what training have free spirits been doing today?

[Iain]

Spider well done for battling through. Still a faster session hitting serious ratings

Ian, training seems to have made a huge difference! WIll be interesting to see the effect at higher paces.

Really heavy legged through weekend, so 2 long LSDs. HR lowest I have seen for a long time but RPE much higher.

Today tried one of the EF sessions: 6'/9', but had to cut rest to 3' and the warm up. Unsure of pace so started based on 2:06 / 2:15, too conservative! See results below:

Time Distnc Rate Pace Hrmax % HRmin %
15:00 3,151 17 02:22.8 138 75.0% 091 49.5%
15:00 3,150 17 02:22.9 141 76.6% 132 71.7%
15:00 3,151 17 02:22.8 139 75.5% 089 48.4% - break before
15:00 3,151 17 02:22.8 140 76.1% 133 72.3%
15:00 3,151 17 02:22.8 141 76.6% 137 74.5%
15:00 3,151 17 02:22.8 141 76.6% 136 73.9%
15:00 3,151 17 02:22.8 144 78.3% 137 74.5%
15:00 3,151 17 02:22.8 145 78.8% 138 75.0%
2:00 25202 17.0 2:22.8 145 78.8%

15:00 3,151 17 02:22.8 137 74.5% 078 42.4%
15:00 3,150 17 02:22.9 142 77.2% 134 72.8%
15:00 3,151 17 02:22.8 143 77.7% 134 72.8%
15:00 3,151 17 02:22.8 143 77.7% 138 75.0%
15:00 3,151 17 02:22.8 138 75.0% 095 51.6%
15:00 3,151 17 02:22.8 140 76.1% 132 71.7%
15:00 3,151 17 02:22.8 142 77.2% 136 73.9%
15:00 3,151 17 02:22.8 140 76.1% 134 72.8%
15:00 3,101 16 02:27.6 140 76.1% 131 71.2%
2:15 28302 16.9 2:23.1 143 77.7%

06:00.0 1,431 25 02:05.8 150 81.5% -- N/A - Pause while started mid-interval, mainly 2:04s to bring average back
09:00.0 2,001 20 02:14.9 149 81.0% 142 77.2%
06:00.0 1,432 24 02:05.7 160 87.0% 109 59.2%
09:00.0 2,001 20 02:14.9 156 84.8% 148 80.4%
06:00.0 1,451 26 02:04.1 165 89.7% 119 64.7% - allowed pushed pace as well under HR cap
09:00.0 2,001 20 02:14.9 158 85.9% 152 82.6%
06:00.0 1,470 26 02:02.4 167 90.8% 113 61.4% - Pushed HR harder
09:00.0 2,051 21 02:11.6 161 87.5% 155 84.2% - Finished to come in a bit under cap - higher HR at start before it settled.
24:00.0 5783 25.3 2:04.5 167 90.8%
36:00.0 8054 20.3 2:14.1 161 87.5%

[spidermac]

The two ian/iains putting in the metres as per!
Arent - getting an OCD wout involves a bit of luck as often I see perfect OCD on the PM3 then when I downlaod it to a spreadsheet its different!!! Looks close enuff to me!!!

[Emander]

I decided to have an easy row just to test how the rib was feeling. It still gave me some discomfort, but depending on how it feels tomorrow I might mix in some rowing with the cycling I've done in the mean time.

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[ArenT]

Nice to see everyone is keeping up the quality training.

Alas, as is inevitable once in a while, my highly satisfying training sequence/progress unfortunately got interrupted by the dreaded factor that eventually always (but fortunately only rarely) strikes: illness. So no attempt at the SkiErg 1000m challenge.

Friday 9th

- Easy-ish random spin on the BikeErg using TP Virtual.

Too little sleep and super-long workday (I woke up early, couldn't get back to sleep, so just switched on the computer and coded away) meant that by evening I was pretty tired and felt a bit physically tired. With no real mental energy left, just decided to do a "spin the legs in an easy way however I like" for one hour.

