what training have free spirits been doing today?

[Iain]

Didn't feel up to the intended 4x2k today after poor night, so did what was supposed to be a UT2 session although lower UT1 in fact.

Time Distnc Rate Pace Hrmax % HRmin %
20:00 4,202 17 02:22.8 144 78.3% 94 51.1%
20:00 4,207 17 02:22.6 151 82.1% 141 76.6%
20:00 4,203 17 02:22.8 153 83.2% 146 79.3%
20:00 4,202 17 02:22.8 154 83.7% 148 80.4%
20:00 4,206 17 02:22.7 157 85.3% 152 82.6%
1:40 21018 16.8 2:22.7 157 85.3%

[spidermac]

Back from climbing holiday, eased myself back in gently, still got my sinus infection!!! Almost 6 weeks now.
Wup - 1k
Time dist spm HR split
06:00.0 1334 20 137 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 139 02:14.9
06:00.0 1335 20 143 02:14.8
06:00.0 1335 20 147 02:14.8
06:00.0 1335 20 149 02:14.8
30:00.0 6670 20 143 02:14.9
CD - 1k
OK wout, will take a while to get HR back down.

[Iain]

That’s less of an HR increase than I had after my walking holiday, hope sinuses clear up soon. Today was supposed to be the L2 4 x 2k, but H/D in 3rd. Did a 3rd more quickly (harnessing anger over H/D), but hardly started last. Switched to a "strength" session I can't fit into WP doing 12 x 30" r1' on DF 155 supposed to be at R30, but sweat on glasses and reflections of bright sun behind monitor made it hard to see PM. Last time 5 months ago at 1:45 average, so .8S/500m slower, not bad given previous intervals.

Time Distnc Rate Pace Hrmax % HRmin %
08:19.2 2,000 25 02:06.6 171 92.9% 116 63.0%
08:18.6 2,000 25 02:04.7 175 95.1% 121 65.8%
00:56.6 0,228 24 02:04.2 162 88.0% 121 65.8%
08:07.0 2,000 26 02:01.8 174 94.6% 116 63.0%
00:38.0 0,157 25 02:01.1 156 84.8% 118 64.1%
26:19.5 6385 25.3 2:03.7 175 95.1%

00:20.0 91 30 01:49.9 149 81.0% 112 60.9%
00:20.0 93 24 01:47.5 153 83.2% 116 63.0%
00:20.0 94 27 01:46.4 157 85.3% 122 66.3%
00:20.0 94 30 01:46.4 161 87.5% 122 66.3%
00:20.0 94 27 01:46.4 159 86.4% 120 65.2%
00:20.0 95 30 01:45.3 161 87.5% 123 66.8%
00:20.0 95 30 01:45.3 164 89.1% 123 66.8%
00:20.0 95 30 01:45.3 165 89.7% 124 67.4%
00:20.0 95 30 01:45.3 163 88.6% 130 70.7%
00:20.0 96 30 01:44.2 159 86.4% 124 67.4%
00:20.0 96 30 01:44.2 163 88.6% 123 66.8%
00:20.0 95 30 01:45.3 165 89.7% 126 68.5%
4:00 1134 29.5 1:45.8 165 89.7%

[spidermac]

Bad luck Iain - a similar lesson for me today. Tried an EM countdown wout - upping spm by 2 every round.
Wup - 2k
Time dist spm HR split
07:00.0 1582 20 145 02:12.7
06:00.0 1398 22 154 02:08.7
05:00.0 1194 24 159 02:05.6
04:00.0 976 26 163 02:02.9
01:47.0 351 27 159 02:32.4
23:47.0 5500 22 156 02:09.7
CD - 2k
Ego over reality - with just 2 rowing wouts in the last month far too greedy!! Not too unhappy legs just didn`t have it & HD in the 28spm round, still 23mins of reasonable work!! WIll try this again in a month & hopefully a better result.

[Iain]

As you say, still a good workout, although I feel your dissatisfaction from failing in your intent. THere was a comment a few weeks ago on C2 Forum that we remember a workout largely depending on how it finishes and so it is always better to engineer a strong positive finish rather than continue to failure!

This highlights an issue I have been dwelling on recently: When should a session be made shorter rather than just reducing the target pace. I have found that I try and implement established workouts and would normally adjust primarily by pace alone. But after time away / illness / periods of stress or low sleep, sometimes the achievable pace may not meet the objectives of that workout. So reduced number &/or length of reps may be a better solution than doing the workout slower. So perhaps you could do the EM workout starting at 6 min and omit the R32 interval so rather than 28' of work at an average R24 including 6' >R27, the workout would be 21' of work at R23.3 Avg with only 3' >R27. Still a good workout but much more achievable when HR will hit high levels early on!

