iain. Interesting observations and it looks like I'll need to work on weight training and sprints.
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Re: May ctc - 1‘, standing start

Post by JonT »

MaxMacLaren1 wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:39 pm Thanks Paul G and Iain. Interesting observations and it looks like I'll need to work on weight training and sprints.
The alternative is pacing Max. I know that sounds obvious, but what Iain says below is correct and important for this type of event.

You get a very short burst of of a few seconds from the phosphocreatine (PC) system. By the way, this is sort of a free boost as a sprint start of any event - you can burn this away by sprinting at the start of a session with no real penalty to the overall outcome of the session, you are just burning through the stored ATP in your muscles. It just sits there to help you do a sudden intense burst of activity like jumping out of the way of a pouncing lion for example.

The key is then managing the production of energy of the glycolytic system. If you go flat out, this will last you around 45 seconds. As a side effect and as part of the self management process of your muscle energy system, the system raises the acid levels in your muscle cells until they eventually stop being able to use the energy the glycolytic system is producing. You are screwed at this point because your aerobic system will not have had time to kick in. Hence the 45 second wall that people keep hitting. But the glycolytic system is not "all or nothing". All of the above will only play out if you put in maximum effort. What you need to do is pace your effort so that the acid levels do not shut down energy production before the minute is up.

So, I recommend repeated efforts until you find the sweet spot where the glycolytic system manages to keep you going for the full 60 seconds. How many repetitions this will take is anyone's guess. Do let us know :lol: :twisted:
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Re: May ctc - 1‘, standing start

Post by MaxMacLaren1 »

JonT wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:06 pm So, I recommend repeated efforts until you find the sweet spot where the glycolytic system manages to keep you going for the full 60 seconds. How many repetitions this will take is anyone's guess. Do let us know :lol: :twisted:
Jon, That's a great explanation. It makes being eaten by said pouncing lion sound almost preferable!!!
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Re: May ctc - 1‘, standing start

Post by Dogma Dave »

Masochism. Pure and simple. Managed 301m. Best result for 11 years. That said, the only other one minute sprint I did was 11 years ago. I may pencil another one in for 2031. I may not... :oops:
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