Unfortunately I didn't realise at the time that the poor sleep and fatigue was in fact due to... Covid. Or at least, I'm fairly confident it is, as it gave me the exact/identical symptoms as last time, just a bit milder. It catches me out (I only realise later) as it springs a weird trap:

a) First night, feel a bit fever-ish, headachey, not good
b) Morning, wake up, feel fine. Almost 100% in fact, figure it is a one-night only thing (incorrectly)
c) Evening, comes back, but worse, catching you off-guard
d) Following day, ill, just generally no energy/achy/cold sweats, headache, massive lethargy, poor appetite (except for sugary/junk stuff)
e) Next day, pretty much recovered but tired

It's the only illness I've had with this exact weird "double hit" scenario that makes you think you're fine then comes back again. Otherwise it just feels like annoying low-grade flu. I've never ever had any of the other typical symptoms people have with it, e.g. coughing or sore throat or tight chest etc. Seems almost impossible to avoid it, usual circulation, devilishly efficient infectious capability.

Anyway, that was my weekend, more annoying than anything else, as it meant I spent all of Sunday doing nothing other than vegetating watching streaming series almost the entire afternoon/evening (no energy/concentration for anything else), and of course complete rest/no training (did go for walk in woods however).

Monday 12th

- 4770m easy on Rowerg

Pace about 2:15-2:20, never took HR above 140.

Very good/deep sleep (after two very bad nights) and proper appetite again meant felt nearly back to normal. Just tired, so today was a first "recovery workout" to ease back in. Will do a harder but no more than "moderate" steady-state workout tomorrow, then should resume harder efforts from Wednesday.

Why 4770m? Well, it is almost as if the universe had carefully aligned this for me, but that was the distance to 1 million for my season this year (that really started in ~August), so seemed feted as a perfect short/easy/gentle row back to health.

[zootMutant]

It's been a while.

My main activity these days is hiking. Last year I was hiking 2x/week, maybe 10 miles per day, with about 3300' of elevation gain. This year I've been slacking off quite a bit and decided I needed a goal... go to Colorado next fall and hike for 10 days.

I need to up my game.

Two months ago I started walking at work: 20 min before work, 20 min during work, 20 min after work... down and up a big hill. Comes to about 70 flights of stairs per day. The goal with walking (and hiking) is to always keep my heart rate under contol. My daily walks should never go over 125 bpm. (Hiking can drift up to 138 bpm, or higher, depending on the length and purpose of the hike.)

Last month I added in strength training.

This month I'm adding in rowing. Slowly building up legs, back, arms, shoulders while keeping heart rate low. Maybe 3x per week to start. Once I feel that I'm not going to injure myself (January?), I'll start uping the pace and adding in sprint intervals.

Today, a slow L4 (just because I LOVE the Wolverine Plan!)

30 min, using 2:08 as my reference pace
3x 10' @ 168 strokes = 2'/2'/2'/2'/2' ... 16/18/16/18/16 spm ... 2:40/2:35
expected avg pace = 2:37.9

time dist spm split +/- ------------------------------------------ 10:00 1913 16.8 2:36.8 +14m 10:00 1915 16.8 2:36.6 +16m 10:00 1918 16.8 2:36.4 +19m ------------------------------------------ 30:00 5746 16.8 2:36.6 +49m

Average HR 111, Max HR 123

Easy pace, but legs, back, and hands are sore. A long way to go, yet.

Cheers,
zoot

[Iain]

Eric, good to see you are feeling better, hope to see you back again soon.

Aren, sorry to hear about your covid, annoying, but in a week or so it sounds as if you will be back to normal.

Zoot, great to hear from you again. Can't remember your HRmax, so not sure on how hard that L4 was. I always found L4s tough (hence staying on a Pete'ish plan to avoid them). Hope this is one of many.