[spidermac]

Hi Iain. I think it was a bit of mental weakness just not used to pushing hard on the erg. I usually use these failed sessions as a pace guide for the next time i.e. start a bit slower. I do prefer to finnish a wout than stop early or cut it short tho have done that on some longer sessions when HR has climbed much higher than normal.

[Iain]

Just thought that there are times when pace is not always the best lever. I get carried away and readily slip into more "normal" paces that set me up for failure. I am sure that if I had decided to do 4 x 1350 rather than 5 x 1500 on a day when just attempting an L2 was a victory, I could do at the 1500 pace and feel good at the end!

[spidermac]

Decided on EM`s latest asensei wout - power strokes! 5x6mins R1min. Upping the drag 1 no in middle 3 sets ( approx 15)
Wup - 1k
Time Dist spm HR split
06:00.0 1334 20 129 02:14.9 - DRF 116
Rest 1min
03:00.0 685 20 136 02:11.3 - DRF -131
03:00.0 711 22 145 02:06.5
Rest 1min
03:00.0 716 22 146 02:05.6 - DRF - 146
03:00.0 731 24 153 02:03.1
Rest 1min
02:00.0 482 22 148 02:04.4 - DRF - 161
02:00.0 491 24 154 02:02.1
02:00.0 502 27 158 01:59.5 - - missed spm target should be 26
Rest 1min
02:00.0 480 22 150 02:05.0 -DRF - 116
02:00.0 485 24 155 02:03.7
02:00.0 497 27 158 02:00.7 - missed spm target should be 26 AGAIN!
30:00.0 7111 22 148 02:06.5
CD - 2k
Felt quite good on this wout. HR didn`t get too hi but legs were definately working.

[Iain]

I can't imagine rowing several minutes at >150 drag at 22 SPM. I am definitely guilty of leading with my back and "hauling anchor" with my back would not be advisable! Do you find that your stroke changes noticeably? Impressive paces at what would have been an SB for me at R22 starting at 2:15! 21' at 2:03.7 average with only 2' rest is about the best I could hope for free rate on my chosen drag. Just shows how far ahead of me you are, keep up the good work!

[spidermac]

Hi Iain - parental advisory with these wouts for sure, however I do think they are very beneficial - Em is a big advocate of these sort of wouts ( says should do them once a week - I don`t! )video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVsWB9RyALs&t=16s. If anything it make you concentrate on good form ie NOT using your back as that is the road to injiury with these sessions ( been there done that ). However in his latest video EM talks about these sessions making you concentrate on the middle part of the stroke -a soft catch & driving thro the middle where max power comes from the legs. I found my stroke getting better thro the wout progressed as evidenced by incresed pace at same spms, tho didn`t quite manage in the last set at normal drag however this is normal in these sessions due to muscular fatigue. Probably the easiest of his power stroke wouts to start is 7x3minsR90s at various spms.video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ymtQSenb9Q&t=21s. He has posted some that are 8min intervals but I haven`t worked up the courage to try those yet!! Last thing is I would only do these after a rest day when totally fresh.

[Iain]

Thanks for this. Will ad to my viewing list! Re pace changes, I have noticed increased paces when drag is higher, but also more rapid fatigue, so difficult to evaluate over all. I increased DF running up to the ultra as Ian uses a higher DF so our compromise was higher than I would have chosen. My results were better than expected. Thinking about it, at DF 161 your stroke would take nearly 12% longer at the same pace as 115, so your muscles are working longer so would be expected to produce more work at the same rating! Also no surprise that muscles tire quicker.

[spidermac]

ANother EM wout. 3x15minR2min - each round done as a pyramid increasing spm.
Wup - 1k
Time dist spm HR split
05:00.0 1115 20 126 02:14.5
04:00.0 907 22 135 02:12.3
03:00.0 692 24 140 02:10.0
02:00.0 473 26 144 02:06.8
01:00.0 246 28 148 02:01.9
R 2min
05:00.0 1128 20 138 02:12.9
04:00.0 918 22 144 02:10.7
03:00.0 700 24 149 02:08.5
02:00.0 481 26 154 02:04.7
01:00.0 247 28 156 02:01.4
R 2min
05:00.0 1137 20 147 02:11.9
04:00.0 931 22 150 02:08.8
03:00.0 712 24 153 02:06.4
02:00.0 489 26 158 02:02.6
01:00.0 250 28 158 02:00.0
45:00.0 10427 22 146 02:09.4
CD - 1k
Thought about doing another round but legs still feeling yesterday!! Pleasewd to hit all spm targets & -ve split at each spm. HR not getting that hi as still feel my chest is a bit congested.

