what training have free spirits been doing today?

[spidermac]

Enjoy your break Mat.
Iain your longer rows are getting faster!!
Ian I admire your mental fortitude for these long wouts - not for me !!
Bit of a test today - thought will test the waters with an interval session - PP 5x1500 ended up HD in R2 HR sky hi again!!!
So what to do? thought my usual rescue session is 30minR20 so started that as seen from HR didn`t fell that great in first 2 rounds a hangover from the prior attempted intervals. However after that settled in and managed 60mins so not too bad a result. ( OCD as requested Ian!! ). The usual PM3 rounding anomaly.
Wup - 5k!!!
Time dist spm HR split
06:00.0 1334 20 156 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 157 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 155 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 152 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 154 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 152 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 154 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 152 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 151 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 150 02:14.9
01:00:00 13333 20 153 02:15.0
CD - 2k
I think the decreasing HR was a combination of trying to relax as much as poss on the recovery & concentrating a bit more on technique as wout progressed.

[Iain]

Mat, interesting idea of a session, almost an L4 WP. Surprised your HR kicked up on the modest increase in pace for last split, perhaps the humidity got to you as well!

[Iain]

Humid again this morning and muscles a little sore from yesterday, so did UT2(ish) long row this morning. Nearly OCD until the end.

Time Distnc Rate Split MaxHR % MinHR %
15:00 3,150 17 02:22.9 144 78.3% 079 42.9%
15:00 3,151 17 02:22.8 150 81.5% 140 76.1%
15:00 3,151 17 02:22.8 152 82.6% 146 79.3%
15:00 3,151 17 02:22.8 154 83.7% 147 79.9%
15:00 3,151 17 02:22.8 154 83.7% 147 79.9%
15:00 3,151 17 02:22.8 153 83.2% 146 79.3%
15:00 3,151 17 02:22.8 153 83.2% 147 79.9%
15:00 3,150 18 02:22.9 154 83.7% 148 80.4%
2:00 25200 17.1 2:22.9 154 83.7%

[Iain]

UT1 Hr this morning. Intended to add 5M/15 min/ week, but given humidity and high HR last time unsure, but as only an hour did in the end. Despite continuous rain lower humidity as measured by the sweat puddle, but maybe just a little cooler.

Time Distnc Rate Split MaxHR % MinHR %
15:00 3,306 20 02:16.1 150 81.5% 95 51.6%
15:00 3,305 19 02:16.2 158 85.9% 149 81.0%
15:00 3,306 19 02:16.1 160 87.0% 154 83.7%
15:00 3,306 19 02:16.1 161 87.5% 157 85.3%
1:00 13222 19.3 2:16.1 161 87.5%

[J-Dog]

Iain,
what are UT1 and UT2? Are they the same as HR zones?

Today I managed to do another 30' and got quite a bit further, without letting the HR go much over 145.

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M HR
30:00.0 5,511m 2:43.3 80 576 20 139
6:00.0 1,110m 2:42.1 82 582 20 127
12:00.0 1,125m 2:40.0 85 594 21 141
18:00.0 1,102m 2:43.3 80 576 20 142
24:00.0 1,089m 2:45.2 78 566 20 143
30:00.0 1,086m 2:45.7 77 564 20 145

Most exciting thing on my training horizon is my current lifetime metres are now: 993,041

Heading for my first Millionaire T-Shirt. Are those still free from Concept2?

J-Dog

[Iain]

HI J-Dog, glad to see you making progress. UT1 & 2 are training zones. I do not believe that the HR zones calculated by any formula are universally applicable. "Threshold" is also an inexact term, but is broadly the maximum sustainable at steady physiological state. UT1 is the zone below this. The maximum for UT2 is usually defined as when breathing frequency increases, but as we artificially align this with the stroke on a rower this is harder to measure than if doing many other sports. It is also where you can maintain a low level of HR drift for a substantial period. But there is some disagreement on the use of the terms. I have seen some say that 10k best pace is UT1, although I would dispute this as I hit threshold quite rapidly at that pace and so would say this was AT. For me UT2 pace is a pace I am comfortable will allow recovery for the next day while UT1 is a faster pace that falls below a "hard" session but where 40 min+ for me would broadly be repeatable for many repeats, but not allow recovery from a harder previous session.