UT1 for me, I think that is the lowest HR I have done for this session:

Time Distnc Rate Pace Hrmax % HRmin %
15:00 3,331 19 02:15.1 146 79.3% 078 42.4%
15:00 3,331 19 02:15.1 152 82.6% 143 77.7%
15:00 3,331 19 02:15.1 153 83.2% 148 80.4%
15:00 3,331 19 02:15.1 154 83.7% 148 80.4%
15:00 3,331 19 02:15.1 153 83.2% 145 78.8%
1:15 16654 19.0 2:15.1 154 83.7%

[Ian Bee]

Iain – two very high value LSDs there. I’m certainly seeing benefit from that end of the training. The drop in temperature has meddle a little with my RPE vs HR (and for the latter I’m cautiously of the opinion that the readings are not quite as stable?). Interesting to digest your run from the 6/9 – as has been evident I’m very much of the school of thought to have a complete session as a line in the sand, and you have a good base to push from next time.
Emander – steady as she goes with the rib.
Aren – Well done on your million! – particularly after a bout of covid.
Zoot – nice to see you around, and a nice wide range of activities.
Today:

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As Iain mused steady state is one thing, fast pace is another. Felt very rested this morning so built myself up for a decent run on this session. First run through of this in August was actually pretty reasonable, though tailed off a tiny amount towards the end.
This time through it was reasonably consistent for both the marathon and 5k segments, with a slightly lower average HR (though the peak HR was a touch higher). Within the HR cap overall though - RPE was no worse than previous runs and, again, the marathon sections are sitting nicely as pre-recovery.

[spidermac]

ArenT wishing u a speedy recovery.
Zoot great to see u back.
Ian same as u I like to have a target as otherwise I am tempted to overestimate my fitness!
Iain nice UT1/OCD session.
After last 2 days something a bit longer & slower.
Wup - 1k
Time dist spm HR split
06:00.0 1333 20 137 02:15.0
06:00.0 1334 20 139 02:14.9
06:00.0 1333 20 141 02:15.0
06:00.0 1334 20 142 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 145 02:14.9
06:00.0 1336 20 148 02:14.7 - ehhh?
06:00.0 1334 20 147 02:14.9
06:00.0 1333 20 148 02:15.0
06:00.0 1334 20 149 02:14.9
06:00.0 1333 20 148 02:15.0
01:00:00 13333 20 144 02:15.0
CD - 1k
Not my usual consistency but i`ll take it as was contemplating a rest day.

[Iain]

Ian, clear improvement there with a faster pace at both paces and HR recovering more on the drop in pace. I am a little surprised that you are comparing back to August when you did this session on 7/11, but I guess the sessions around the 2 occasions may be different. I was thinking of repeating at slightly faster paces as I was significantly under the caps and was guessing at the correct paces. No intention to do the whole plan as I will not be able to row anything useful (for 60-72 mins anyway) at 75% HRmax. NOt a fan of the HM & 10k intervals either, so may stick to this one session or perhaps try one with more of the work at the faster pace.

I was surprised how hard the second interval felt. Not sure whether it was the tiredness of my legs after 3 successive sessions or rowing for longer (notwithstanding that much is at a modest pace even for me). I was seriously wondering whether I could complete all 4 3' into the second interval, but in he event the third was no worse and absent the cap, I could have pushed the last harder. Next on the agenda is 10 x 1'r1' to prepare for the CTC, but fully expect to return to this fairly soon.

Spider, well done on the Hr R20. OCD is a nice game, but the odd tenth makes little difference in the end!

[zootMutant]

Iain -- pretty darn consistent!

Ian -- what is RPE? perceived level of exertion? Are you on the EF marathon plan? Those 6'/9' intervals look familiar. HR very nice compared with Aug, especially those 9' marathon segments. Nice recovery. The last time I did these, there was no drop in HR.

Spider -- very consistent for you, too!

@Iain - I'm not sure what my max HR is, but it's probably around 165. (220-age=165; 208-0.7*resting HR=164; during a brutal (aerobic) training hike last week I hit 154). So, my L4s are solidly in the 'recovery' zone... slightly harder than taking a day off.

L4s for me have always been about technique. I estimate my 2k pace at around 2:08 (167 watts). According to the WP, my target for the 168s should be at around 2:36 (91 watts) or about 55% of my 2k power. As I work through the plan, the sessions will become harder and harder, but at this stage I'm just focused on the nitty gritty... building callouses on my hands, engaging my core at the catch, bending from the hips instead of rounding my back, making each rep the same.

