The Pete Plan etc

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Iain
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Re: The Pete Plan

Post by Iain »

Question for those with past experience of PP. When you have had a significant break from training, I know Pete says add 1S/500m on your return. Is this meant to be for every session for the full cycle, or do you regain the lost speed rapidly and so are able to reduce this increase in pace as you get back into training during the next cycle?

Basically I don't know how permanent the loss in pace is. Is this a permanent set back, or temporary setback recovered quickly?

Despite having done PP many times, I cannot recall having been at the tougher end of the plan (when the pacing matters) and resumed successfully after a short break.

- Iain
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Re: The Pete Plan

Post by spidermac »

Hi Iain here are my thoughts for what its worth. I do a first session eg 8x500m at a pace I know I can achieve. After that I look at previous times and the difference in sessions for each rotation I have done . so eg if I have done 8x500 at X, I may have done the speed pyramid at X+1sec so that is my target for the pyramid session. If I manage to go faster I reset for the next session again based on the difference. One caveat the first rotation after a long lay off will probably have much bigger differences than later rotations so I don`t use this!!! Hope that helps.
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Re: The Pete Plan

Post by spidermac »

After a few days off time for 4x2k - always a tuff one as its the longest interval session, & holding back on first interval always tuff but essential!! Last time 1.57.6/27spm/161HR
Wup - 2k
Time Dist SPM HR Split Prev
R1 - 07:50.2 2000 27 159 01:57.5 (1.58.6)
R2 - 07:47.8 2000 26 165 01:56.9 (1.57.9)
R3 - 07:46.3 2000 28 163 01:56.5 (1.57.6)
R4 - 07:41.9 2000 31 166 01:55.4 (1.56.4)
Tot -31:06.2 8000 27 163 01:56.6
CD - 2k
So a 1sec improvement - happy with that as on last interval wasn`t sure I could beat R3 time!!! Spm a bit ragged but probably better to rate up a bit on first 2 rounds as I hopefully get fitter.
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Re: The Pete Plan

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Wanted to do a longish row - decided on a Lvl4 session - used to do these regularly & found it a good way to keep your mind of the longggg way still to go.Wanted to be a bit of a strength wout as well so based off a 1.47 pace! :D Went for 176/180/176/180/176/180.
Wup - 1k
TIME DIST SPM HR SPLIT
10:00.0 2314 18 128 02:09.6 (+8m)
20:00.0 2333 18 147 02:08.5 (+10m)
30:00.0 2325 18 139 02:09.0 (+19m)
40:00.0 2338 18 153 02:08.3 (+15m)
50:00.0 2319 18 145 02:09.3 (+13m)
01:00:00 2332 18 153 02:08.6 (+9m)
01:00:00 13960 18 144 02:08.9 (+74m)
CD - 1k
Very sweaty. Stroke rate was a bit hard to keep constant but will get better. Felt abput right - an 80% effort
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Re: The Pete Plan

Post by fkoene »

Last week busy with the heptathlon, yesterday the CTC, some LSD's in between. Time for one of my least favorite PP distances, 4 x 2K.
HD'd in the last rep, with about 1.5K to go, I was putting too much pressure on myself thinking it could become the best of it's sort. After a couple of seconds picked it up again and managed to finish in 7:31.7, an overall average of 1:52.4. Not the fastest, but at least I finished.
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Re: The Pete Plan

Post by spidermac »

4x1k today - Last time - 1.52.2/29spm/162AVHR. Didn`t feel that energetic but thought have a go anyway.
Wup - 3k
Time Dist SPm HR Split Prev
R1 - 03:44.3 1000 33 161 01:52.1 (1.53.4)
R2 - 03:43.3 1000 30 164 01:51.6 (1.52.8)
R3 - 03:42.6 1000 33 169 01:51.3 (1.51.9)
R4 - 03:40.4 1000 34 167 01:50.2 (1.50.8)
Tot 14:50.6 4000 32 165 01:51.3
CD - 2k
A 0.9sec improvement - hard earned. On R3 felt I would be lucky to -ve split last round but tried out the double breathing thing & tho felt i would have to revert to my usual 1 breath at 700m to go managed to hold it to about 200m to go - looking at pace & HR it seems to have helped. I feel this is the hardest session to improve on for some reason. Sub 1.51 goal for next time.
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Re: The Pete Plan

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Great sessions Spidermac & Fred. I decided to have a go at Waterfall today as struggling with rating so thought 500M would be a car crash. relatively soft target on this one so used this despite my lay off (although 10k suggests that I have recovered the fitness lost).