[Iain]

That's a good workout Spider, well done.

[spidermac]

Time to dip the toe in the water with some sprints!
Decided on 10x1min on 1min off but done as one of EM`s wouts where start at 26spm & up rating every 2nd round - a bit easier than going full out at max spm from the start. Last time I did this was in may.
Wup - 3k
Time dist spm HR split Prev
01:00.0 250 26 138 02:00.0 - (2.00.4/151)
01:00.0 254 26 143 01:58.1 - (1.59.0/155)
01:00.0 261 28 145 01:54.9 - (1.55.8/158)
01:00.0 264 28 147 01:53.6 - (1.54.9/160)
01:00.0 269 30 150 01:51.5 - (1.52.7/163)
01:00.0 270 30 153 01:51.1 - (1.52.3/164)
01:00.0 271 32 153 01:50.7 - (1.51.1/166)
01:00.0 273 32 153 01:49.8 - (1.50.7/167)
01:00.0 276 34 156 01:48.6 - (1.50.2/167)
01:00.0 278 34 156 01:47.9 - (1.51.5/166)
10:00.0 2668 30 149 01:52.6 -(1.53.8/161)
CD - 2k
Very happy with that, a 1.2sec improvement on the average & HR weirdly a LOT lower. Flu jab this afternoon & out with my brothers tommorow - may set back progress for a while.

[Iain]

Great session Spider, 18M longer than the last time I did this unrestricted! Improvement on all counts

[spidermac]

Well as I feared the covid/flu jab really floored me - had full on flu on thurs nite/friday nite & haredly slept. Did nothing fri or sat.
Did a supposed easy wout today:
Wup - 1k
Time dist spm Hr split
06:00.0 1333 20 138 02:15.0
06:00.0 1334 20 141 02:14.9
06:00.0 1333 20 145 02:15.0
06:00.0 1334 20 148 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 148 02:14.9
30:00.0 6665 20 144 02:15.0
CD - 5mins with finger edge!
That felt like very hard work- HR hi from the get go & struggled to hold 2.15.0 - still not recovered.
Experimented with a suggestion on the internet for finger strength endurance rowing with a 20mm edge instead of the handle. - certainly pumped the forearm flexors - will try to do some more in my cool downs.

[Iain]

Well done for getting back on and hope you recover quickly. I can see why you would want finger strength for climbing, but won't be trying that myself!

[spidermac]

Restarted my weighted hillwalks yesterday in the snow, legs feeling it this am so nothing too strenuous.
Wup - 1k
Time dist spm HR Split
06:00.0 1333 20 0 02:15.0
06:00.0 1333 20 124 02:15.0
06:00.0 1333 20 0 02:15.0
06:00.0 1333 20 139 02:15.0
06:00.0 1334 20 139 02:14.9
30:00.0 6665 20 134 02:15.0
CD - 6min + finger edge
Still feeloing a lot harder than it should!! HR monitor acting up AGAIN. See what tommorow brings.

[Iain]

Still, good HRs when shown! Hill walks in winter conditions are hard enough, so adding weight admirable. Do you mind sharing what you are doing and what you carry. Ie is the weight in lieu of a day's equipment or in addition?

[spidermac]

Hi Iain, Its from a Steve house book called training for the new alpinism. Aim is to develop muscular endurance in the legs. He reccomends 1-2 per week. Pick a hill steeper the better, preferrably rough ground & climb the hill with weight on your back. ( he uses water jugs so can be emptied going dhill & refilled.) Approx weight to aim for is 20-25% of bodyweight ( which I usually do when back in the groove). HR should remain relatively low - he talks about being able to nose breathe. Limiting factor should be the legs NOT the lungs, Don`t know how useful it is for rowing but certainly helps walkoing up hill with a rucsac! I have a some hills near me & usually do +600m ( occasionally 900). Iused to use water jugs but they kept leaking so now use weights means i carry them downhill too - which he says is OK if knees are up to it!!

[Iain]

Done hills with 10kg or so, but 18 would be tough, rather you than me!