The biggest problem I have is: when I'm tired (the last sprint interval or the end of a 2k) my form goes to shit and I end up compensating for tired legs by pulling harder with my arms and back. That's when I get injured. So the L4s are more like meditation (for me) -- just a focus on technique... with a change-up every few minutes. Time flies.

Cheers,

[Iain]

Thanks Zoot. To be fair I haven't done L4s for years and am much better at regulating my rating and pace now. I did find that the L4 tables gave brutal paces for the highest ratings 'though. I also found that I spent so long trying to achieve the right rate and pace together that I hadn't got time to concentrate on form. Also I like to get into a rhythm and no sooner had I settled to target and I was changing it again! But that is from someone who has an extended leanback that I have failed to correct. I found that once I establish a rhythm then form dictates SPI and so correcting pace or rate can be done by sharpening technique so it might work better for me now. As for HR mine does not appear to track the norm. Having pushed very hard at the end of many TTs of varying distances I have hit 184 a number of times and so it is close to or actually my HRMax. That said, EF's Marathon plan (which is what Ian is following and where I borrowed my 9/6 session) calls for FM pace at below 75% HRmax. I am getting closer to doing FM+8 at around this for 30' but FM pace quickly exceeds 80%. From excessive contemplation of HR traces I believe my AT is 162-165 (88-90% HRMax) and UT2 (Aerobic) threshold around 142, 77% of HRmax.

I think everyone's form goes AWOL at the end of all out pieces. I usually finish with barely 1/4 slide as my legs no longer respond, so pulling with back and arms is essential. For me atleast this doesn't cause injuries, what makes these more likely is dropping my hands so that I jerk the catch. So at the end I concentrate on upping the rating and throwing my hands forward and upward after the finish.

Today felt mainly recovered and can't row tomorrow so tempted to do my next interval session. But as yesterday was moderately hard and I have been feeling muscularly tired I toned this to an LSD. AGain struggled to settle at recent pace so settled at extra 10m/15' and 1SpM slower. Surprised at OCD on first attempt at these numbers, surprisingly comfortable although clearly tiring as initially had to conciously soften the stroke to hit target, while 45+ min in I was having to slow the stroke as seeing 17s and needed to concentrate on legs to get pace at the lower rating at target.

Time Distnc Rate Pace Hrmax % HRmin %
15:00 3,161 16 02:22.4 136 73.9% 087 47.3%
15:00 3,161 16 02:22.4 139 75.5% 133 72.3%
15:00 3,161 16 02:22.4 144 78.3% 136 73.9%
15:00 3,161 16 02:22.4 143 77.7% 138 75.0%
15:00 3,161 16 02:22.4 141 76.6% 137 74.5%
1:15 15804 16.0 2:22.4 144 78.3%

[Ian Bee]

Iain – I suppose I’m playing tricks on myself: the overall session rotation is 12 weeks (though in reality it is 4 weeks repeated as you’ve flagged), so I am indeed trying to compare with the same point on the cycle. In part my logic is to really smooth out the need to push the pace too fast, as for once that really isn’t the objective (rather I’d like to bed down the HM/FM pace which the plan is intended to improve). I completely agree that the session does appear to hit fairly early in the reps, but the repetition is really helping psychologically. Nice well regulated session.
Zoot – yes: that is the thrust. I recall comparing notes with a fell runner and they were very much of the opinion that perceived effort was much more important than HR/bands or otherwise. I’m on the fence to be honest, and would rather know that my HR is spiking/not recovering etc so I can do the sensible thing and stop, irrespective of whether I happen to “feel“ fine.
Today:

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On this point in the first cycle of sessions, I overcooked and HD’d (though did complete later in the programme). Hence, I too a measured view of targets and ultimately held back for the 10k middle rep (ended +2s) and fell into slightly slower pace on the final rep (+0.5s).
Within the HR cap for the session, but I would think had I pushed to meet the target for the 10k rep it would not have ended well. Food for thought.

[Iain]

As hinted at but not said explicitly above, I am cynical at blanket HR prescriptions. IIRC some people have Anaerobic threshold as high as 92% HRR against about 85% for me. Not sure how performing at that level compares in fatigue, but it suggests to me that different %ages may apply to different people. I take the caps to mean you can push to top of AT on 5k, upto but within AT on 10k etc. But unsure whether that was his intention. But for some it will be at a reduced intrinsic intensity while for others it will lead to overtraining!

