100k Advice

A forum for discussing training programmes, indoor racing, things that work for you, coaching etc.

Moderator: The forum police - (nee naw)

Post Reply
nb99
Warming up
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:00 pm
I row on...: Model C with PM3

100k Advice

Post by nb99 »

Hi All

New to the forum. Found you in my research for a 100k row I'm considering doing in the next 12 months. I've read a lot of useful information on the 100k here, but have a couple of specific questions.

To give a little background I've done the marathon twice (3h08 and 2h57) in the last 5 years. I'm considering having a go at the 100k and I'm not sure where to start in terms of training. I followed the Concept2 marathon training program both times previously which went really well. Big increase in fitness in the 2 month period (I could only fit in 2 months not the full 3) and managed the row bang on target pace. But at the end I was exhausted and couldn't do anything for about a week. For the 100k I'm consider doing the full marathon training without the marathon row at the end, and then upping the distances and dropping the pace until I've got 10 weeks of 100+km per week. Does that make any sense? My main question is, if I did the marathon at roughly 2:06s and rate of 22 drifting out towards 24 by the end, what should I realistically be aiming for in terms of pace and rate in a 100k row? My main aim is to finish it but I also don't want to finish it feeling I could have gone a lot faster and having to do it again (as happend in my marathon!).

Any thoughts/advice appreciated.

NB
User avatar
Tgtaylor
Warming up
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:18 pm

Re: 100k Advice

Post by Tgtaylor »

Hi NB
I’m fairly new to rowing, only about 18 months but-
I did a 100k back in January, but mine was a suck it and see approach, I did read up on long distance cycling, as there wasn’t much on long distance rowing. The times and effort are about the same so I thought it was close enough.
I did my 100k in 7:44:07 and a couple of weeks before it I did a marathon in 3:03:22.2 and recently did a 50K 3:29:13. So I would expect you to be capable of similar time for the 100k as mine. The main thing is to finish it. It’s very easy to go too fast early on a pay the price later. Try keeping a steady pace throughout. My stroke rate started at 19 going up to 26-28 at the end. But I have been told that my stroke rate is on the slow side.

November, December and early January I did a long row every week (marathon distance minimum) I rested at least the next day and if I felt I had been pushing it, at least two days of rest. As I read that recovery from a training session is just as important that the training itself. If I done over 70K then the next week would be a shorter one. I also felt it was important not to do too much rowing with the risk of becoming fatigued, so I would only do something like a 1/2M and a 10k over the rest of the week, and only one of the three, at pace. During the longer rows I was able to judge how fast I could push it, and that’s what you will have to do.

You will be burning about 6,000 Kcal so you must find a suitable fuel to keep you going, that you can digest easily whilst rowing. After a bit of experimenting with orange juice and vegie juice ( which I can get away with on a marathon, but not on longer distances) I finally resorted to SIS sports energy drink. I used about 4 liters. It worked for me but would have preferred it if I could have found a more natural food.

Chafing will be a problem if you don’t prepare for it. Oh and the obvious, the butt need a good slapping every hour or so. I took a break every hour. I prefer to row without the seat pad but used it every other hour just for a change of seating.

I hope this helps, But I believe Plummy is the man for distance rowing (I mean Mega Meters).

I Wish you the best of luck with your 100k
Trev
Trev Age 60 184cm 84-89Kg Started Rowing Oct 2014
Image
nb99
Warming up
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:00 pm
I row on...: Model C with PM3

Re: 100k Advice

Post by nb99 »

Hi Trev

Thanks a lot for your very useful reply and a big congrats on completing your 100k! Your 100k pace is about 2m20s/500m and your marathon is about 2m10s/500m - do you know/remember how much of the difference is rowing slower and how much is factoring in breaks etc? What I mean is, do you remember roughly what pace you set off at in the 100k for example? I do take your point that I'll learn more about my pace as I do the longer training rows but I just want to get a feel for the pacing at this stage.

Very interesting you only drank and didn't eat any solids on your 100k. I usually munch on marshmallows on long stuff so that will be my plan A - again, I'll learn more about this as I go. One last question - when you were doing your long rows once a week did you do them at 100k pace or flat out?

Thanks again for taking the time to reply. It seems there's not much information out there on this which probably indicates how few people actually complete it!
User avatar
plummy
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Posts: 8368
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:17 am
I row on...: Model E with PM4
Location: Sale, Cheshire, UK

Re: 100k Advice

Post by plummy »

Hi NB, Trev is right in that I've done some ultra-endurance stuff and the beginning of it all was a 100km. It was in 2008 so I can't really remember what training I did for it. I seem to remember never doing anything less than 60 min rows during the week and doing longer rows at weekends (2 hours +). Before Christmas last year I was doing 4 x HM's a week (84km) and wouldn't say I felt in good shape for a 100km but that may be because a)one was never on the agenda b) I never rested more than a day before knowing another HM was coming along and c) I was pushing the pace on the HM's owing to time limitations.

