Weight & Age Adjusted Rowing Challenges
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- AlanS
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Re: Weight Adjusted Rowing Challenges
I didn't realise there was, Mike! I assume you mean the one you can download from http://concept2.co.uk/rns/adjustment? I'll see if I can get that working and see what it comes up with.
- AlanS
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Re: Weight Adjusted Rowing Challenges
OK, I've applied the C2 age adjustment to the current mile challenge times. I've also re-attached the times resulting from my age adjustment, for comparison.
My age adjustment:
Concept 2 age adustment:
My age adjustment:
Concept 2 age adustment:
- Shang-Chi
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Re: Weight Adjusted Rowing Challenges
Well not much difference, but C2 gives half of us a little better time than yours, and there's some moving back and forth on people, two and two
Have you tried this without the weight adjusting
Have you tried this without the weight adjusting
- Pepe
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Re: Weight Adjusted Rowing Challenges
I rather like the influence of the age adjustment factor
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- strider77
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Re: Weight Adjusted Rowing Challenges
I definitey prefer Alan's calculations to C2's
Well done Philip =D>
Well done Philip =D>
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- Stan
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Re: Weight Adjusted Rowing Challenges
Is it too late to enter my time from Saturday.
5:54.3, (48 at the time), 100.8 kg
5:54.3, (48 at the time), 100.8 kg
pb times
- AlanS
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Re: Weight Adjusted Rowing Challenges
As it is getting towards the end of October, it will soon be time to announce what next month's challenge will be. There is clearly enough interest in these for there to definitely be one.
I am mindful that for some, it is hard to fit in monthly CTC and C2 Challenge Series attempts, and I don't want to make things worse by adding a third monthly challenge. This month WAARC coincided with the Grimbsy Mile and the C2 Challenge Series, which is working well in terms of participation.
My question is do you think we should just make these WAARC follow the C2 Challenge Series, so that next month's distance, for example, would be over 6344m?
I am mindful that for some, it is hard to fit in monthly CTC and C2 Challenge Series attempts, and I don't want to make things worse by adding a third monthly challenge. This month WAARC coincided with the Grimbsy Mile and the C2 Challenge Series, which is working well in terms of participation.
My question is do you think we should just make these WAARC follow the C2 Challenge Series, so that next month's distance, for example, would be over 6344m?
- plummy
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Re: Weight & Age Adjusted Rowing Challenges
It would make a change from sprints!!
60 yrs old, 82kg, 5' 10"
43Mm metres rowed. Re-setting the bar much lower now. Getting too old and brittle for this malarky
43Mm metres rowed. Re-setting the bar much lower now. Getting too old and brittle for this malarky
- billwright
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Re: Weight & Age Adjusted Rowing Challenges
What happened to the posts between Wednesday 17 Oct and today? Are they just missing from my access?
Bill
Bill
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Re: Weight & Age Adjusted Rowing Challenges
Just above this topic probably Bill. For some reason there are 2 threads on this subject
pb times
- AlanS
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Re: Weight & Age Adjusted Rowing Challenges
Check the other WAARC thread in this sub-forum, Bill - this is the general chat/rules discussion thread. There will be separate threads for each monthly challenge.
- billwright
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Re: Weight & Age Adjusted Rowing Challenges
Got it - thanks Alan.
Bill
Bill
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Re: Weight & Age Adjusted Rowing Challenges
To avoid having too many different challenges, sticking to the same distance/time as the challenge makes a lot of sense.
Looking at the c2 age adjustment, I reckon it was done the same (unerlying) way as yours Alan, but using earlier and/or more complete data to generate the adjustment factor, and so with a slightly different cut. Personally, I think they give a bit too much advantage to the older ages, skewed a little by the relatively smaller number of competitors there (the same thing that causes the nonathlon to be dominated by older rowers), but that's the official adjustments, so it is hard to argue against them.
What this does make clear is that, in a sport where low age and being big are a massive advantage, just looking at raw numbers misses the point as to how great some of the older and lighter rower's performances are. Age banding is well handled in most competitions, but the lack of a middleweight category does continue to make the weight issue a bit of a farce (haven't checked the figures, but it seems like 10-11 kg is like 10 years difference, so for an 82 kg fat lwt like me, racing the big 100+ kg guys is a bit like being 20 years older and expected to compete on equal terms)
(in my humble opinion, they should have a mwt capped at 85kg, and a light hwt capped at 95kg, before the really big guys, and this would be a more reasonable demographic split as well as giving us incentive to keep our weights at least
vaguely under control. This might tempt more normal sized rowers into competition. But I doubt they'd ever bother because of the increased hassles of weighing in a larger number of the competitors. On a funny closing note, I've never managed to check in for any competition without them pointing me towards the scales and then being baffled as to why I've turned up to row against the heavyweights... )
Looking at the c2 age adjustment, I reckon it was done the same (unerlying) way as yours Alan, but using earlier and/or more complete data to generate the adjustment factor, and so with a slightly different cut. Personally, I think they give a bit too much advantage to the older ages, skewed a little by the relatively smaller number of competitors there (the same thing that causes the nonathlon to be dominated by older rowers), but that's the official adjustments, so it is hard to argue against them.