Time Distn Rate Pace
12:24.8 3,000 24 02:04.1 - Really tough
10:19.5 2,500 24 02:03.9 - Couple of 2:07(22), glad to get through it
08:03.5 2,000 27 02:00.9 - 2:02 best pace achievable until sprint finish.
30:47.8 7,500 24.8 2:03.2 - 1.1S improvement, happy with that.
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Re: The Pete Plan

Post by spidermac »

Welcome back Iain its been a bit quiet recently, nice waterfall thats next for me. 30minR20 for my long row today. Last attempt in hot weather was abandoned at 15min. Best this year was 2.03.3/20spm/151HR
Wup - 2k
Time Dist SPM HR SPlit
06:00.0 1465 20 148 02:02.8
12:00.0 1475 20 155 02:02.0
18:00.0 1481 20 160 02:01.5
24:00.0 1495 20 163 02:00.4
30:00.0 1513 20 167 01:58.9
30:00.0 7429 20 158 02:01.1
CD - 2k
A 2.2sec improvement - sweaty but happy days felt controlled. SPI back near 10 where it should be.
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Re: The Pete Plan

Post by fkoene »

After a couple of days sniffing, being low in energy, did a pyramid today. A total of 13:48.4, being a 1:43.6 overall pace. Five seconds faster then my previous fastest pyramid. Guess the loss of energy was only temporarily.
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Re: The Pete Plan

Post by Iain »

That's impressive negatively splitting a 30R20, I can only dream of that power at the moment.

My online Tuesday session today was 7 x 2min R3', so close to the 8x500 PP session I have due. Really struggling with rate and power at the moment since my break. Last time 1:54.2 R30.7, thoughts of 1:55. Today:

Time Distn Rate Pace
02:00.0 525 30 01:54.3 - nearly target, slowed in middle
02:00.0 527 31 01:53.9 - slowed but picked up quickly
02:00.0 528 31 01:53.6 - behind with 30" to go, pulled back, long way to go
02:00.0 529 32 01:53.4 - Pushed hard, initially at 1:00 to go couldn't get prediction below 525, but found something at the end
02:00.0 529 32 01:53.4 - struggle throughout, made it with last 15" push
02:00.0 529 32 01:53.4 - 527 prediction until 45" to go
02:00.0 540 35 01:51.1 - Surprised any response, but much less than usual.
14:00 3706 31.9 1:53.3 - 0.9S improvement, better than hoped for.
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Re: The Pete Plan

Post by spidermac »

Nice session Iain, impressed u could sprint last one after holding same split on R4-R6. Fred a 5sec improvement on a low energy day is VERY impressive. =D> Waterfall for me today. Last time - 1.57.8/27spm/162AvHR
wup - 2k
Dist Time Dist SPM HR Split Prev
3k - 11:39.7 3000 26 161 01:56.6 (1.58.8)
2.5k - 09:40.5 2500 26 162 01:56.1 (1.57.7) Was showing 1.54 average at 1k to go & had to slow down a bit [-X .
2k - 07:41.3 2000 29 164 01:55.3 (1.56.6)
Tot - 29:01.5 7500 26 162 01:56.1
CD - 2k
A very nice 1.7sec improvement lower spm & same HR, a hard session as faster than my last 4x2k & 5x1500!!! :shock: Pacing not great as R2 started way too fast. [-X Something long & a bit slower tommorow.
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Re: The Pete Plan

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Decided on another 60min wolverine session. Last time did 176/180/176/180/176/180 this time after a slight mishap did 176/180/184/176/184/180.
wup - 1k
Time Dist SPM HR Split
10:00.0 2337 (+31) 18 138 02:08.3
20:00.0 2350 (+27) 18 153 02:07.6
30:00.0 2356 (+17) 19 157 02:07.3 - too many strokes
40:00.0 2336 (+30 18 151 02:08.4
50:00.0 2358 (+19) 19 159 02:07.2 - again!!!
01:00:00 2357 (+34) 18 160 02:07.2
Total 14093 18 153 02:07.7
CD - 2k
Last time was 2.08.9/13963m. Increas of 130m & 1.2 sec improvement on split. HR much higher but very hot today!!!! Good session.
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Re: The Pete Plan

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Nice Waterfall Spidermac and impressive L4 (although IU recall Mike saying being above target is as bad as below, but Pete would not have agreed!). Fred, I started my post before yours, great session predicting that you are capable of sub-7' when you are feeling brave!

Hard hour for me. Little while since I did anything that long, so preparation for HM on Solstice day. target >14050M for a Green Meta score, hoping to break Post 2012 best of 14,097m.

