How to row faster for long periods

[Iain]

Not sure what your training regime is. Personally I think doing 5k TTs should be occassional events as these really take it out of you if done 100% (as you found out). I am currently doing SS at 5k+19S pace for long (90-150min sessions) and 5k+11S for shorter "UT1" sessions of typically 60min. But there is no one prescription as it depends on our base fitness level. How do you determine your SS pace? Alot of people aren't that enamoured with creatine, I have never tried it, but it can create bloating. I would have thought it is intended for more intense efforts (500 - 2k rather than 5k) as it is the basis of the alactatic system that only lasts for the first 10S or so. 5 x 1500 r4' and 6 x 1k r1' are both approx. 5k pace, so can be substituted rather than an all out 5k each time if that is your goal.

Personally I find water is only an issue for >HM or when starting dehydrated. yes the damp weather does make it more humid, but lower heat reduces the impact of this. Alternatively invest in a decent sized fan.

Best wishes

Iain

[JtheDad]

My end goal is to get my SS down to 2:00 pace and do that 100km/week. The 5k times are just a nice tracker to go along with it. I have been doing them more often instead of the 4x2k or other intervals because I feel I can get a similar effect in less time, so I have one short day a week at the Y to chat with friends & do some extra core. Most days I do 80 minutes (4-5 days a week when I can swing it) and if an interval workout takes 40min + warm-up & cool-down, that ends up about the same. I only get 2 hours of childcare and I stretch ~20min so that is pretty tight.

New research on creatine indicates it helps with muscle recovery for hard, short work and endurance work alike. Also a lot of new research indicates it’s good for brain function and recommends it for old folks. Some have even said basically everyone should be taking 5mg/day. I have had some stomach issues with it in the past but never too bad. It’s been 5+ years since I took it for my lifting days, we’ll see how my gut responds.

When I say I need to drink water, I don’t just mean while rowing but throughout my day. I’ve gone back to having an electrolyte drink every day as well, I think drinking tons of water throughout my day is gonna be key basically all year long.

[Iain]

Just had a quick look at some of the Meta-studies of creatine. Certainly looks good although there are a number of reported side effects. It seems that maintaining water balance may be key to reducing issues. I might even try it myself.

I do find it strange that you are targeting a SS pace. My personal experience is that I struggle to get my SS slow enough, but that is from a background of poor base fitness. Perhaps you struggle more with not being "sharp"?

[JtheDad]

Right on! I am certainly not afraid to drink tons of water, so I will just have to stay on top of it. Side topic - what’s your method for finding scientific studies on this sort of thing? I find the smartest people are the ones who excel at research.

I’ll agree that my goal is a strange one. I would also agree that my cardio fitness is pretty strong and my muscles can feel less than ‘sharp’ at times. I can’t believe that ever happened to me, I’ll share how I got here if you’re interested.

So I started lifting big & heavy around 18. By 24 I had what I called a gorilla bod. I was extremely strong but I had no cardiovascular fitness whatsoever. About that time my doctor and wife were both pushing me to do at least some amount of cardio but I really seriously despise running. Then one day I found an erg at the gym and gave it a go. I found it really satisfying and so began my rowing journey. Had my first kid at 25 and bought a cheap schwinn erg. I spend way too much time on Reddit, and r/Rowing was always talking about steady state (and the concept2, which I bought and talked the YMCA into as well). So low & slow was basically all I did for a few years. By the time I started adding in some interval work I suppose I was already in this position of CV fitness over stroke power. Through ‘23 I was focused on building volume with the goal in mind to do 100km/week. I could do it but not week after week. This y summer I turned 30 and I wanted to set a goal on the erg since I felt in the best shape of my life. I settled on the 2k since that’s ’the race’ for the sport and started adding more frequent and intense interval work. Honestly I kinda hated it. I hated 2k tests and I really didn’t enjoy the intervals. It was during that period I decided that I like steady state and I like doing it as fast as practical, so that’s what I’m gonna do. I don’t really care about 2k or 5k times, though they are nice, but I prefer to just sit down and go every day. Unfortunately if I want to improve my SS times, the training seems to be very similar to 2k training so I know I will have to go back to 2 interval days per week if I want to continue improving.

So basically that’s it. I enjoy that aspect of rowing the most so I’m gonna focus on it. Next summer my wife will finish her residency and her hours will cut in half, so I’ll finally be able to join a rowing club and get some experience on the water. I have been pondering the goal of 2.5 Mm in the first half of ‘25 but I’m afraid my life doesn’t allow that kind of consistency right now.

[Iain]

Thanks for the info "J". In contrast I did very little exercise as a child. I did some weights 16-18 but found that my deltoids grew and everything else was out of proportion so lost interest. At College 19-21 I rowed OTW and did some intense erging (and fell in love with Erg). But while much stronger and fairly sharp, I never rectified my lack of base fitness. I then became sedentary until I was 38! Since then have rowed on and off racing at a very low level 2007-11 (43). Despite 2010 24hr tandem row and 111km in 2011 all my training has been too fast. Really struggle to row slow and technique is never good and gets worse as I weaken my stroke. Between jobs for a year of covid and got back to my fittest, breaking my one PB since 2011 in 2021 (HM). I started to improve my base then, but it was still relatively lacking. Work & kids made limited rowing less than a year at a time. So now trying to build a decent base while maintaining technique and interest.

The 3 people outside the IRC Community who I know that row regularly both do the same distance each time (one 10k one 5k) and have for years. Works for them. Not SS, vary between UT1 and 90% TTs, certainly keeps them in shape. I am competitive by inclination and so am motivated by achievements and hence like PP approach for incremental improvement.