What this does make clear is that, in a sport where low age and being big are a massive advantage, just looking at raw numbers misses the point as to how great some of the older and lighter rower's performances are. Age banding is well handled in most competitions, but the lack of a middleweight category does continue to make the weight issue a bit of a farce (haven't checked the figures, but it seems like 10-11 kg is like 10 years difference, so for an 82 kg fat lwt like me, racing the big 100+ kg guys is a bit like being 20 years older and expected to compete on equal terms)
(in my humble opinion, they should have a mwt capped at 85kg, and a light hwt capped at 95kg, before the really big guys, and this would be a more reasonable demographic split as well as giving us incentive to keep our weights at least
vaguely under control. This might tempt more normal sized rowers into competition. But I doubt they'd ever bother because of the increased hassles of weighing in a larger number of the competitors. On a funny closing note, I've never managed to check in for any competition without them pointing me towards the scales and then being baffled as to why I've turned up to row against the heavyweights... )
5'11", 50 - older, slower, greyer, fatter (and needs to update the sig times too)
- AlanS
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Re: Weight & Age Adjusted Rowing Challenges
I was wondering about making some changes to WAARC for the 2013/14 season (which starts in May). But I'd like to get an idea what those who take part (or would take part) think. So here are some questions to prompt discussion.
Are you happy with each month being a stand-alone challenge, usually set to be the same as the CTC or C2 Challenge Series for that month?
Would you prefer the challenges to be linked, to determine an overall season WAARC winner? Or is keeping things low-key the way to go?
Would you like several concurrent challenges over a range of distances and times, each lasting the entire season? That way, we wouldn't know who won each challenge until the the end of the season, but it would give you an entire season to make improvements and get your best possible WAARC time/distance.
Anyone got any other ideas?
Are you happy with each month being a stand-alone challenge, usually set to be the same as the CTC or C2 Challenge Series for that month?
Would you prefer the challenges to be linked, to determine an overall season WAARC winner? Or is keeping things low-key the way to go?
Would you like several concurrent challenges over a range of distances and times, each lasting the entire season? That way, we wouldn't know who won each challenge until the the end of the season, but it would give you an entire season to make improvements and get your best possible WAARC time/distance.
Anyone got any other ideas?
- AlanS
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Re: Weight & Age Adjusted Rowing Challenges
Bumping this thread to see if there is any response to my previous post...
- billwright
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Re: Weight & Age Adjusted Rowing Challenges
Sounds good to me Alan and thanks so far for the work that you've done. Just a bit of fun!AlanS wrote:Would you prefer the challenges to be linked, to determine an overall season WAARC winner? Or is keeping things low-key the way to go?
Bill
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Re: Weight & Age Adjusted Rowing Challenges
Hi Alan
I think it works fine the way it is. The nonathlon is there for those who want a season long competition with opportunities to improve throughout the season.
Having said this, an overall leaderboard would encourage participation, but I would prefer each month to be a separate challenge relating only to times done during that month..
Paul V
I think it works fine the way it is. The nonathlon is there for those who want a season long competition with opportunities to improve throughout the season.
Having said this, an overall leaderboard would encourage participation, but I would prefer each month to be a separate challenge relating only to times done during that month..
Paul V
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- plummy
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Re: Weight & Age Adjusted Rowing Challenges
My choice would be a separate challenge per month but have a grand total at the end of the year for all the challenges to encourage regular participation . That said, I think there should be an option to miss at least one (max. two) events so anyone with heavy work commitments, injury or any extended reason to be away from the erg can still join in and partake if personal circumstances get in the way (or maybe a bonus 10 points for completing all 12 rounds etc)
Keep it going Alan - I like this event
Keep it going Alan - I like this event
60 yrs old, 82kg, 5' 10"
43Mm metres rowed. Re-setting the bar much lower now. Getting too old and brittle for this malarky
43Mm metres rowed. Re-setting the bar much lower now. Getting too old and brittle for this malarky
- webberg
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Re: Weight & Age Adjusted Rowing Challenges
Alan, catching up on this one and will start in August.
Do I need to give you some data?
Do I need to give you some data?
Uphill to the finish
ID 140904
ID 140904
- plummy
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Re: Weight & Age Adjusted Rowing Challenges
Hi Graham,
I've picked up the baton on the WAARC from Alan. I've been away for two weeks and I suspect many others will be too so I was thinking of letting August pass by with no WAARC and starting again in September - is that OK?
Plummy
I've picked up the baton on the WAARC from Alan. I've been away for two weeks and I suspect many others will be too so I was thinking of letting August pass by with no WAARC and starting again in September - is that OK?
Plummy
60 yrs old, 82kg, 5' 10"
43Mm metres rowed. Re-setting the bar much lower now. Getting too old and brittle for this malarky
43Mm metres rowed. Re-setting the bar much lower now. Getting too old and brittle for this malarky
- strider77
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Re: Weight & Age Adjusted Rowing Challenges
Sounds like a good idea to me Dave
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- plummy
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Re: Weight & Age Adjusted Rowing Challenges
It's a bit too late to change anything anyway now but I suppose we could start the selection process for September early - any suggestions? Maybe a mile (1609m) as there is the Shrewsbury race meet coming up?
60 yrs old, 82kg, 5' 10"
43Mm metres rowed. Re-setting the bar much lower now. Getting too old and brittle for this malarky
43Mm metres rowed. Re-setting the bar much lower now. Getting too old and brittle for this malarky
- strider77
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Re: Weight & Age Adjusted Rowing Challenges
Good suggestion Dave
As always happy to go with the majority
As always happy to go with the majority
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- Paul Victory
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Re: Weight & Age Adjusted Rowing Challenges
I agree. 1609m sounds like a fun challenge. Well not really, but I'm not up to doing anything long distance at present, so a shorter distance sounds tempting.
M 68 6'1" 124kg (May05), 92kg (Feb06), 122kg (Aug10), 95kg (Sep11), 117kg (Jun13), now 98kg