The Pete Plan etc

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Iain
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Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by Iain »

Well done Jon.

At the risk of repeating myself (and not for you Jon, as you showed that you understand in the rest of your post, but in case this is read by someone with less knowledge of the PP), the 5k + 0.5S is an indication of the best that Pete ever achieved and so can form an ultimate target, as he said repeatedly, it (and the other similar ones for all the other sessions) should never be used as the target for a particular session, although it can be used as a predictor the other way around (ie you are likely to be capable of a 5k slightly quicker than the average for your recent 4 x 2k). Personally I have always been relatively slower on 4 x 2k than this and faster than 5k pace for 5 x 1.5k. from discussions with my PT friend, I have a relative weakness in my aerobic threshold and hence 5k. I compensate for this by extending my partially anaerobic performance (sometimes called "transition" in C2 sites, but more usually "VO2max region" as in a 2k). As a result, I seem to be able to compensate for 1500's, but doing so for 2ks takes too much out of me to enable 4 repeats. Basically we are all different!

As an aside, I have been wondering recently at the differences between the challenges faced by a particular distance to different paced rowers. When asked, most people seem to agree that the key statistic about an interval or piece is the duration NOT the absolute distance, lt, someone doing an all out mile in 7:30 (about 2:20 pace) will respond physiologically in a similar way to an elite athlete doing a 7:30 2.5k (6 min 2k pace). Just because they are slower doesn't mean that their anaerobic capacity will last any longer. So to these athletes a mile should be done more conservatively than for the elite and importantly the 2k is in the no-man's land between VO2 max and threshold rather than around VO2 max as performed by the elite. One of many examples where we need to be careful in advising the older amateurs (most of us) based on the experiences of and research on the elite.

Do people agree with these musings or have alternative thoughts?

- Iain
52 year old Lwt (in ability and weight) trying to develop a technique that doesn't cause hysterics and start rowing regularly now I am working again.
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Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by Wolfmiester »

I’m not particularly scientific, or verbose, when it comes to the details. I tend to focus on a target pace and don’t really care how I get there. However, I understand enough of it, just, to agree wholeheartedly with your post Iain. 🤓
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Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by spidermac »

JonT 32sec improvement - not surprised u felt knackered. As someone who has been bitten too many times by the PP, big improvements feel good but usually mean a stall is coming in the near future!!!!
Iain I agree that everyone has their bogey sessions due to differing strengths/weaknesses. I was/am? better at sprinting than the longer distances, always used to struggle on the longer PP intervals. ( trying to remedy this :D ). I think u have to maximise what u have got, so for me best to factor in a sprint at the end of sessions ( also psychologically easier than flat pace I think). For someone more aerobically inclined probably better to flat pace it.
Anyway enuff theory - today HR cap (148) 30minR20.
Wup - 1k
Time Dist Spm HR split Prev
06:00.0 1451 20 139 02:04.0 (2.04.3)
06:00.0 1454 20 145 02:03.7 (2.04.3)
06:00.0 1450 20 146 02:04.1 (2.04.3)
06:00.0 1441 20 148 02:04.9 (2.05.0)
06:00.0 1432 20 148 02:05.6 (2.05.6)
30:00.0 7225 20 145 02:04.5 (2.04.7)
CD - 2k
A slight improvement (- 0.2s average) but HR wee bit higher. Temps a balmy 11 degrees felt sweltering after the last few weeks - got quite a sweat on!!! :shock:
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Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by Iain »

On the right track Spider.

I attempted the 5x1500 and despite the raised HR and limited training, set out with my target of 1:57.8 from December on the assumption that this looked a bit soft compared to 1:58.6 4x2k 4 weeks ago.