From what I can see of your training so far you seem to have a good base to work on. I wouldn't worry too much about the pace in the first half as it was the second half that bit back hard for me (actually the last 27km was purgatory). You can judge at half way how you are feeling and very gently increase the pace as you get nearer the finish.

I drank plenty but didn't eat much (bananas, some chocolate and jelly babies I think).

I remember getting cocky at 50k and sprinting through the half way mark as a leg stretch - probably shouldn't have done that but who knows?

If your FM was 2:06 (faster than I could do one) I would suggest around 2:12 pace and see how it feels at half way.
Remember, the first 10k might feel easy but that's the easiest one, they only get harder from there.

Plummy
61 yrs old, 82kg, 5' 10"
43Mm metres rowed. Re-setting the bar much lower now. Getting too old and brittle for this malarky
Image
nb99
Warming up
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:00 pm
I row on...: Model C with PM3

Re: 100k Advice

Post by nb99 »

Hi Plummy

Thanks for taking the time to give your thoughts. I've read already on the forum about your 27km to go "experience" and have tremendous respect for you for finishing from there. Can't say I'm looking forward to that but it seems inevitable.

One further question for you at this stage - when you were training for the 100k do you remember if you rowed your 1hr and 2hr training rows flat out or at 100km pace or somewhere in between? I'm worried about getting the balance right of training hard but not wearing myself out.

Much appreciated.

NB
User avatar
plummy
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Posts: 8368
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:17 am
I row on...: Model E with PM4
Location: Sale, Cheshire, UK

Re: 100k Advice

Post by plummy »

Looking back at my 2008 logbook it seems that I mixed it up quite a bit. The last 2 hr row I did was at 2:09.1 pace which I would consider now as a half decent HM pace and I did a marathon two weeks before the event at 2:14 pace which I would consider as "conservative". I also did a 7741m 30 mins only 5 days before the 100km which I give my right arm for these days (albeit it was a CTC attempt for the team).

I've covered a lot more mileage since then and with 3 x 24 hours, 1 x 26 hours and 1 x million week I've learned a lot about how and where it can all go wrong.
61 yrs old, 82kg, 5' 10"
43Mm metres rowed. Re-setting the bar much lower now. Getting too old and brittle for this malarky
Image
nb99
Warming up
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:00 pm
I row on...: Model C with PM3

Re: 100k Advice

Post by nb99 »

Mixing the paces up makes sense. Thanks a lot. I won't be trying this for a few months yet but as/when I do it I'll let you know how I get on!
User avatar
Tgtaylor
Warming up
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:18 pm

Re: 100k Advice

Post by Tgtaylor »

nb99 wrote: do you remember roughly what pace you set off at in the 100k for example?
nb99 wrote:when you were doing your long rows once a week did you do them at 100k pace or flat out?
My objective was to do it in less than 2:24/500 pace giving 7:50:00
The trouble is when you set the PM for 100k it doesn’t allow you to have splits (unless I got it wrong).

I set of at 2:18/500 pace and with planed approx. 5 minutes of breaks, would put me down to 2:19.5/500, the actual finish was 2:19.2/500 (sped up a little towards the end otherwise fairly consistant). My first break was after two hours, then hourly after that, and tried to keep them under a minute (due to eating badly (flapjack the day before) had to have a 2-3 minute break midway, got someone to keep PM alive). I have done a 50k without breaks (accidently) after which it was impossible for me to sit down (without looking like a 95 year old) for over a day, and didn’t fully recover until at least a week later. Whereas after the 100k I could row again easily after 3 days. So basically the more and longer the breaks the less it will hurt during and after.
The training rows I would do at a slower pace for the distance the first time it ( about 2:25 to start) just to get the confidence I could make the distance. Then would try 2:20/500 and 2:15/500 if I felt it possible. If I done a slower one then I would do a fast 1/2M or 10K in that week.
For me the first 50k was easy. 50-60K for some reason I often felt was hard. 60-80K ok but the last 20k is where I found I had to dig deep, found it very hard to lift the pace.
For efficiency keeping the same pace is best, but I often wonder if I could have gone faster but rowing at a higher pace at the start and allowing the pace to slip as I progressed through the row.