I had intended to do a CTC attempt yesterday, but after a few jobs hadn't time before the dog walk. This lasted 4 hours and I was in no state to attempt CTC after that so put off until today. Did 30' warm up and 7' went better than expected and no idea why I stopped in middle of first 3'. Restarted but heart not in it so aborted early. Did one of my "strength" sessions as has become my usual change when failing to finish a session. This was supposed to be 30S @R24 r1', but extra stroke in first interval. Just couldn't hit the right rhythm pulling last stroke 1.5S early having been ahead from the start. Still 18M (1.2S/500m) more than 2 Aug when I last did this, although that was after a longer start at R22. Finally instead of usual C/D did a 40' Level 4 WP workout (see WP thread) so "back on track" re sessions.

Time Distnc Rate Pace Hrmax % HRmin %
07:00.0 1,732 27 02:01.2 172 93.5% 112 60.9% - Faster than 2:02/3 intended and HR lower than expected
01:32.3 0,388 28 01:59.0 170 92.4% 127 69.0% - Ambushed by H/D Daemons
00:46.6 0,190 26 02:02.7 150 81.5% 113 61.4% - Heart not in it!
9:19.0 2,309 27.0 2:01.0 172 93.5%

00:30.0 135 26 01:51.1 156 84.8% 119 64.7% - extra stroke
00:30.0 135 24 01:51.1 159 86.4% 124 67.4%
00:30.0 137 24 01:49.5 164 89.1% 127 69.0%
00:30.0 137 24 01:49.5 165 89.7% 129 70.1%
00:30.0 136 24 01:50.3 167 90.8% 127 69.0%
00:30.0 137 24 01:49.5 167 90.8% 129 70.1%
00:30.0 137 24 01:49.5 168 91.3% 130 70.7%
00:30.0 136 24 01:50.3 167 90.8% 132 71.7%
00:30.0 136 24 01:50.3 167 90.8% 131 71.2%
00:30.0 136 24 01:50.3 167 90.8% 131 71.2%
00:30.0 136 24 01:50.3 169 91.8% 129 70.1%
00:30.0 136 24 01:50.3 169 91.8% 128 69.6%
06:00 1634 24.2 1:50.2 169 91.8%

[JonT]

I need to do a 10k for Nonathlon (and holiday challenge). 30mins at 10k pace today to get a feel for things. 10k last year was 2:10 pace, so I went too fast today. Doubt I could have done another 3k at that pace. Looks like I need to be at r20-21 for the 10k. That feels slow to me. I just checked and it was r23-24 last year.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Iain]

That';s a good strong run Jon, while you say you couldn't have kept it up, you did the second half much faster than the first, so is it that you couldn't maintain the 2:08 pace or that you couldn't maintain the 2:09 pace you had previously settled to? For me 10k is a tricky distance where pacing is more crucial and difficult as it is too long to sale through threshold at the start, but I need a pace where I cannot maintain threshold so HR increase slows and hovers around threshold only passing through at 20-25', however I only know that it is too fast when I am already past as when I get it right I hover around threshold for 10' or so so merely approaching threshold is not necessarily a sign of going too quickly.

Good luck on the 10k even if it takes you above me on Nonathlon

[JonT]

That's a good strong run Jon, while you say you couldn't have kept it up, you did the second half much faster than the first, so is it that you couldn't maintain the 2:08 pace or that you couldn't maintain the 2:09 pace you had previously settled to? For me 10k is a tricky distance where pacing is more crucial and difficult as it is too long to sale through threshold at the start, but I need a pace where I cannot maintain threshold so HR increase slows and hovers around threshold only passing through at 20-25', however I only know that it is too fast when I am already past as when I get it right I hover around threshold for 10' or so so merely approaching threshold is not necessarily a sign of going too quickly.

Good luck on the 10k even if it takes you above me on Nonathlon

Agreed Iain. 10K is a tricky distance to pace, and as you say, if you realise too late then you are cooked. The pick up in pace is the odd thing that happens to me when I remove headphones. I was listening to a podcast and switched it off after 15 minutes. As always happens, my pace increased by almost a second at the same rating. I've never been able to understand this, most probably an improvement from being able to hear the stroke. Sadly, it doesn't come for free, and my HR also went up at that point.

I would hope the 2:09 for the 10K is achievable, especially without headphones!

[Mike Channin]

Better than expected CTC for me, given so much slacking lately. Details on that thread.