Time distn rate pace - comment
05:53.3 1,500 27 01:57.8 - Hard, not sure I can maintain that rating 95% HRmax
05:52.2 1,500 27 01:57.4 - Didn't feel worse, but HR stayed at 98% for over a minute
05:51.1 1,500 28 01:57.0 - Only got through by deciding it was last one then no sprint HR 97% max
01:02.5 ,268 28. 01:56.6 - Minor cramp gave H/D demons their opportunity when HR only 91%
15:00.0 3664 24.7 2:02.8 - after 6 mins to make up session HR 93% after 2 mins, hit 96%

So failure, but hopefully some benefit towards weekend's CTC attempt.
52 year old Lwt (in ability and weight) trying to develop a technique that doesn't cause hysterics and start rowing regularly now I am working again.
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Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by spidermac »

Bad luck Iain, but I think 95%HR on the first of 5 intervals is asking a bit much!!! May have been better to drop the split 1 or 2 secs to finnish the session, but still some good training in those 3 reps & a good guide for next attempt.
Waterfall for me today. Hurt my back in Jan just before this was due so have not done one since last Nov. Wasn`t sure what to expect but thought if I get close to last average would be happy. Last time - 1.54.2/28spm/164HR
Wup - 2k
Time Dist spm HR Split Prev
11:27.7 3000 29 159 01:54.6 (1.54.7)
09:32.3 2500 29 162 01:54.4 (1.54.3)
07:33.5 2000 31 164 01:53.3 (1.53.3)
28:33.5 7500 29 161 01:54.2 (1.54.2)
CD - 2k
Well happy with that. Felt hard from middle of R2 & starting last rep didn`t think I could match last times split. Will probably go for the CTC at the weekend as well Iain, hoping for sub 1.54.
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Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by Wolfmiester »

Steady as she (he) goes boys, don't push too hard.
Sort of a taper week, so skipped Monday after the 3x20 zoom erg on Sunday and knowing my rowing club has Erg night every Tue.
Thought I'd post this one as its both good meters in the bank and one that we repeat every now and then.
12'/10/8/6/4/2/10 90s rest
R18/20/22/24/26/28/'free'
The final 10 is either hanging on for grim death, or a cool down depending on how the previous 42 have gone :-) :-)
Meters for me were 13410 @ 1:56.3 an improvement of 0.7
Interestingly R18 first 12 was actually slightly slower, but R20/22/24 much quicker. Managed to hold on to just under 1:59 for final 10.
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Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by JonT »

Some good sessions here folks.

Iain, that looks like it was tough from the start. By the way, I hadn’t realised that the PP paces were Pete’s best results! That session really drained me. I should have pulled out.

Spider - I wouldn’t bother with the CTC if I were you. After all you wouldn’t want to knock me down a boat, surely Image

Steve - I like the look of that session. Pretty sure my final 10 would be cool down though.

Fitness Matters WoW for me today. I ended up with an OCD result, hitting the pace targets to the exact 0.1s on all intervals. A nice enjoyable UT1 session.

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Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by spidermac »

Look like some nice sessions JonT & Wolfie.
Power strokes for me today. 5x5mins R2min. First 4 sets @170DRF, last set @120drf.
Wup - 2k
Time Dist spm HR Split Prev
05:00.0 1274 21 153 01:57.7 (1.58.1) 2.5min@20spm+2.5min@22
05:00.0 1290 22 156 01:56.2 (1.56.3) 2min@20/2min@22/1min@24
05:00.0 1316 24 161 01:53.9 (1.53.2) 2min@22/2min@24/1min@26
05:00.0 1340 26 163 01:51.9 (1.51.4) 2min@24/2min@26/1min@28
05:00.0 1323 28 162 01:53.3 (1.53.4) 2min@26/2min@28/1min@30
25:00.0 6543 24 159 01:54.6 (1.53.4)
CD - 2k
Didn`t quite match last times average but happy enuff with the result. Sweating buckets in the balmy temps - 9 degrees! :lol:
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Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by Wolfmiester »

THE PETE PLAN RULES 8)
Job done after 2 full rounds on the plan. The numbers simply do not lie.
I was ridiculously nervous before hand, which is unusual for me as I rely on the pace data and everything pointed to it going ok. :?
First target was 1:44.8 to make sure, then ideally 1:44.5 to get to 6:58
2k - 6:57.1/1:44.2/31
500 - 1:43.9 first 6-10 strokes went way too quickly
1000 - 1:44.8 back to target
1500 - 1:44.8 breathing harder, but should be in the bag
2000 - 1:43.5 should/could have gone harder from longer out?