The other way to gauge how well you doing, is of course use a heart rate monitor. You should be able to see how hard you are working and soon get an idea what you heart rate should be at each stage of the row. For anything over 1/2M I use a MIO on the wrist rather than an irritating chest belt. It’s not so good to start but when it kicks in is usually fairly reliable (it does wander off every now and then).
Trev Age 60 184cm 84-89Kg Started Rowing Oct 2014
Image
nb99
Warming up
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:00 pm
I row on...: Model C with PM3

Re: 100k Advice

Post by nb99 »

Thanks Trev - that's tremendously helpful. Much appreciated.
User avatar
CamiCrew
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2017
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2017
Posts: 1138
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:59 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: California, USA

Re: 100k Advice

Post by CamiCrew »

Thanks for posting your questions! and welcome, NB.

I really enjoy reading about these distance rows. It's great when Trevor decides "ah what the heck, I'll go ahead and do a 50k PB today." =D> I think it's amazing.

It sounds like you've put in a lot of thought and are gearing up to do the 100k right.

Please do keep us posted on your prep and lessons learned along the way.

Cheers.
-barbara

F Hwt 53 yrs 5'10"
User avatar
GrantR
Stop posting and start rowing!
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:47 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM4
Location: Sturbridge, MA, USA

Re: 100k Advice

Post by GrantR »

This is as close as you'll ever see me to doing 100k:

kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

(I took a line-feed break at 50k)

But like Barbara said, it's fascinating to read the details of how you guys do it :)
Image
User avatar
Draggon
Best Friend (PayPal Subscriber)
Best Friend (PayPal Subscriber)
Posts: 696
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:27 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM3
Location: Indiana, USA

Re: 100k Advice

Post by Draggon »

GrantR wrote:This is as close as you'll ever see me to doing 100k:
Nice... =D>

And I'm right there with ya! I did 75'ish miles on my mountain bike each of the last two Falls during our local mountain bike festival. Each one took me literally all day from sunup to sundown. Including rests, roughly 10 to 11 hours, and generally had a pretty good time. But I couldn't imagine sitting on an erg for 8 hours in one day - even with breaks.
Image
User avatar
zootMutant
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2016
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2016
Posts: 1638
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:58 am
I row on...: Model D with PM4
Location: Ventura, CA - USA
Contact:

Re: 100k Advice

Post by zootMutant »

Hi all,

Fascinating discussion. Draggon's remarks about bicycling reminded me of a question I've had for a long time. During my late teens and early 20s I rode some very long bicycle rides (all with a leather saddle): 160 miles in 12 hrs; 190 miles in 11.5 hrs; 300 miles in 24 hrs. And I never, ever had as much bum pain as the one time I sat on the erg for 2 hours straight. :shock:

Why is that?

Is it because the bicycle seat has different contact points? Or is it because I got off the seat at every stop light and every time I rode up a hill? If the later, then wouldn't a good strategy for a long row be to stand up every 1/2 hour and massage your bum for 30 seconds? Wouldn't taking the time hit be worth it? Or do you think it would have no effect? :-k

Do you know anyone who has tried that strategy?

Cheers,
Image
User avatar
Tgtaylor
Warming up
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:18 pm

Re: 100k Advice

Post by Tgtaylor »

Hi zoot , I can remember seeing a documentary a long time ago, and it explained that when we are younger we produce more of a chemical that acts like a pain killer, and as we get older we produce less of this chemical, thus as we get older we feel pain more intensively. I bet if you tried the same ride today that the pain level would be more intense. But I believe you are also right in the fact that on a bike you can move about on the saddle and even lift yourself clear, and that helps a lot. Thus yes when I do a long row, I thump my butt, about every hour to aid circulation.

I got a new toy a couple of weeks ago ( a black beast that compels me to take a little exercise every now and then), and so as I have been on holiday for the last week I have been looking into fatigue and butt pain. I'm no medical expert but to me it seems obvious that the the butt pain is a natural self preservation mechanism, and basically it's telling you to move you butt! ....Into another position. Unfortunately on the Erg that's not easy.

Basically we are talking about pressure sore or more accurately pressure ulcers. These are caused by the lack of circulation to the skin and surrounding tissues, due to the pressure exerted to the region. The NHS recommends the wheel chair users change their positions every 15 to 30 minutes to avoid getting them. Also the time you can spend sitting in one position depends on how good ones circulation is. As we get older our circulation deteriorates, also things like type2 diabetes will reduce circulation. This problem can be serious even life threatening condition, although unlikely for most of us rowers. Even so I would suggest any one doing anything over the Marathon read up and understand the dangers about it.