[Mat]

It would appear that in respect of my training on the erg, the only thing in which i can remain consistent is my inconsistency!

Humbled by the duration and quality of sessions from Iain and Ian (even if Iain remains his own biggest critic) as you continue to prepare for your assault on that crazy record
Similarly Spider - great training even as you work around ongoing treatment
Aren seemingly manages to mix up training across multi-disciplines with far greater effectiveness that I'm managing right now
Glad to hear you're back on the rower Zoot and that the rib is improving Eric. If my experience of rowing after breaking a rib is anything to go by, there will be an element of rowing through discomfort if you're not to take an inordinately long time away from the erg

Back on the 3 x 12' r 2' for me this morning, and whilst the CBA demons continued to buzz around the head, I once again managed to get through all three intervals with a slight improvement in pace from the previous time (0.6/500 overall) and pretty consistent heart rate

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[Ian Bee]

That's a tough session to repeat (and see improvement from) Mat

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I recall treating this one as a low key session last time through, and hence the difference in pace is largely down to putting the required amount of effort in. This time through was manageable though not much room to push the pace.

[Iain]

Nicely done Mat

Ian, don't fancy doing that twice in 3 days, I don't think I have the mental discipline to moderate my pace and we crash horribly. Are the instructions the same for both, or does Eddie cut you some slack this time around?

[spidermac]

Strong stuff Mat & an improvement despite HD`s!
Ian great improvement - +181m
Last 3 days spent on the sofa with a bad cough/cold - decided to try some rowing today but no heroics.
Wup - 1k
Time dist spm HR split
06:00.0 1334 20 143 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 146 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 149 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 150 02:14.9
06:00.0 1333 20 151 02:15.0
30:00.0 6666 20 147 02:15.0
CD - 1k
HR a bit elevated but breathing was OK - see what the after effects are tommorow!

[spidermac]

Winter has arrived!! 3 degrees in the garage this am - might be time to move indoors.
Still not feeling great & RHR hi so just a repeat of yesterdays wout as hands too sore to do any climbing training.
wup - 1k
Time dist spm HR split
06:00.0 1334 20 142 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 146 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 147 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 150 02:14.9
06:00.0 1333 20 152 02:15.0
30:00.0 6664 20 147 02:15.0
CD - 1k
Happy to do something but frustrating that I seem to be standing still in my training.

[Iain]

Spider, call that a repeat? 3 of the HRs were different . Well done for getting these done while not 100%.

After Friday's minutes my whole body ached (not helped by broken night thanks to an over amorous dog), so LSD Saturday morning. Settled into a slightly faster pace so stayed with it. Sunday redid EF session above as promised despite still being quite tired with minor DOMS in calves (may have been using them more on Saturday's walk). Just on HR caps. Today still had the DOMS in calves, but other muscles aching too, but day off tomorrow so did an LSD, HRM spiked down a few times, so difficult to be sure of HRmins on this.

Time Distnc Rate Pace Hrmax % HRmin %
15:00 3,201 17 02:20.6 136 73.9% 080 43.5%
15:00 3,201 17 02:20.6 141 76.6% 132 71.7%
15:00 3,200 17 02:20.6 144 78.3% 136 73.9% - brief break
15:00 3,200 17 02:20.6 139 75.5% 098 53.3%
15:00 3,201 17 02:20.6 141 76.6% 135 73.4%
15:00 3,201 17 02:20.6 143 77.7% 136 73.9%
15:00 3,201 17 02:20.6 143 77.7% 136 73.9%
15:00 3,201 17 02:20.6 144 78.3% 138 75.0%
2:00 25601 17.0 2:20.6 144 78.3%

