(Ongoing battle with the 60 min) (was So what happens if you have 2 weeks off, and then do a hard session in a heatwave?

[Mike Channin]

Will post up how that one played out later.
Feel free to predict/comment

[strider77]

....It hurt !......

[JonT]

You are ready for a beer afterwards.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mike Channin]

Both of the above!!!!

[Iain]

I find HR goes up rapidly after a break, but can sustain higher HR (so presumably stroke volume is lower). Look forward to the results.

[Mike Channin]

OK, here's (at least some of) the details.
I set for 1 hour with 2 min intervals, and my notional target was 2:00 although I didn't set a pace-boat.
Given the heat and lack of training, I was expecting to have to get so far before backing off, and was expecting this well before the end. The notional point was 10k.
What was more interesting was how the HR responded and what the failure felt like.
Had a bit of a frustrating start as the HRM was a bit patchy at the start.
(Also had another Battery Low warning from the PM, even though I'm sure it's not - all since the last firmware update)
Anyway, once underway, it was obvious that my HR response was quite a bit higher than last equivalent session.
This would be expected from either the heat/humidity and/or the 2 week gap, so not too surprised.
Was rowing largely on feel, and counting strokes, and only peeking at the pace and HR occasionally.
I could see that the HR was heading for the 175 point well before half way, and I think it hit first at around 28mins.
Now a very rough (but surprisingly accurate considering) guide I use is that I have 12mins left at this kind of HR. This would put me at 10k/40mins so now I was hanging on.
Did manage to hold on to 40mins, although the pace had dropped off a bit (violating my usual rule of hold the pace, but then this wasn't about accurate pacing, but tolerating high HR in high temp).
Decided to keep going a bit longer as although it was very uncomfortable, it was also not forcing me to stop (yet).
Managed to push through another 4 mins, although the pace was a bit wobbly. I did have a point around 41:30 where I started wondering if I was going to throw up, but the feeling passed so it was probably nothing too serious. I could possibly have even gone a bit further, but I felt I'd done enough, tolerating 16mins since hitting the 175 threshold, even if I had reduced pace a bit. HR only peaked at about 178, so I theoretically had more range there,
I had a period of static rest ~90s and then went into recovery pace (2:30) and watching to see how the HR and calories logged was showing how tired I was.

The HR was still pretty high - 154ish, and only down to 150 by 10 mins rowing, and the calories was one of the highest readings I'd seen for this pace, indicating that I was indeed, pretty tired.
So, hard to tell whether the extra time at high HR was down to heat, being unfit, being more focussed on keeping going and letting the pace slide, because I let the pace slide, or even something mystical to do with stroke volumes...
But I certainly managed to push myself, even though the session was rubbish in overall pace terms...

So, it is interesting what you said, Iain, as this DOES match what I experienced - higher HR Response, and did manage to sustain longer (although possible other reasons)

[Mike Channin]

Splits
2:00.0 501 1:59.7 204 1001 24 129
4:00.0 501 1:59.7 204 1001 24 149
6:00.0 500 2:00.0 203 997 24 153
8:00.0 501 1:59.7 204 1001 25 158
10:00.0 500 2:00.0 203 997 24 159
12:00.0 500 2:00.0 203 997 26 161
14:00.0 501 1:59.7 204 1001 26 165
16:00.0 497 2:00.7 199 984 25 163
18:00.0 499 2:00.2 201 992 26 166
20:00.0 499 2:00.2 201 992 25 167
22:00.0 498 2:00.4 200 988 27 168
24:00.0 500 2:00.0 203 997 26 170
26:00.0 496 2:00.9 198 980 27 171
28:00.0 496 2:00.9 198 980 26 173
30:00.0 494 2:01.4 195 972 26 173
32:00.0 495 2:01.2 197 976 27 174
34:00.0 494 2:01.4 195 972 27 175
36:00.0 491 2:02.1 192 960 27 176
38:00.0 491 2:02.1 192 960 27 175
40:00.0 491 2:02.1 192 960 26 177
42:00.0 486 2:03.4 186 940 26 176
44:00.0 490 2:02.4 191 956 27 176
46:00.0 112 8:55.7 2 307 6 151
48:00.0 405 2:28.1 108 670 20 155
50:00.0 402 2:29.2 105 662 20 155
52:00.0 402 2:29.2 105 662 20 154
54:00.0 400 2:30.0 104 656 19 154
56:00.0 400 2:30.0 104 656 19 151
58:00.0 398 2:30.7 102 651 19 150
1:00:00.0 401 2:29.6 104 659 19 151

Max HR was 178 around the 44 min point.
Interestingly, the end-of-interval HR's above look more like I only managed 10 mins at 175 and above, so I may have ducked back out of the top-end again by dropping pace slightly.
C2 shows first hit of 175 at 32:20. Maybe the 175 I saw at 28 mins was a transient spike and not enough to get captured on the graphs. Anyway, definitely not 16mins at 174+, but maybe the 12min rule lives to fight another day...