I'm tempted to carry on for another month (and probably will) but as soon as golf and rowing otw re-opens the erg will take a back seat :)
Thanks for the encouragements chaps.
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Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by spidermac »

Well done Wolfie. =D> =D> =D> I am sure the PP helped - your last 4x1k indicated a sub 2k was nailed on but I think you started from a good fitness base which helped!!! Enjoy.
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Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by paulgould »

Wolfmiester wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:39 pm THE PETE PLAN RULES 8)
Job done after 2 full rounds on the plan. The numbers simply do not lie.
I was ridiculously nervous before hand, which is unusual for me as I rely on the pace data and everything pointed to it going ok. :?
First target was 1:44.8 to make sure, then ideally 1:44.5 to get to 6:58
2k - 6:57.1/1:44.2/31
500 - 1:43.9 first 6-10 strokes went way too quickly
1000 - 1:44.8 back to target
1500 - 1:44.8 breathing harder, but should be in the bag
2000 - 1:43.5 should/could have gone harder from longer out?

I'm tempted to carry on for another month (and probably will) but as soon as golf and rowing otw re-opens the erg will take a back seat :)
Thanks for the encouragements chaps.
Well done Steve - thats a great row =D> =D> =D>
You covered 2k in less time than it normally takes Itoje to give away his first penalty of the game :lol: :lol:

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200m - 30.8
300m - 47.7
30r20 - 7754m
12 hr - 139300m
100 mile - 14:10.12
200km - 18:28.30
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Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by Wolfmiester »

Ah Paul, you giveth and you take away 😂
Maro is possibly the one shining light in a dark English tunnel at the moment 😢
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Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by paulgould »

Wolfmiester wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:15 pm Ah Paul, you giveth and you take away 😂
Maro is possibly the one shining light in a dark English tunnel at the moment 😢
Maybe with a blind referee :lol: :lol: .
Fantastic athlete but a very dirty, niggly player imo.
I reckon Johnny May is your one true world-class player, but against any team with a strong tight-five he is hardly ever going to get decent ball to work with.
The less said about your front row and SH, the better too :lol: :lol: :lol:

Anyway, back on topic - how much of your 2k success do you credit purely to the PP and how much to your base strength and conditioning?

Paul G
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200m - 30.8
300m - 47.7
30r20 - 7754m
12 hr - 139300m
100 mile - 14:10.12
200km - 18:28.30
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Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by Wolfmiester »

I’d use the term base fitness rather than strength, which would have been pretty ok.
Lots of meters on the Erg during lockdown which has resulted in improved fitness with some bonus weight loss thrown in (we are roughly the same weight at this present time 🤗).
The PP interval training is needed to sharpen up at the speed end, I’d put an educated guess at the past 6 weeks knocking about 8 seconds off.
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Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by Kevinhorne44 »

Wolfmiester wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:39 pm THE PETE PLAN RULES 8)
Job done after 2 full rounds on the plan. The numbers simply do not lie.
I was ridiculously nervous before hand, which is unusual for me as I rely on the pace data and everything pointed to it going ok. :?
First target was 1:44.8 to make sure, then ideally 1:44.5 to get to 6:58
2k - 6:57.1/1:44.2/31
500 - 1:43.9 first 6-10 strokes went way too quickly
1000 - 1:44.8 back to target
1500 - 1:44.8 breathing harder, but should be in the bag
2000 - 1:43.5 should/could have gone harder from longer out?

I'm tempted to carry on for another month (and probably will) but as soon as golf and rowing otw re-opens the erg will take a back seat :)
Thanks for the encouragements chaps.
=D> =D> well done Steve 😎
I'm sure if you carry on. You will trim a bit more off that time too.
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Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by Iain »

Nice 2k Steve, what were the ratings in the splits? Spider, great waterfall & good 30'. Jon nice HR for those paces, I think I could make them but HR would be way over 90%!