Re what make s you good at SS? Rather depends what you mean by "good". Some would measure average pace at given HR, others distance tey can row without undue discomfort. As it has always been a means to an end for me, it is what SS can I do without compromising my harder sessions (which are definitely my focus, whether focussed on TTs for Nonathlon or CTCs). THese days It is unusual for me to be able (willing?) to row on 2 days I go in to London for work. That leaves me with days when I am not fresh enough to do justice to a hard session, but not rowing for 2 days so don't need recovery either. So introduced UT1 sessions for these days.

Arguably most measures of SS are based on "base fitness". I think long term this is primarily about LSD rows. Having not seen any research to the contrary, I have previously thought that it was "volume" that mattered. But with recent (and some 2020) gains I do think that (at least for me) improvement in base may well be faster in terms of lowering HR for long slow rows when rowing at lower intensities. Not an issue when rowing 90min+ as the appropriate paces (now, when unfit these are almost too slow to do!) are the fastest I could manage without compromising faster sessions. But on shorter rows I am still capable of full recovery from UT1 rows provided sessions aren't completely all out & sleep/stress under control.

That said, I do think that ultimately SS pace is also dependent on threshold. I believe that threshold improvements do need harder work, whether hard distances or intervals. MAny say that high intensity required to lift VO2 max while proportion of VO2 max at threshold increased more effectively by longer intense (but aerobic) work. Twice I have come across people suggesting that there is a disaddvantage of going into "Level 5" on these longer rows, yet to see research on this.

As for research, I am not systamatic. As I have a science degree and worked as one for 18 months as well as evaluating papers in a previous role, I try and read recent research. But I don't spend the time to stay properly up to date so scattergun on googling, following links and references rather than anything more systematic.

[JtheDad]

I decided to do some intervals this week because I know you are right to suggest them. Did a 4x2k Tuesday average 1:57.5 & an 8x500 today average around 1:45. Honestly not bad, it made me feel confident to push and succeed, and the recovery after the 4x2k was significantly better than the 5k.

Your second to last paragraph about VO2 max was a little confusing to me, could you clarify? Are you saying I should mix in longer efforts at VO2 max, like a 10k? You also suggested in July that I attempt my goal pace of 2:00 to failure. Is that what you’re talking about? I always get confused about threshold vs VO2 max.

If my wife’s schedule allows, I will attempt 2hr+ on Sunday. Can’t row Monday or Tuesday so it’s a perfect time for it. Probably shoot for a 2:13-15 pace.

Also I wanted to thank you again for caring at all about my weird goal. Your experience is invaluable.

[Iain]

I am no guru, so please just consider my suggestions, but no promises! impressive to be 12.5S/500m quicker on 500s than 2ks, based on PP rests (4+ mins for 2ks and 3+ mins for 500s) 8S is more normal with 500s doable 2-3S/500m quicker than 2k pace while 2ks are a little slower than 5k pace.

The paragraph you refer to was about training "threshold". This is a nebulous term as it is the "anaerobic threshold", however we use the anaerobic system at lower effort levels and it is not as high as we can maintain short term, it is when there are substantial anaerobic byproducts in our system if we go above it and HR increase flattens off if we are at a constant pace a little above it before it continues its rise. VO2 max is the point where we utilise our maximum amount of oxygen and is deep into anaerobic territory.

What I was saying was that short intervals like 500s help to raise VO2 max, while the longer intervals help to move threshold closer to VO2 max. Threshold is the most significant determinant of pace over longer distances and ability to keep going. Little work is done at VO2 max itself and 10k is definitely not an option. Not sure what I was saying re goal pace, any session to failure takes a lot of recovery from and its main purpose is either laboratory measurement (eg HRmax) or psychological, I am guessing that I was sceptical of an imminent target. More reasonable woudl be to set a distance you can do at 2:00 and then after a couple of weeks try and go a little further to build to your target distances.

[JtheDad]

I’ve been fighting illness for the last 10 days or so, today I finally think it is over! I’m glad I was able to stick to the schedule, been doing a 4x2k 6m rest on Wednesdays & a 2:00 pacer 5m at a time on Mondays. Rest Tuesday& as much SS as my body can handle the rest of the week. Did 30m at 2:00 last time, hoping for 35m then 40m in the next couple weeks if I can stay healthy.

My knee has been hurting but not while I row. Since it’s stayed at the same level so long I’ve decided to see a PT to see if I can make it go away. It’s my IT band I’m pretty sure, I’ve been keeping it at bay with the foam roller.

SS pace was heading towards 2:10 before the illness, though I was getting a bit stiff so we’ll see what the coming weeks bring with my goal. Hopefully I can get to that 2:09.7 mark soon, that makes 18,500m over 80min.

Got a video of my technique today. Need more work at the catch for sure.
https://youtu.be/3wWdEc8pogk?si=uGMNrmRYHJCqix2m

[Iain]

Impressive to keep even the harder sessions going while you have been ill. Well done on your consistency. As the person ahead of me on Meterboard I have noticed the distance you have been putting in.

Re video, much better than me, but your leanback is more 12 to 10:30 rather than 1 to 11. So you should be able to pivot forward at the catch. Also you are jerking the catch a little, ideally you should accelerate throughout the stroke while most of yours is in the first 6 inches. This produces a high power output relative to the maximum speed, but is less efficient than accelerating slower for longer through the leg drive, but these are minor points.

Hope the physio sorts your knee, as my Physiology tutor used to say "the almighty had a bad day when he designed the knee", it is a bodge adaption for a joint designed to operate when we are on all fours.