[JonT]

That's all well and good, but did you have a beer?

[Mike Channin]

I didn't, but it felt like I'd had several beers afterwards - lightheaded, dehydrated, and vaguely nauseous...

[Mike Channin]

So, anyway: Oops, I did it again.
As you would expect, after another 2+ weeks without rowing I was less able to hang on, but actually looking at the splits, this might have been more mental than physical.

[Mike Channin]

1:00:00.0 14,531 2:03.8 184 933 25 168
2:00.0 500 2:00.0 203 997 24 145
4:00.0 500 2:00.0 203 997 25 154
6:00.0 500 2:00.0 203 997 25 158
8:00.0 499 2:00.2 201 992 25 160
10:00.0 500 2:00.0 203 997 25 163
12:00.0 501 1:59.7 204 1001 26 165
14:00.0 501 1:59.7 204 1001 26 167
16:00.0 500 2:00.0 203 997 26 168
18:00.0 500 2:00.0 203 997 25 168
20:00.0 498 2:00.4 200 988 26 169
22:00.0 498 2:00.4 200 988 27 171
24:00.0 502 1:59.5 205 1005 27 173
26:00.0 497 2:00.7 199 984 27 173
28:00.0 497 2:00.7 199 984 26 173
30:00.0 495 2:01.2 197 976 27 174
32:00.0 494 2:01.4 195 972 27 173
34:00.0 429 2:19.8 128 740 23 168
36:00.0 500 2:00.0 203 997 27 174
38:00.0 434 2:18.2 132 755 23 165
40:00.0 501 1:59.7 204 1001 27 174
42:00.0 432 2:18.8 131 749 22 166
44:00.0 500 2:00.0 203 997 27 173
46:00.0 432 2:18.8 131 749 22 166
48:00.0 501 1:59.7 204 1001 28 174
50:00.0 434 2:18.2 132 755 23 166
52:00.0 502 1:59.5 205 1005 28 175
54:00.0 430 2:19.5 129 743 23 166
56:00.0 504 1:59.0 207 1013 27 176
58:00.0 431 2:19.2 130 746 23 168
1:00:00.0 519 1:55.6 227 1079 30 177

Held Target Pace (2:00) up to 32 mins, then switched to 2mins 2:20, 2mins Target until the end.
I think I managed to sustain HR in the red zone for a long time .

[Mike Channin]

I topped 163 about 12 mins in, and stayed there for the remainder of the session. 167 is my 90% HR Max (Red) so I did just dip out of the red on most of the recovery parts.

[Mike Channin]

And again, feeling like I've had too many beers

[Iain]

I don't have the excuse of having stopped as only missed one scheduled session recently, but after Thursday falling off my seat, Sunday did 12 x 5' r1' to try and start hour preparation. Stopped 3 times but eventually made it. Fine at the time, but a few hours later legs like leg and my 30 min walk to work this morning was like slogging through treacle! On C2 Forum someone recently posted "Summer miles lead to Autumn smiles" apparently a well known running saying. Here's hoping!

[Mike Channin]

So, having discovered that the decline wasn't as bad as I'd feared at around 2:00 pace, I discovered today that the decline at high power/sprint is far worse, and I was truly terrible at that today! More training required there!
The good news is that it is relatively easy to do sprints, even if it is hot, as you don't tend to hit the over-heating problem caused by extended hard rowing, or the dehydration aspect of extended moderate pace. Or at least, that's what I'm telling myself....

[Mike Channin]

Round three of this today, with another 1 hour session.
You will be spared splits, because when the PM has been moaning about low battery, it turned out it was right. The backlight went all dim and flickering about 44 mins in, but the PM did keep running to the end. Once I stopped, it died about 3 seconds later, and before it saved the session. Grrr.
Anyway, it actually went better than last time. (It was a touch cooler, but still 20-25 degrees).
I made it to 40mins/10k on pace, and the HR was showing that I could theoretically have made it to 48mins or further.
HR was considerably better than last attempt, with not actually going into the red until around 33 mins in.
Switched to 2:20/2:00 intervals (2 min) from 40mins on, and did the last one at 1:55, and again, the HR was noticeably lower than previously.

So, I haven't been entirely lazy since the last one, with a couple a sprinty sessions last week, and more weights than I've done for a while (although not particularly rowing related).
If I get my finger out and do more than one long tough session every two weeks, who knows what could be possible?