06:00.0 1,451 26 02:04.1 164 89.1% 102 55.4% - Not as bad as expected
09:00.0 2,021 20 02:13.6 159 86.4% 153 83.2% - HR in band once dropped
06:00.0 1,450 25 02:04.1 167 90.8% 112 60.9% - still hard, but no worse than last week
09:00.0 2,021 20 02:13.6 163 88.6% 151 82.1% - HR ticked up to 85.4% briefly after dropping
06:00.0 1,451 25 02:04.1 168 91.3% 117 63.6% - Hard but never in doubt
09:00.0 2,021 20 02:13.6 163 88.6% 154 83.7% - twice hit 85.4% so right on cap
06:00.0 1,458 26 02:03.5 170 92.4% 118 64.1% - just exceeded cap for spike
09:00.0 2,027 20 02:13.2 163 88.6% 154 83.7% - HR spiked back to 85.8% after slowing , averaged about cap!
24:00 5,810 25.5 2:03.9 170 92.4%
36:00 8,091 20.0 2:13.5 163 88.6%

15:00 3,201 17 02:20.6 139 75.5% 078 42.4% - too many R16s, lucky not averaged to it.
15:00 3,201 17 02:20.6 140 76.1% 133 72.3%
15:00 3,201 17 02:20.6 145 78.8% 134 72.8% - now more R18 than R16, pace getting more erratic 2:19-23!
15:00 3,200 17 02:20.6 145 78.8% 138 75.0% - missed OCD as bringing pace down at end.
15:00 3,200 17 02:20.6 143 77.7% 138 75.0% - glad no time to do more intervals!
1:15 16000 17.0 2:20.6 145 78.8%

[Ian Bee]

Training movement is a funny thing Spider - I'd say (if it isn't an in the moment blip), you will see benefits from the consistent training you're doing.

Iain - impressive distances again, particularly at that rate.

Creeping my Sunday distance up (24k now, holding pace to 2.08ish, 22spm).

Today:
[attachment=0]20241118_093501~2.jpg[/attachment]

Bit faster than last time for similar level effort which is reassuring. Not particularly steady though which I need to watch - and by that I mean there's a fair amount of noise in the graph. That may well be something I have to live with as holding 18spm at this pace is not difficult per session, but needs concentration .

[Ian Bee]

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Very chilly this morning so invested a little more time in my warm up than normal. Did it help? Possibly.

Last time through was a little adrift of target pace, so there was a easy win here in the end. Big plus is the improvement in recovery HR.

[Iain]

Your HR drops much faster than mine, and significantly quicker than yourself 3 months ago, when dropping from 5k to FM pace, clearly the plan is working. Interesting that you are more cautious on this session, completing 15M less than the 6'/9' from a week ago, although I understand that the extra minute of 5k pace is both daunting and a challenge. Surprised that you were at R26 last time, do you think that the longer FM row yesterday (and presumably on Sunday although not recorded here) had an effect? As you can see from my results above I am giving myself an easier run into these types of sessions and then hitting them harder (perhaps too hard as haven't had DOMS for some time!).

[Ian Bee]

Thanks Iain. Yes: it looks like I was overly cautious on this one relative to last week. The (marginally) greater part of the reduced distance was on the marathon reps so I will need to keep myself honest on those. As I move through the 12 week cycle (and repetitions thereof), I should have fewer of these oddities to rationalise (but probably more HD or missed targets to discuss).
I don't think that my Sunday row had much influence on this result as I let myself row at a natural SPM and didn't particularly push the pace - my interpretation of a decent UT2 session to relax rather than challenge.

[Mat]

Great training all

Spider - encouraging training given that you’re fighting a cold as well as the cold

Many metres again from Iain even when feeling the effects of such high mileage in previous days

And ongoing improvements from Ian with such control n the training as the metres continue to climb

3 x 6’ r2’ for me this morning which I followed with 3 x 1k on the Ski erg, as I continue to get the rhythm right.

When setting up the row, I realised how frequently I’ve gone off too fast and baled on the third so kept it controlled today

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[Ian Bee]

Amongst other things to be impressed over : incredibly fast HR recovery and well done on the pacing

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Very, very cold this morning (excuse no.1), so I'm not entirely surprised that my HR was a little patchy though within the cap (or more precisely at the limit).

The second rep is proving my nemesis - the pace *shouldn't* be that bad for 17min, but it takes on a persona of its own by one third through and it's a proper battle to keep going....