Rowing workout for a Runner

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riccardoyaya
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Rowing workout for a Runner

Post by riccardoyaya »

I guys, I'm from Italy, 3 years ago i discovered the rowing machine (tecnogym model) in a gym, initially i started to do some easy pace traing as a running-crosstraining.
I literally love this machine, so i decided to buy a C2 model D, and i started to do some miles on that, but nothing more..

In the last few months i decide to do a lot of cross training , i prepare a marathon with a lot of miles on C2 (in the last few months only easy training on rower to make a lot of volume) like 30' easy or 45' easy, this schedule work great for me, running a low miliage and working a lot on C2 and bikes I can make my Running PB on Marathon (2h30'59'') ..

So... now.. i'm thinking if i can do something more, like repets on long repets... can this increase my running performance? my 5000m TEST on row is 19'20'' - @1:56/500m

only tryed to achieve some workout type 20x1' @1:49 rec. 1' and 4x2000, @1:56


can someone help me?
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Claudius
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Re: Rowing workout for a Runner

Post by Claudius »

I wanted to be quiet...but a question to everyone invites me to answer in my own way ! First of all, great congratulations! 2:30.59 on a marathon. You are strong. Certainly also light. Let me guess: less than 65kg or around. Sure you can improve your marathon running times with indoor rowing by optimising your carviovascular fitness and muscle metabolism with targeted slowtwitch training. I have reported on this here: viewtopic.php?t=3760
In the end, it will always be like this: if you want to be fast in running you have to run, if you want to be fast on the RowErg you have to push that air wheel over and over again. Now comes the crucial point: running is pretty much high impact. Bradytrophic slow regenerating tissues are heavily stressed and overuse over time will increase the risk of injury, and in the case of injury, possibly set back training for several months. This is another reason for the so-called off-season in endurance sports. In addition to the cardiovascular system, the bradytrophic tissue should also regenerate here. Off-seasons for runners or triathletes should be at least ~6w. What to do during this time? I am writing all this "out of the blue" with the help of a friend - no guarantee of accuracy, no level of evidence !!!!While the regeneration of the CV system only takes about 2w, after this time you can just start again with low impact sport, even in the higher intensity range (low drag !!!). Now the RowErg comes into play. 4 weeks to build up a certain indoor rowing base, which should also be maintained during the running season, e.g. by doing your chosen sessions in coordination with your main sport. Regarding the 65kg - a friend tells me that the times at which the rowing pace is roughly equal to the running pace, at roughly the same training volume and training experience of an athlete, are just around this 65kg for men and around 60kg for women - no guarantee of accuracy. There is a lot of head scratching about comparing two different sports. The most important thing in a nutshell: want to run fast- main focus on running. In the off season, set foundation for indoor rowing, train with low drag, focus on ST fibres with 5k, 10k, HM as training areas. And keep indoor rowing during the season. Otherwise you have to start again and again in the off season. Rowing is ideal as a regenerative part in the main season - here too low drag~90-105, low impact- you can even reduce the impact by using slides- i am considerung buying some !
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Mat
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Re: Rowing workout for a Runner

Post by Mat »

Hi Riccardo

Wow! To achieve a 2:30 marathon on the back of low mileage supported by rowing and cycling is incredible ^O^

I have to agree with Claudius in that the best way to get faster at running is through running with the right balance of mileage and high/low intensity.

Rowing and cycling are both a great form of additional training but its unlikely that they'll contribute to improvements in running speed. A former triathlete I know with a marathon PB almost identical to yours would swear by rowing as a fantastic replacement for cycling during the winter months.

On a personal basis, I was running for much of the last decade, and would revert back to rowing whenever an injury prevented me from running. Rowing is great for that because of the lack of impact through the joints / injury. I was never in your league however - as a 90kg Clydesdale rather than a racing snake I tried for a few years to bring my marathon PB down but when 3 races in 18 months each produced a near identical 3:12 time I figured I'd forget the roads and head into the mountains! Unfortunately a recent hip replacement means that even my modest running days are over!

In terms of what training to do - my suggestion would be that the longer intervals would be the best solution. You mentioned the 4 x 2k which is great, and perhaps go a little longer on each interval with 3 x 12' or 3 x 15' with a couple of minutes rest in between. Shorter intervals such as 3'/1000m or 1'30" / 400m would replicate similar repeats on the track.

I hope that helps a bit, but most of all - Good Luck! :fsbgrin: :D
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riccardoyaya
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Re: Rowing workout for a Runner

Post by riccardoyaya »

Hi, my weight is 68kg and I'm 176cm.

When i prepare Valencia 2022 marathon, i only use row for easy cross training, so.. before this preparation i used to double without any type of cross training, and my km per week were about 170/180km with 4..5 days of double, only running workout and 1/2 session on gym.. full body easy work, a lot of core.

When i started to prepare Valencia, I decided to run 1 time a day, second training was shifted on ROW or Bike (or bike on elite direto x.. zwift) , so my km per week became max 105/110 and a lot of time was shifted on erg or bike.

I fell very strong, QUALITY work only on running.. max 45/60' on erg very easy pace... 2:15 / 500m and max 45/90' on bike very easy low Z2 / z1 heart rate.

Now i started to do something new, on Quality Day i try to do a good running work on morning, and in afternoon something on erg, i don't know if this is the good direction but i want to try..
riccardoyaya
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Re: Rowing workout for a Runner

Post by riccardoyaya »

yesterday i tried this 2 workout:

AM before work, running: 15' warm up and 5 x 2000m 6'25''/6'26'' rec. 2' walking + warm down

PM after work before dinner, rowing: 10' warm up .. very easy pace 2:20 - 20 spm, than 15 times 400m avg 1:53.8 (1'31'') recovery 1'00''.

In my philosophy i prefer to do 2 hard workout in a day and recovery/easy for 3..4 days rather than 1 day hard 1 day easy 1 day hard ecc... i don't like to do 3 hard days in a week , i prefere 1 day of this doubles, and in the week end another workout for running, like long run with repeats ..
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Claudius
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Re: Rowing workout for a Runner

Post by Claudius »

68kg- I would still consider that "around 65kg". 5x2k...classic VO2 max intervals. Super fast 6:25 ! Personally, I prefer the shorter ones 2-3min long, but definitely also in the anaerobic range from the watt values- e.g. in the form of a decreasing power output- like Zwift Academy Road 2021 Workout #2 :peak Vo2 Intervals. This is roughly equivalent to the Peteplan 4x1k in terms of load. Some Pete Plan workouts you can do on intense days. I would look at where your strengths and weaknesses are - since indoor rowing is not your main sport, I would also make sure that the workouts, i.e. the intervals, suit you - then they will flow better. Doing 2 intensive workouts in one day - that's possible - functional overreaching - I call these "red days". Here I find it very important to listen to your body's feeling: go in fresh and then give yourself enough time to recover - 3 days are short - everyone is different, I might need 4. It might also help to look at wko5- to see where your strengths and weaknesses are - but it's more something for cycling. Do you use the stryd powermeter or something like that ?
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