October ctc - 2k / 2’r / 500m / 4’r / 1500m / 90’’r / 250m / 3´r / 1k

[Grobi]

Hi everyone,

team Fitness Matters have announced the ctc for October:

2000m
2‘r
500m
4‘r
1500m
90’’r
250m
3‘r
1000m

Interesting split of the rest times, pacing for this one will be particularly tricky imho. Anyway, have fun everyone

[Iain]

Designed to allow the shorter intervals to be done wih no holding back while making us go under recovered after the longer intervals?!

[Caratacus]

Got an attempt in early for a change, might even manage a few more goes 19:31.1 1:51.5

[Iain]

Felton, not giving much away! How did you pace it and how did it feel? Most importantly was the last 1k like the vomit inducing 750 on the rugby test? Well done for the early score.

[Caratacus]

Sorry Iain! I’ll try to expand a bit
Not done much rowing recently so didn’t give pacing too much thought other than to start off conservatively somewhere near the pace of last months CTC. Felt quite good so kept increasing the pace through the reps, just going a little harder on the short ones without overdoing it. I’ve probably got more in the tank which I may explore in future efforts

[Caratacus]

Also, I would have posted a screenshot but I’m not sure of the etiquette of that as I realised that it looks normal on Tapatalk, which I am using, but blows up to gigantic proportions on the forum. Am I just doing something wrong?

[Iain]

Not the one to answer tech questions, but enormous is fine by me! I was assuming that the short intervals can be done much faster due to the long rests after them. So thinking something like 2k+4, 2k-3, 2k+3, 500+2, 2k. About 2k+2 average (similar to last month's average).

[Caratacus]

Well you asked for it, so here it is! Apologies if this takes over your screen

[Liefcat]

Well done, Felton

Me was also being an early bird... Realizing that even though holding back quite a bit on the 2k, reality hit me on the 1500m segment...
.

[JonT]

I had convinced myself that I would do a semi-steady run through this to get a feel. What I had not considered was my lack of fitness and that the pacing I imagined would be comfortable turned out to be very uncomfortable. Based on my pace I think I got this about right. I managed to negative split on the short and long distances. The last 1K was a real pig, but manageable. I did complete rest in the short rest intervals and active resting for 1 min of the longer ones. I deliberately didn't go completely nuts on the shorter intervals, but did push reasonably hard (for me).

I may have another bash. Not sure.

[Iain]

Thanks for the target Jon! Not surprised the final 1k felt hard, it was 5S/500m faster than the 1.5k!

[fkoene]

Because of my coughing and sneezing and spreading Covid mildly around I didn't want to go to the gym today, rowed this challenge without overdoing it. Who knows, plenty of time to get a better result. Now finished in 21:20.2.

[JonT]

Thanks for the target Jon! Not surprised the final 1k felt hard, it was 5S/500m faster than the 1.5k!

……which probably means my pacing was out. This really is a tricky one. I’ll probably use it as a motivator to try to improve fitness over the month and have another attempt at the end of the month.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[fkoene]

Not yet sporting in the vicinity of others, used yesterday's row as target. Trying to do every interval faster, in which I succeeded. Maybe it works another time.
Ended in 21:09.6 now.

[Iain]

Great to see lots of attempts already!

[Tako]

Out of shape and far too little training lately, but wanted a score that wasn’t only easy padling.
Should have taken it easier but couldn’t control myself.
Frustrating to see how slow and out of shape I have become over last two years.

Erik this time I wasn’t even close

[ArenT]

Based on my pace I think I got this about right.

Assuming your heart rate limits/zones are input correctly, based on your heart rate percentages, I'd say you gave it very close to a 100% effort. From 92% to 96% is not leaving anything left, and is an amazing effort!

This challenge looks extremely tricky to pace, probably one that is definitely worth (if one is a glutton for punishment) two attempts, the first as a sighter/pacing, the second one when you know what in theory you can do without redlining/going too deep and then impacting later intervals negatively with a slower overall result.

[Mat]

Great to see so many attempts already this month, especially on such a devilishly tough challenge

[E-Clair]

This challenge looks extremely tricky to pace, probably one that is definitely worth (if one is a glutton for punishment) two attempts, the first as a sighter/pacing, the second one when you know what in theory you can do without redlining/going too deep and then impacting later intervals negatively with a slower overall result.

Be careful about getting too ambitious after an easy trial run. I did a trial run with the 2k at 2k+3.9 and went 2k+1.0 overall last month. Then the real deal started at 2k+2.3 and finished 2k-0.2 overall. Those 1.2 splits felt completely different. The recovery from the real run was like from a 2k time trial.

[Iain]

Thanks for the insight E_Clair. Ambushed by H/D demons when doubting the wisdom of going under pace. Late starting so no time to rehearse mentally before I set off. Added a fast 5' to demonstrate that I could have finished. Annoyed that I didn't even get a score on the board, but decent level 1 workout:

Time Distnc Rate Pace Hrmax % HRmin %
08:04.8 2,000 28 02:01.2 173 94.0% 109 59.2% - way under 2:02 target, low SPI higher rating than planned
01:53.6 0,500 34 01:53.6 174 94.6% 123 66.8% - even further under 1:55 target
02:17.0 0,568 29 02:00.6 169 91.8% 121 65.8% - H/D Demon ambush 100m after feeling fine, HR only just gone into red.
05:00.0 1,247 28 02:00.3 170 92.4% 106 57.6% - after 5' or so break.
17:15.4 4315 28.7 2:00.0 174 94.6%

[plummy]

I tried this last night which was probably ill-advised because I was completely shattered after my daughter's wedding at the weekend. The first 2k went ok and he 500 not terrible. Half way through the 1500 I just died...