CTC for me today after another 4 days without rowing (details on that thread) 1:57.3 3x2k, so 5k - 1.1S at same rating, not too bad given limited sessions recently. Followed with an hour LSD. Legs really shaky and HR high (I had waited until breathing normally and HR was 55% max), shot up to 80% of max at 2:30 pace (the slowest I can row without compromising my stroke at normal DF), kept pace constant and actually drifted down to 74% by end?!

Anyone else get really shaky late in a session, have had it a few times, wonder whether it was low blood sugar.
52 year old Lwt (in ability and weight) trying to develop a technique that doesn't cause hysterics and start rowing regularly now I am working again.
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Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by Wolfmiester »

Well done on the CTC guys 👏🏼

Iain, 31/30/31/32 (probably a couple higher than intended/wanted, but it was a comfortable rhythm in the end).
With regard to your shakiness, I have some comments. But as always they are 100% personal to me and in no way a medical opinion. Plus, the last thing I want to do is put the frighteners on you!
My SVT heart condition was finally diagnosed after lengthy medical investigations after I had dizzy spells when training hard. Turns out my hr was spiking alarmingly (max 236) for a few seconds.
Now you’ll probably more on the right lines with the blood sugar level theory I’m sure, and “shaking” is slightly different to “dizziness”. But do take a care to check your hr stats in detail.
Cheers, Steve
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Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by Iain »

Thanks for the warning Steve, my HR never exceeded the max shown, so I think I am OK at present. This isn't associated with the hardest sessions, more the long ones and has only occurred when I am late for a meal. The increase in HR is max 10BPM. The only dizziness I have experienced is relatively early on harder TTs (actually more light headedness) while HR still climbing or when get up too quickly.
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Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by spidermac »

Iain sounds like a blood sugar crash. When I started my comeback was doing some of the longer sessions fasted in the morning & would sometimes get light headed, shaky & feel weak. Now make sure I have breakfast before rowing!
Wolverine today- Was going to do 60mins but cut it to 50mins details below.
Sequence - 176-184-176-184-176
Wup - 1k
Time Dist spm HR split
10:00.0 2335 18 129 02:08.4 (+9m)
10:00.0 2360 19 148 02:07.1 (+21m)
10:00.0 2329 18 140 02:08.8 (+5m)
10:00.0 2350 19 151 02:07.6 (+11m) - starting to struggle to hit splits & spm. :shock:
10:00.0 2278 18 136 02:11.6 (-46m) - thats enuff!! :lol: :lol:
50:00.0 11652 18 140 02:08.7
Faded badly in last 10min segment. :twisted: Struggled to hold 16spm as not used to this low rating.
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Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by Iain »

Spider, well done on completing that 5th interval. What happened to your HR? Was the monitor playing up as that pattern doesn't seem right! I had a strength session today, first for a while. 12 x 30S r1' R24. Messed up the first and only managed 136m (1:50.2), I think I was paying too much attention to rating and not enough to power! All the others 139&140, although some I finished at R20 to keep to 12 strokes. 1:47.9 average against 1:47.8 last time, not bad after CTC and an extra hour yesterday. Did a further hour LSD, mainly below 75% this time at 2:26.8 average, so big improvement on yesterday (and didn't feel as shaky).

I always have a breakfast, the issue was the 4 hour gap afterwards before rowing.
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Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by Wolfmiester »

Iain, for that session have you thought about making the ‘rest’ slightly longer and rowing easily?
It then becomes a ‘tabata’ session, which are proven to be good for power.

Thought I’d ride the coat tails of the 2k training and do a day 1 CTC 6k.
Difficult to predict pace accurately, so pick something doable and see if it can be improved...1:53
1k - 1:52.7/25
2k - 1:52.8/25
3k - 1:52.8/25
4k - 1:52.7/25
5k - 1:52.3/26
6k - 1:50.0/27
22:26.8/1:52.2/25
Almost enjoyable 😂
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Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by paulgould »

Wolfmiester wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:01 am Iain, for that session have you thought about making the ‘rest’ slightly longer and rowing easily?
It then becomes a ‘tabata’ session, which are proven to be good for power.

