old erg vs. new erg - your experience regarding PM readings ?

[Claudius]

An interesting video at RowAlong about the possible differences between a new and used erg. I row regularly on 2 different erg's. One is 12 years old, the other about 4. One is at home, the other i carry with me to my job, etc. Both show the same results in terms of power and heart rate around LT1. If you now also take into account the erg from the gym, which - what a miracle - is in a much worse condition, rusty chain, etc. so this erg shows around LT1 ~10-15 watts less with corresponding heart rate. Interesting was then also a discussion on Facebook, I can not link because I have deactivated again . Here it was about subtleties regarding the shock band, its resistances and how far these affect the performance values, because these forces are not recorded by the pm5. Overall, I still find, since just from my own experience described above and also Jons Video: there is a good correlation of the results old vs. new, so the erg for the normal training athlete determines good valid comparable values, helping to achieve ones training goals - slightly minor differences, so i guess, wont effect training outcome. In the competition area, the Ergs should still have the same conditions.

What is your experience - do you care after all ? Do we need dual powermeter readings, or maybe triple ??? should we finishing our sport and doing what everyone else is doing, watching football, drinking coke, BMI>40 ? - sorry, sometimes the trickster get out of me ! I do apologize!

[Draggon]

should we finishing our sport and doing what everyone else is doing, watching football, drinking coke, BMI>40 ? - sorry, sometimes the trickster get out of me ! I do apologize!

I don't have any useful insight to your wonderings, but I had to acknowledge that this bit made me laugh...

[Tako]

Well, I am not an Expert and I also have read the Facebook post you refer too. Also I am not good enough to compete against the best where these small effects matter hence here my 2 cents:

Personally I have seen that I am faster in gyms with an erg in good condition but I think that is mainly due to psychological effects of people watching, open space, motivation, distraction from the pain, etc.

I am sure that one can find proof that same effort will give slightly different results on different ergs, but I also think that those are so minimal that they in most cases have no effect. Remember, after all we mainly compete against ourselves.

If one would require 100% equal results measured down to the 10th of the seconds over a 2k one would rob us from the great C2 environment that we all enjoy. I can live with it as I believe the difference la are so small anyway.

For the big events the factor is normally taken out of the equation as they have new and equal ergs for all.

In virtual racing of course that isn’t the case but I have not seen that many races where the differences were that small that one could claim they lost because of the condition of their erg.

Of course virtual races have the disadvantages that conditions aren’t 100% equal but still better than no race. After all you never know whether some of the competitors there have a towel over the cage or other things helping them.

For me the fact that there is the C2 universe of comparable results is live saver, so I love it as it is!

[Claudius]

I am faster in gyms with an erg in good condition but I think that is mainly due to psychological effects of people watching, open space, motivation, distraction from the pain, etc.

Yes, that was true for me once too, I had a longer answer ready, it contained a bit of sexual explosiveness so I don't share it without further ado !

[Wolfmiester]

Interesting ... I use my own erg at home (2yrs old) and the rowing club ones, which are much older.
Even though I set the df the same, I feel that the ones at the club are easier. I.e. I can get <1:59 R20 easier there than I can at home.
I'm pretty convinced of this, even though it's unlikely and there is no scientific evidence.

[Draggon]

Interesting ... I use my own erg at home (2yrs old) and the rowing club ones, which are much older.
Even though I set the df the same, I feel that the ones at the club are easier. I.e. I can get <1:59 R20 easier there than I can at home.
I'm pretty convinced of this, even though it's unlikely and there is no scientific evidence.

Curious - Have you ever measured the DF on the home vs. gym machines? (Setting is one thing, but each individual machine will spit out the ACTUAL DF for that specific machine/setting through the menus)

[Wolfmiester]

Yes Ron, always go in the menu to “measure” and set at 125…

[Claudius]

So we can say different conditions shows different results - with a minor bias. Ok...i didnt get a prompt...i can kept it for myself.

[Tako]

John had some fun comparing and Old and a New Erg

https://youtu.be/15KT3efpeTQ

[Draggon]

Yes Ron, always go in the menu to “measure” and set at 125…

Ah, gotcha. I read "setting" as just moving the little pointer to the same place on each machine - apologies...

When I was on the cruise ship a couple of weeks ago, they only had one erg - a Concept 2 Model E with a PM4. When I first sat on it, I noted that the DF pointer was set at Max (10+). I thought, that's a bit too high for my liking, but before I moved it, I checked the DF in the Menus and it was around 106!

Between that and the strap that wouldn't hold, it was an interesting erging week, but I made it work.

[Wolfmiester]

John had some fun comparing and Old and a New Erg

https://youtu.be/15KT3efpeTQ

Thanks Tako, another interesting article.
Didn’t realise John had a YT channel, now seen him twice this week. He’s quite good isnt he

[Claudius]

As promised, a brief summary. I've had the new erg for almost 11 months now. According to my subjective assessment - and here I am talking exclusively about a feeling around LT1 - I have to say that the new erg, in which everything is still very stiff and firm, gives me minimally better times on LT1 than the two older ones. It should be mentioned that the oldest @home is on slides, which as mentioned gives advantages in sprints. Regarding the pace on LT1, as described above, the newest one without slides gives the best performance. Minimal differences. Subjective. No science. No level of evidence.