[Mike Channin]

Looking at the previous HR traces, this one is significantly better than both, and maybe if I'd been really prepared to hurt myself, I might even have made the full hour.
Max HR was 174 at the 40 min point, and the intervals were all below the red line, except for a little kick on the last faster one.
The recovery part HR was also massively lower, showing that the load was nowhere near as high.
It was a bit cooler today, and that might have been part of the reason, but it still looks like some vague and unrelated training has actually helped more than I would have expected...

[Mike Channin]

Finally managed to complete the hour of power at (approx.) 2:00 pace on the 7th attempt.

Was a slightly strange experience, as I felt like I was near the edge and likely to have to bail from quite early on, but despite it being uncomfortable, it never actually progressed to the 'imminent breakdown' feeling, so I managed to get through.

I was rowing a lot on feel rather than PM-watching, and looking back, I definitely dropped off a bit in the 40-56 mins period, but then this got me through to the end, and I even picked up some of the meters again on the obligatory fast finish.

14960m / 1 Hour - would have been great to do it properly and be over 15k, but given the long chain of failed attempts, I'll take this.

[strider77]

Great effort Mike !

I don't look at the PM on serious attempts, just count strokes actually over-count so when I do eventually open my eyes with say 250m to go I'm pleasantly surprised it's actually only 100m then it's BANZAI !

Mind you it's sometime since I've done anything like that

[Mike Channin]

Generally, I'm a really close PM watcher, as I have a target execution in mind and try to stick to it. (I'm not quite at the obsessive level some manage, but I also stay very much on target and avoid much drifting.)
With these hot weather sessions, I've been doing more row-on-feel, and it is interesting to see how consistent I still am, even when only checking occasionally, and also how I naturally back off a bit when it gets tough and I'm going on feel.
I guess I will perform slightly better by watching more closely, because I won't drift, but there is always the risk of being less relaxed and maybe pushing too hard and failing.
Now that I have a solid line-in-the-sand, I will aim to (try to) repeat but with stricter execution against the plan, with the benefits of knowing I can (or should be able to) complete at the target pace, plus the theoretical improvement from having done it last time.

Watch this space...

[Iain]

Well done Mike. I find that my stroke deteriorates when tiring and rate drops, so watching the pace protects against this and gives me something else to think about (ie what am I doing wrong this time!) the problem is I also instinctively push more when responding to slowing and sometimes find myself hitting the pace at too slow a rating and tiring my muscles too fast!

[Mike Channin]

So, the ongoing battle with the 60min session continues...

Attempt 8 was on 11th Sept
That one was going fabulously, with a really low HR, but by 30mins I was having stomach issues, and had to bail at 40mins, which was a shame as it was shaping up to be an amazing session.

Attempt 9 was on 17th Sept
This one was a bit of a disaster, with HR way higher than the (amazing) attempt 8; so much so that I bailed at 30 mins, fearing that I was maybe carrying a background illness...
After checking back, my HR was actually a touch better than attempt 7 from Aug 20th, so I was probably OK and should have carried on...

Attempt 10 was on 24th Sept
Finally got all of the way through again. At the time, I felt like I was doing OK HR-wise so just carried on, but when I checked back I found the 30min HR (168) was as bad as Attempt 9 (167) and Attempt 7 (170, last completed hour). Having got to that level, it then stayed pretty flat until the end (172 at 58 mins), and I even pushed the end to be ahead of target 15,079 1:59.3

Attempt 11 was today
Plan today was to set HM distance, and then go out at 2:00 and see how that went, with the provisional plan of swapping to a more steady-state 2:07 at 10k, and ending up with another 60min level comparison point but also getting a faster HM in (having been working on steady state 2:07 sessions with reasonable success, but wanted to push on a bit).
Had a very good first 10, with HR well under control and only hitting 150 at 10mins. Had half an eye on being below 167-170 at 30mins and it was pretty obvious that unless the wheels fell off, this was looking very safe. 20mins was 157, and 30mins came up with ~163, so I had some leeway, and was definitely going to go for 40, with a stretch target now at 60.
40 went through with HR 165. Only downside was that I'd banked a bit of extra on the early stuff, leading the pace-boat by around 25m at 20mins, but this had faded back, and I was now back pretty much on level terms again, showing that the initial freshness had gone. Decided to hang on and tough it out, partially to see how the HR progressed, and now also to try to pick up the 60min 15k. Made it through, but was struggling more now (HR 168 by 60mins) and definitely not feeling fresh any more. Was aware that this HR was still only at the level where I had previously been at 30mins in earlier attempts, so theoretically I probably had enough HR range/cardio fitness to finish the HM. That said, the muscles and energy supply were definitely not agreeing. But now I had 60mins, I wanted to go a bit further so I could log this as progress. Initial target was 16k, then 17k, then 70mins. I was really tiring now, and dropping behind pace, and then having to dig in and up the pressure to pull back by the line. In the end, I decided 18k (72mins) was a reasonable final goal, as this was close enough to HM that I could get a good sense of how close I was, but still far enough away that I wouldn't feel bad for not hanging on. Backed off and cruised for a bit, and then started looking for a new target. I could see I was going to finish at around 1:26:30 (which was well in line (ahead of) with the other target of a 'faster HM'). Then I pushed a bit and could see 1:26:00. Pushed on a bit more, and realised that I could possibly chase down 1:25:24 (which would be a minute off T2:00 all the way pace), and that's what I went for. Managed a decent sprint at the end, and got 1:25:14.2, pulling 1:37.4 split on the last 97m. So, pleased with this as a pace tester, and it suggests that with a bit more conditioning, the 2:00 pace HM might be there...