One for after my impending holiday...maybe...

[ArenT]

Well this was, as expected, a painful one. Very interesting challenge though, a right mix.

In hindsight I would say I made one error, so my advice would be this: resist the urge to max out, or even nearly max out, the shorter intervals, but in particular the 500m piece after the 2k. Doing so only "gains" you at most a handful of seconds, but it is sufficiently long that the effort is certainly not purely/predominantly anaerobic, but sufficiently short that it is not really a VO2Max type effort either. Or in simpler terms, you end up paying for it through the rest of the intervals in a way you cannot properly recover from, compared to say, correctly pacing the longer pieces. To put it yet another way, it is by far the easiest to "get wrong", since it it short enough to get carried away, and even complete it feeling kind of good, in a painful-sort-of-way. Instead, the impact is felt about half-way through the 1500m, where you realise that despite the long-ish 4min rest, you've smoked too many of those high-power motor neuron units.

So if I was to do it again, I'd attack the 500m with less enthusiasm, and then have better splits on the later pieces. My 250m piece was rowed at a slower pace...

[Iain]

Nicely done Aren. Re your observation, I agree that your advice makes sense to ensure this is completed. But if your HRMax is set up correctly, you still had some CV capacity unused (although as you didn't get much higher on your 1k, perhaps this is a "default" setting - my HR App insists that I exceed 100% of my max every time as I have failed to reset this from 220 - Age!). Also, R28 is pretty low for a 500 and clearly so when you did the 2k at R27! I wonder whether the issue was that your muscles were smoked due to high work per stroke (ie max force) and that you could have managed a similar pace at say R32 with less impact on the later intervals. Doubly so for the 250 which can be done at high 30's rating with significant anaerobic element. THis will make 1k nasty, but that can be overcome knowing that it is the end. I expect to ramp up at the end of this finishing in the high 30's or low 40s with a mad thrash to the finish. That said, I failed in my attempt, so you may well be right and I still have to demonstarte the theory in practice!.

My logic for a faster 500 & 250 is to make the most of the rests. >100% rests should allow recovery from high oxygen debts so increasing CV load on these should be achievable. On the downside this will be tough. The rests from the preceding longer intervals are not generous so I expect to be starting when breathing has not fully recovered and so to push these harder than usual is a big ask and a gift to the H/D demons! Essentially all intervals are in the uncomfortable area. As it is only 1 2k, this is achievable above threshold. Not the agony of a full TT, but extremely unpleasant.

[ArenT]

Iain, I agree with your analysis, particularly as you've raised something I've been considering myself for a while (and particularly given my background from cycling). Namely, that, as you point out, that lower stroke rates (or the equivalent in cycling, lower cadences) which rely more on neuromuscular/CNS power are more likely to reach exhaustion versus higher stroke rates/cadences where you can shift more of the burden onto the CV system and therefore recruit more the slower twitch fibres which fatigue far more slowly.

The tricky thing is actually, *how* to "row fast", where by fast we mean smooth (much higher) stroke rates for any given equivalent power. Anything above about 28 feels incredibly "fast" to me, even though, I know intellectually and from having watched e.g. Olympic rowers, that actually they usually go up to 36-44 for 2K efforts and below. I think the ironic thing is that as I've worked hard to improve my technique and develop smooth power, that all of the concentration on working in the 18-22 range means that I need to now do some real work to get used to sacrificing a bit of drive length in order to deliver much faster strokes and do so without having hasty "grabby" catches which spoil the smoothness. It's easier said than done...

Obviously I realise that the training advice on how to row nicely at higher stroke rates (e.g. 30, 32, 36...) is "practice", I'd welcome anyone's particular tips/techniques/visualisations things to focus on that make accomplishing this smoothly more viable. It's actually quite difficult to catch, to the microsecond, the next stroke, whilst also focusing on driving with your legs, delaying opening the hips, rather than "pulling" with your back. "Pulling" makes it much easier to have non-jerky 30+ spms, but also means you're compromising your form and not maximising your sustainable power.

I've never actually had 1-to-1 rowing coaching, so perhaps I should hire a coach and send them some videos of my form when I'm under duress, e.g. during a 2k effort (since that is when your form failures become most visible), and see what optimisations I could make. For rowing, I suffer from the fact I'm quite short/not-tall (173cm), but I suppose in theory that should make higher stroke rates easier for me to accomplish, as I have less distance I need to "fold up" with my shorter limbs!

[Iain]

It is easier to rate higher on the water (you are not moving your whole body wait as the boat moves relative to erger and is lighter). Many of the top ergers "only" do R34-36 on static erg. No hurry to reach your 2k optimum, perhaps more rowing at R24-26 to grove the main stroke elements before lifting your rating. For most of a 2k they should be full strokes but not over extended or excessive leanback. If you row high ratings you will tire quicker and it can feel like you are suffocating as you struggle to get in enough oxygen, so technique usually deteriorates. Hence practicing on 500m reps.