Consensus would be that SS training should probably be UT2, but I use UT1 when I will not be able to row the following day or to build resilence for longer rows (Hour+ TTs).

Sorry if too long winded, happy to clarify if any of that is unclear.

[J-Dog]

Thanks, Iain. It seems more complex than I’d appreciated.

J-Dog

[Iain]

J-Dog, the truth is that for most of us the main thing is rowing regularly and not over doing it so that we get slower! I don't do weights, so try and put in "Strength" sessions on the erg as poor substitutes. Trouble is that I need to be recovered and am often tempted into challenges or harder sessions when that it is the case! Anyway 12 x 30S r1' for me today at R24, so [should be] 12 rep repeats all out. Shocked to see last did this type of session over 3 months ago and last did this 14 months ago! then averaged 1:50.4 with best 138m so that was my target. Took a while to really drive:

Time Distnc Rate Split MaxHR % MinHR %
0:30.0 134 24 01:51.9 146 79.3% 108 58.7%
0:30.0 135 24 01:51.1 153 83.2% 114 62.0%
0:30.0 135 24 01:51.1 155 84.2% 116 63.0%
0:30.0 136 24 01:50.3 156 84.8% 116 63.0%
0:30.0 136 24 01:50.3 159 86.4% 116 63.0%
0:30.0 136 24 01:50.3 164 89.1% 119 64.7%
0:30.0 137 24 01:49.5 162 88.0% 121 65.8%
0:30.0 137 24 01:49.5 164 89.1% 125 67.9%
0:30.0 139 24 01:47.9 166 90.2% 127 69.0%
0:30.0 140 26 01:47.1 167 90.8% 126 68.5%
0:30.0 138 24 01:48.7 168 91.3% 129 70.1%
0:30.0 140 26 01:47.1 169 91.8% 130 70.7%
6:00 1644 24.3 1:49.5 169 91.8%

[spidermac]

Smashed your target Iain well done.
Jdog I echo Iains comments that consistency trumps everything else, erg fitness seems to disappear quite fast & its easy to get disheartened chasing ever harder/faster splits.
Feeling a bit shaky this morning so decided on a 30min but split up a bit differently.
Wup - 1k
Time dist spm HR split
05:00.0 1101 18 140 02:16.2
05:00.0 1132 20 153 02:12.5
05:00.0 1168 22 160 02:08.4
05:00.0 1132 18 160 02:12.5
05:00.0 1161 20 163 02:09.1
05:00.0 1190 22 166 02:06.0
30:00.0 6881 20 157 02:10.7
CD - 1k
OK session, RHR was hi at the start so goal was just to do some sort of session. Mission accomplished.

[Iain]

You're under selling yourself here Spider , averaged quicker on R18 than your usual R20 and massively neg split as well as stepping the pace up as you rated up.

[spidermac]

Working on the house today so squeezed in a 30minR20 at end of play.
Wup - 1k
Time dist spm HR split
06:00.0 1334 20 139 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 140 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 143 02:14.9
06:00.0 1335 20 145 02:14.8
06:00.0 1335 20 148 02:14.8
30:00.0 6670 20 143 02:14.9
CD = 1k
Felt nice & relaxed even tho HR says otherwise!!!!

[Iain]

Spider, lowest HR for this session this month tho' so making progress

[spidermac]

Set off on CTC but HD on R2 - really not ready for hard intervals!!! So rescued with a 2x15minR2 session, was very tempted to stop after 1st set!
Wup - 4k!!
Time dist spm HR split
15:00.0 3527 23 160 02:07.5
05:00.0 1131 20 154 02:12.6
04:00.0 934 23 158 02:08.4
03:00.0 719 24 162 02:05.1
02:00.0 490 27 164 02:02.4
01:00.0 253 28 166 01:58.5
R about 3min.
15:00.0 3563 23 163 02:06.2
05:00.0 1149 20 157 02:10.5
04:00.0 948 22 162 02:06.5
03:00.0 724 25 164 02:04.3
02:00.0 493 27 167 02:01.7
01:00.0 253 29 166 01:58.5
CD - 1k
Supposed to be 2min rest but had messed up intervals on PM3 so had to reset more like 3mins!! Missed spm target a few times hey ho onwards & upwards.