So far as the Erg is concerned I would suggest for longer rows, things like ... Make sure that you are not sitting on any seams ( as these are obvious pressure points). Change what you are siting on regularly ( my favourite now is a small cushion filled with small pieces of cut foam that can be fluffed up ). Give the butt a good bashing every now and then, and Use creams that aid recovery from this type of irritations (Sudocream in the uk).
As I say, these are just my thoughts and conclusions from my experiences, hope they are a help, and does not put anyone off doing longer rows. For me I doubt if I will ever archive a sub 7 2k but that doesn't put me off trying, nor am I put off rowing the odd 100K.
Happy rowing.
Trev Age 60 184cm 84-89Kg Started Rowing Oct 2014
Image
User avatar
zootMutant
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2016
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2016
Posts: 1638
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:58 am
I row on...: Model D with PM4
Location: Ventura, CA - USA
Contact:

Re: 100k Advice

Post by zootMutant »

Those are very good points; all very sensible. :-k

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Trev!

Cheers,
Image
nb99
Warming up
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:00 pm
I row on...: Model C with PM3

Re: 100k Advice

Post by nb99 »

Glad I popped back to have a look or I might have missed the rest of this conversation!

GrantR - very good! However, a word of warning - you've already rowed a half which puts you into the category of having rowed a lot further than most people on the planet. When I used to row competitively at Uni, the though of anything over a 5k erg was frightening! Years later I decided to try the marathon, swearing at the end I'd never do it again and 2 years later I found myself on the erg doing it again (and spending at least 10k of it wondering why). Again I swore never to do it again and 2 years later I'm seriously considering a 100k. It's a slippery slope.

In terms of the sore bum, perhaps I've been very lucky but it's never something I've struggled with, though have seen guys getting off ergs with blood seeping through their shorts from chafing. I think it's important to separate the 2 types of sore bum - chafing (make sure shorts are breathable material and use a skin lubricant if needed) and sore glutes (stretch them well beforehand and occasionally lean from one cheek to the other along the way to give them a break).

I promise I'll update as and when I do the 100k to give people some help with their plans, though I'm not sure when exactly I'm going to attempt it as I need to fit it in/around other training - definitely some time in the next 12 months but not sure when yet.
User avatar
Draggon
Best Friend (PayPal Subscriber)
Best Friend (PayPal Subscriber)
Posts: 696
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:27 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM3
Location: Indiana, USA

Re: 100k Advice

Post by Draggon »

Most of my longer distance stuff is bike related, but yes, getting off the seat occasionally is essential to maintain comfort over long distances. With road riding, I have to set mental reminders to stand up every 20 minutes or so for 60 seconds as there's usually not a good driving reason to stand up otherwise. In mountain biking, you will stand up often or you will fail. :lol: Also, mountain biking takes a lot more out of you, so you will be prone to stop and rest more often.

For the erg, I've found that the same padded lycra bike shorts I wear on the bike help maintain comfort on the erg seat even though the seats fit the bum differently. It's all about the ischial tuberosities - i.e. the sit bones - where most of the pressure is focused.
Image
User avatar
CamiCrew
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2017
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2017
Posts: 1138
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:59 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: California, USA

Re: 100k Advice

Post by CamiCrew »

nb99 wrote:GrantR - very good! However, a word of warning ...
This is a great paragraph, so much truth to it. (And yes Grant I laughed out loud at your 100 ks)

NB do keep checking in... actually I haven't used it myself, but there's a little check box in the options below a post window to be notified when this thread gets replies, I assume it would ping you by email. Good to hear from you and the discussion brings out really interesting conversation from the group!

Best of luck with the additional training.
-barbara

F Hwt 53 yrs 5'10"
HamT
Warming up
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:57 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5

Re: 100k Advice

Post by HamT »

Hi all,

New here and found you from digging up this on doing 100k session from 2014.

Anyone have any additional pointers as am tempted to try it in a couple weeks subject to lining up a couple of films to watch!

On the adviced 'rest' (which I note was a total of 5 mins over the whole piece so I don't think counts), do people get off the machine? Or is that not pure?

Only done a marathon before and found that ok.

Seperately I would love to understand more about (I believe plummy) who did a million meters in a week...I would like to give this a try at some point and would like to understand planning, training etc etc.