Now, cycling back round to the original target; ONE significant factor that has changed is that it has got noticeably cooler again (temp in 16-19 degrees range, rather than 20+ upwards). Hard to tell how much is just my current form improving, and how much is purely down to environmental conditions, but the results of this ongoing battle suggest that I am quite significantly impacted by heat (maybe not too surprising, as the 'hour of power' does involve a lot of sweating and a higher intensity point, so heat-related issues might be more significant there).

[Mike Channin]

Some numbers:
1:25:14.2 21,097 02:01.2 197 976 25 162
03:59.7 1,000 01:59.8 203 999 24 138
03:59.0 2,000 01:59.5 205 1005 25 145
03:59.2 3,000 01:59.6 205 1004 25 153
03:58.3 4,000 01:59.1 207 1012 25 154
03:58.6 5,000 01:59.3 206 1009 26 157
03:59.0 6,000 01:59.5 205 1005 26 159
04:00.0 7,000 02:00.0 203 997 26 163
04:00.0 8,000 02:00.0 203 997 26 163
04:00.5 9,000 02:00.2 201 992 26 164
04:00.7 10,000 02:00.3 201 991 26 165
04:00.8 11,000 02:00.4 201 990 26 165
04:02.0 12,000 02:01.0 198 979 26 165
04:01.2 13,000 02:00.6 200 986 27 165
04:00.9 14,000 02:00.4 200 989 27 168
03:59.9 15,000 01:59.9 203 997 27 168
04:00.2 16,000 02:00.1 202 995 27 171
03:59.9 17,000 01:59.9 203 997 27 172
03:59.1 18,000 01:59.5 205 1004 27 171
04:36.5 19,000 02:18.2 132 755 23 159
04:14.2 20,000 02:07.1 170 886 25 163
04:05.6 21,000 02:02.8 189 950 27 170
00:18.9 21,097 01:37.4 379 1602 41 173

[Iain]

Well done Mike. Dehydration is a major cause of HR drift, so may explain the different HR results. Look forward to your sub 2 paced HM! Given you were slowing from 1/3 distance an amazing achievement.

[Mike Channin]

Slightly off topic, but had a good run on the HM @ 2:07 today: HR very stable today. Much better than attempt last week where I was up to 158 by the end.

1:29:20.2 21,097 2:07.0 171 887 22 137
4:14.0 1,000 2:07.0 171 888 21 128
4:14.3 2,000 2:07.1 170 885 21 130
4:13.7 3,000 2:06.8 171 890 22 132
4:14.0 4,000 2:07.0 171 888 21 133
4:14.1 5,000 2:07.0 171 887 21 136
4:14.4 6,000 2:07.2 170 885 22 135
4:14.1 7,000 2:07.0 171 887 22 135
4:14.0 8,000 2:07.0 171 888 22 138
4:14.0 9,000 2:07.0 171 888 22 138
4:14.3 10,000 2:07.1 170 885 22 139
4:14.1 11,000 2:07.0 171 887 22 140
4:14.0 12,000 2:07.0 171 888 22 139
4:13.9 13,000 2:06.9 171 888 22 139
4:13.9 14,000 2:06.9 171 888 23 139
4:14.1 15,000 2:07.0 171 887 23 141
4:14.3 16,000 2:07.1 170 885 23 141
4:14.4 17,000 2:07.2 170 885 23 141
4:13.8 18,000 2:06.9 171 889 24 141
4:14.1 19,000 2:07.0 171 887 24 141
4:14.1 20,000 2:07.0 171 887 24 143
4:14.0 21,000 2:07.0 171 888 24 143
0:24.7 21,097 2:07.3 170 883 22 143