[Iain]

Great recovery Spider, managing to neg split after a near H/D is fantastic.

Yesterday managed a longish UT2, but rest of weekend painting my daughters new flat. Had a 90S break for call of nature and failed on OCD front. But HR satisfactorily low.

Time Distnc Rate Pace Hrmax % HRmin %
15:00 3,151 17 02:22.8 140 76.1% 096 52.2%
15:00 3,151 17 02:22.8 144 78.3% 135 73.4%
15:00 3,151 17 02:22.8 147 79.9% 140 76.1%
15:00 3,151 17 02:22.8 146 79.3% 138 75.0%
15:00 3,151 17 02:20.8 142 77.2% 104 56.5%
15:00 3,150 17 02:21.8 145 78.8% 136 73.9%
15:00 3,151 17 02:22.8 144 78.3% 139 75.5%
1:45 22050 17.0 2:22.9 147 79.9%

[Mat]

After a quick read through recent posts, I have to admit that I’ve been failing on the consistency somewhat!

Great work from Spider with well-executed 30’ sessions, and even managing a respectable outcome from an abandoned CTC session
Good to see Iain working on the long stuff ahead of your far-too-long-for-me-to-even-contemplate session
J-dog - great to see pace increasing as HR drops. Really encouraging mark of improved fitness

So, I’m trying to address my lack of consistency whilst balancing rowing, cycling and training for a Hyrox event with my daughter, and have developed a plan which I’m sure I’ll tweak as I go forward:

Mon - Row 3 x 12 r2’, Short Weight set

Tue - Zwift Race

Wed - Row 3 x 6 r2’, Treadmill 5k

Thur - Row 6 x 2 r2’, Hyrox Training

Fri - Zwift Race

Sat - Catch up, rest or easy

Sun - Hyrox run through

Started today with the 3x12, and decided towards the end of the first interval to make the middle one an R20 as I would t manage three free-rate intervals at a decent pace.

First learning - don’t put my longer row session the day after the Hyrox run-through which is the only session that leaves me with DOMS

IMG_1391.jpeg (35.25 KiB) Viewed 2517 times

[Ian Bee]

Great to see all the activity - highly motivating

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Gentle resumption to training after a few days away. Sluggish marathon pace and within HR target.

[Iain]

Not much lost during your break Ian, you'll soon be back where you were. Mat, rather you than me with Hyrox, don't you need to do some ski-erg? Program looks tough, how long do you have to get ready?

[Emander]

Lets see if I can use thread as inspiration and/or to help with training consistency. Today, I decided to do a fartlek session (or perhaps an ad hoc semi structured interval session). I gave myself 5 easy minutes to decide what I would do for the next hard minutes. I have attached a picture showing the result, I hope! Its nice to others workouts eventhough most seem quite fast.

[spidermac]

Tried to row yesterday but felt very weak & shaky so stopped.
Felt better today so 20x1minon1off power strokes. Last time 1.57.8 pre treatment.
Wup - 2.5k
Time dist spm HR split
01:00.0 249 21 150 02:00.4
01:00.0 253 21 154 01:58.5
01:00.0 253 21 155 01:58.5
01:00.0 254 21 158 01:58.1
01:00.0 255 21 160 01:57.6
01:00.0 255 21 161 01:57.6
01:00.0 256 21 161 01:57.1
01:00.0 255 21 162 01:57.6
01:00.0 255 21 163 01:57.6
01:00.0 256 21 163 01:57.1
01:00.0 256 21 163 01:57.1
01:00.0 255 21 164 01:57.6
01:00.0 255 21 165 01:57.6
01:00.0 255 21 166 01:57.6
01:00.0 255 21 165 01:57.6
01:00.0 255 21 166 01:57.6
01:00.0 255 22 167 01:57.6
01:00.0 255 22 167 01:57.6
01:00.0 255 21 166 01:57.6
01:00.0 254 21 167 01:58.1
20:00.0 5090 21 162 01:58.3
So similar to last time not hitting spm target. Not too far off last times split, happy to do something a bit harder.