Many thanks

Hamish
nb99
Warming up
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:00 pm
I row on...: Model C with PM3

Re: 100k Advice

Post by nb99 »

Wow - I'd completely forgotten about this thread!! A quick update on what happened to me - I started to build up my distances in summer 2016 but then, somewhat out of the blue, an opportunity to row the Atlantic Ocean popped up, which had always been my ultimate goal. So my focus immediately switched to training for that which is a whole different animal. Some do things like 100k rows as part of their prep but I was worried it would take too much out of me in the run up to the row. So in March 2017 I rowed in a crew of 4 a little over 6000kms from Portugal to South America!

Hamish - a couple of additional pointers I'd add from various very long rows I've done since then - changing what you sit on is most helpful for your bum - I'd rotate maybe 3 different type of pads (but train on each before you do the 100k so you know they're ok for you) and then every hour stand up and swap pads before sitting back down again. The best way I've found to drink on a long erg is using a water bladder (camelback type thing) hanging near you - you can grab the mouth piece and suck on it for a few strokes so keep rowing while drinking. I'm not sure what I'd say for eating - I've found anything up to about 3hours, marshmallows are great, but there's only so much you can eat of them. For really long stuff I like eating ham sandwiches (strange I know but works for me!) but can't imagine erging with that inside me. So maybe something like a smoothie?

Best of luck with it - maybe update the group when you try it with your own tips and observations.

Can't believe this - I'm now considering doing a 100k erg again!!
User avatar
Iain
Super Dedicated and Truly Free Spirit
Posts: 2719
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:49 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM3
Location: Berkshire & London

Re: 100k Advice

Post by Iain »

Hi Hamish and welcome to the forum.

I have not rowed much for 18 months, but didn't go over 50k in the 15 months of rowing to then. 11 years ago I did do some long rows including a 24hr Tandem and 111,111m row. The latter was much harder, although I made it much worse by not practicing with the drink I used. What had been fine 18 months before had a bad impact on my guts and the last 50km required several rapid exits as well as the embarrassment of rowing with severe flatulence surrounded by dozens of well wishers! So my no.1 suggestion is you get this sorted.

Rowing to 60km is relatively easy, I found that beyond this was a whole different experience. I would certainly recommend doing the first 40km at a UT2 pace (NOT heart Rate, as this is likely to drift after an hour or so). I would say NB's pace dropped less than most, perhaps due to the cycling background.

I also struggle with soft hands. For anything over an HM I mummify my hands with tape. Minor blisters deteriorate rapidly on a long row, my hands were a mess after my first Marathon.

For training the key is distance. I would recommend at least one of 60km to give you the confidence of having done it and help you understand the impact of pace (people vary). WHile a Camelbak would be great, I have always managed drinking while rowing one handed (although this increases hand damage). Make sure you start early and set a routine (I tend to drink every 5km, but I tend to sweat more than most). Also a fan or C-Breeze will make a big difference by keeping you cool. Finally, I always lower DF 15-20, makes it easier you maintain a slower pace initially and pays dividends as muscles tire.

Best wishes

Iain
55 year old Lwt (in ability and in weight) trying to develop a technique that doesn't cause hysterics and continue to row regularly.
Image
User avatar
Ian Bee
Dedicated and True Free Spirit
Posts: 1520
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:27 am
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Wilts., UK

Re: 100k Advice

Post by Ian Bee »

Ah, if only I'd read this before my attempt a couple of months ago.

I'd failed 100k once before at 78k through being unable to eat/drink enough (and slamming unceremoniously into the wall), while my "successful" run derailed through hand damage at 70k, which really hampered pace (in in reality required many more breaks than would have been efficient).

Lead up to the 100k was not substantively different to normal training day to day (average 16k a day), though this included a week of HMs and a 50k in the month before.

As to what I think is good advice: Cycling shorts and lots of seat pads.
User avatar
duffyoz
Rower and forum addict...
Posts: 251
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:31 pm
I row on...: Model E with PM5
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: 100k Advice

Post by duffyoz »

Good Luck NB, no matter when you do it. I haven't done a 100k as an individual but I did do a tandem 100k changing every 2 to 3 k, that 7h 35m went by quite fast really (50+ women so a different grouping from others here).

I have done the crazy bear challenge, the first few HM's felt tough but I completed all of them quite happily in the end with a PB on the last, 30 HM in 45 days (or some large number like that). My 'normal ' time then was about 1h40. Just a folded towel with bubble wrap folded in it and remembering to glide back worked well to prevent any overly sore parts.

A friend (60+ womens) completed the 100k recently as 10 x 10k with a 1 to 2 min break after each 10k to walk around the erg, water and grab a bit of food. Trained on 1 x 50k a week with other longer or at pace rows each week.

Have fun
Image
Post Reply