Thought I’d ride the coat tails of the 2k training and do a day 1 CTC 6k.
Difficult to predict pace accurately, so pick something doable and see if it can be improved...1:53
1k - 1:52.7/25
2k - 1:52.8/25
3k - 1:52.8/25
4k - 1:52.7/25
5k - 1:52.3/26
6k - 1:50.0/27
22:26.8/1:52.2/25
Almost enjoyable 😂
Excellent row, Steve ^O^ ^O^ ^O^
You are in a rich vein of form at the moment - long may it continue

P.S. I haven't even made any "I told you so" remarks about the weekend rugby :lol: :lol:

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Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by Iain »

Steve, you have a funny way of enjoying yourself! Well done in getting a good time in so early. If you are referring to the 30Sec with 1 min rest, the intention is to perform at maximum strength to mimic a weight session but utilising all rowing muscles in the same manner as when rowing. As for Tabata, I thought that these were done with very short rests (typically 20S on, 10S off), so that they are largely anaerobic, but also get CV system to maximum. These are better for training VO2max, but less good for absolute strength. As the intention is to stimulate muscle growth to offset the decline in muscle due to aging (and some of us have little to lose to start with!) and I only do 2 or so a month, I don't want to compromise this. Interested in the alternative Tabata approach you are referring to. Is this similar to my online bête noir where each interval is 1:30 at 4x1k pace followed by 3:30 at 4x2k pace without any rest between. Tried 4 times and only completed the 6 intervals once so far!
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Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by spidermac »

Great sesh Wolfie, keen doing the CTC this early! =D>
Iain classic tabata is 8R of 20sec on 10sec off, rinse repeat!!! :D Certainly very hard work but not sure its great for technique, I think these very short sessions develop into all out thrashes unless you are very disciplined ( not me) & injury risk is quite hi, I prefer power strokes to build strength a la Mr Gould ( tho not at his astronomical drag :lol: :lol: )
Todays plan = 8x500m. Last time in Jan - 1.45.1/35spm/163HR but I had been slacking on the PP sessions as I averaged 1.44.1/34spm/161 for this in Dec 2020. Hoping to get close to decembers tme but was fairly confident of an improvement from Jan.
Wup - 3k
Time Dist spm HR SPlit Prev (Jan/dec)
01:45.2 500 34 157 01:45.2 (1.45.6/1.45.3)
01:44.9 500 34 159 01:44.9 (1.45.0/1.44.9)
01:44.5 500 34 162 01:44.5 (1.44.8/1.44.5)
01:44.1 500 34 150 01:44.1 (1.44.6/1.44.3) - think HR stopped mid interval!!
01:43.9 500 35 162 01:43.9 (1.44.9/1.44.1)
01:43.8 500 35 163 01:43.8 (1.45.7/1.43.8) - starting to feel it!!
01:43.4 500 37 162 01:43.4 (1.45.4/1.43.5) - spm creeping up, not sure about the last rep. :shock:
01:42.6 500 40 160 01:42.6 (1.45.5/1.42.8) - an all out thrash last 150m to beat target. :lol:
13:52.3 4000 35 159 01:44.0 (1.45.1/1.44.1)
CD - 2k
Pleased to be in +ve territory again even tho by only 0.1sec however a good improvement from last month - didn`t blow up & didn`t have to lower the drag as last time.Was pretty close to max as HR only dropped to between 125-130 in rests on R4-R8. This game doesn`t get easier as u get fitter u just go faster & it hurts just as much.
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Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by Iain »

Great session Spider. I remember Pete saying that in his initial PP he used to be gasping after these and struggling to restart the final 4 intervals! although he did them at higher rating. I assume your comment that you were "starting to feel it" on rep 6 is British understatement! e always have 500m left in us unless we have done a sprint!
52 year old Lwt (in ability and weight) trying to develop a technique that doesn't cause hysterics and start rowing regularly now I am working again.
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