[Ian Bee]

Emander - nice session and look forward to seeing more.

Spider - really consistent and you should be pleased with the comparison

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In theory alternating between 5k pace then marathon pace, capped HR at less than 92%.

In the end, 5k pace was too much this morning and positive splitting was the only way forward. Likely went out too fast for the first rep and paid the price. Frankly even the marathon pace was flakey. Plus side, within the HR cap.

[Emander]

Thanks Ian, I got som more meters in today. Today session was an easy steady state workout. Done on feeling, but capped by HR at 140 bpm.

[Iain]

Emander, I am confused with your graphs. The pace seems to be varying much more than power when in fact the latter should be a direct correlation with 3 times the variation. It looks like some strokes were <2:00 split while others are much slower than average. You should try and be more consistent than this on SS rows as it is more efficient and most find easier to settle into a rhythm and then maintain it. Also, while it is difficult to see from the scale, it looks like your rating is 23-25SpM or so. While some people find that this works for them, it is higher than most. You may find that concentrating on a consistent slightly slower stroke means a more powerful and efficient stroke.

Spider looks like a good session. Never done 20 1'r1', or indeed R21 short intervals, but looks like it became quite hard, but a great result.

Ian, it will take a few days to get your sharpness back, but well done to get through this.

After work crisis and 2 days of decorating, got back on it today. Took my "UT1ish" pace up a little by adding another 5M:

Time Distnc Rate Pace Hrmax % HRmin %
15:00 3,311 19 02:15.9 150 81.5% 088 47.8%
15:00 3,311 19 02:15.9 156 84.8% 147 79.9%
15:00 3,310 19 02:16.0 160 87.0% 153 83.2%
15:00 3,311 19 02:15.9 163 88.6% 158 85.9%
15:00 3,310 19 02:16.0 165 89.7% 160 87.0%
1:15 16549 22.4 2:16.0 165 89.7%

HR got to threshold (162-165), but stayed reasonable for first hour.

[Ian Bee]

Emander - to tag on to Iain's thoughts, what software are you using to track your sessions? I've rather settled on Ergzone (as pasted in most of my posts) which, for me at least, gives quite clear graphs and data and I've found it to be very useful for seeing the trends which Iain mentioned.

Iain - lots of good metres there

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Held back again from the absolute pace required (marathon to 10k then marathon) in order to both finish and keep within the HR target of 80-90%. Potentially the temperature drop (and some kind of mild sniffle) is getting in the way, but that is rather excuse like in the context

20spm for that pace is proving a slight mental block, but I'll chip away

[spidermac]

Feel a bit out of place doing less than a HM on this thread among all the stamlords!!! Mat where r u!! We 30min men need to stick together!!
Did some climbing training this am & thought ! would try a double session - 30R20 this pm.
Wup - 1k
Time dist spm HR split
06:00.0 1334 20 147 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 149 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 153 02:14.9
06:00.0 1334 20 155 02:14.9
06:00.0 1335 20 155 02:14.8
30:00.0 6668 20 151 02:14.9
CD - 1k
From an RPE perspective didn`t feel any harder than usual but HR says otherwise. First 5 mins HR was jumping all over the place but could have been the HR monitor giving some problems.

[Emander]

Emander, I am confused with your graphs. The pace seems to be varying much more than power when in fact the latter should be a direct correlation with 3 times the variation. It looks like some strokes were <2:00 split while others are much slower than average. You should try and be more consistent than this on SS rows as it is more efficient and most find easier to settle into a rhythm and then maintain it. Also, while it is difficult to see from the scale, it looks like your rating is 23-25SpM or so. While some people find that this works for them, it is higher than most. You may find that concentrating on a consistent slightly slower stroke means a more powerful and efficient stroke.

Thanks for the tips (both Iain and Ian), but I think most of the noise is introduced on the conversion to either first Strava or second to intervals.icu. Actually it looks that it's from the first conversion to Strava, I also bike and I used to run, hence the need to use something else than just ErgData and the logbook. This is how the data looks directly in the logbook. I'm sure that I could be more consistent though, I'll try it out for the next wout. When it comes to rate I'm rather short at 168 cm or 5'6''(?). Or I just need to put more power into each stroke

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