Time Distn Rate Pace
10:00 2,353 23 02:07.5 - Started a bit fast
10:00 2,347 22 02:07.8 - already feeling the faster than usual hr LSD in my legs!
10:00 2,347 23 02:07.8 - not comfortable but good rhythm
10:00 2,348 23 02:07.8 - working hard, but down hill now
10:00 2,352 23 02:07.6 - 45' in seems achievable and hence easier
10:00 2,421 25 02:03.9 - why didn't I have this energy 20' earlier?
1:00 14,168 23.2 2:07.0 - Post 2012 best by 70m :D
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Re: The Pete Plan

Post by fkoene »

Iain wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:24 pm Fred, I started my post before yours, great session predicting that you are capable of sub-7' when you are feeling brave!
I've rowed for quite some years now, never sub-7, don't think I will ever reach that...
A tough hour for you, but a very steady pace and great you managed to get that green meta-nonathlon score.
Yesterday I rowed a slow 40 minutes, 2:03.1 pace, today a 5K, bit short perhaps for a hard distance, but had a very low nonathlon score so wanted to get some more points overthere. Managed to do 19:15.6, a 1:55.5 pace. Almost 90 points more in the nonathlon there. Still not green I think but the season has only just begun. Also less then my nonathlon 6K pace so room for improvement.
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Re: The Pete Plan

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fkoene wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:20 pmI've rowed for quite some years now, never sub-7, don't think I will ever reach that...
A tough hour for you, but a very steady pace and great you managed to get that green meta-nonathlon score.
Yesterday I rowed a slow 40 minutes, 2:03.1 pace, today a 5K, bit short perhaps for a hard distance, but had a very low nonathlon score so wanted to get some more points overthere. Managed to do 19:15.6, a 1:55.5 pace. Almost 90 points more in the nonathlon there. Still not green I think but the season has only just begun. Also less then my nonathlon 6K pace so room for improvement.
2k is really hard to achieve your potential, but unless you used excessive rate to get that pyramid score, you are capable physically, "just" need to embrass the pain and have the drive to keep going! That said, I haven't done an all out 2k in several years, rather grow feathers than face the pain for what I know would be a mediocre time!

You do know that you are allowed to enter a time of the pace achieved for any longer row in the Nonathlon? So you can use that 6k pace and add a few Nonathlon points. Pete uses the 3rd session for anything different, so a 5k is perfetly acceptable. Personally I think it is second only to the 2k to achieve your best. I haven't done one of them for 2 years! Unfortunately will run out of other soft times to improve my Nonathlon with only 500 and 30 min unattempted so far this season.

- Iain
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Re: The Pete Plan

Post by fkoene »

Knowing the agony it causes I find it hard to start a 2K with the intention to go anywhere below 7:10. A 5 or 6K suits me much better.
I know I can use the pace of my faster 6K for my 5K but I prefer to use the time I actually rowed. My 10K is also much faster then my 30 minutes pace. Should be different by the end of the season.
Today a slow 10K, 41:12.7
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Re: The Pete Plan

Post by Iain »

Fair enough. For Solstice HM. Recent best set on a rate pyramid at 2:10.3 average. Sooner than I would have liked after an all out hour, but the solstice date is fixed, shoulders stiff, but legs felt fine, reduced DF to 110 from 115. Targetted keeping all splits sub 2:10 and sub 1:31 overall for top 50% in category in C2 rankings:


Time Distnce Rate Pace
08:33.3 2,000 23 02:08.3 - Quicker start than intended, may pay for that
08:35.1 2,000 23 02:08.8 - 2:09 groove so stuck with it
08:36.4 2,000 23 02:09.1 - Starting to feel it
08:35.8 2,000 23 02:08.9 - Having to push already
08:35.5 2,000 23 02:08.9 - Good to approach halfway
08:37.3 2,000 23 02:09.3 - Couldn't maintain 2:09s
08:38.8 2,000 23 02:09.7 - Not deteriorating much
08:38.8 2,000 22 02:09.7 - Struggling to keep rate and pace up, seeing 2:11s
08:39.4 2,000 23 02:09.9 - fighting demons
08:38.5 2,000 23 02:09.6 - tough first half, 2:10.2 avg, then boost of seeing finish
04:32.4 1,097 26 02:04.2 - uneven first half, but speeded up well at end
1:30:41.3 21097 23.1 2:09.0 - New Post 2012 PB and 10 Nonathlon points. Unlikely to repeat any time soon!
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Re: The Pete Plan

Post by spidermac »

Well done Iain not surprised u are not keen gor another HM. Today was supposed to be 8x500m but legs felt tired at start, HD in R2. So decided on HR cap row to get something done. Been reading up a bit & my UT2 cap should be 130 so stuck with that.
Wup - 3k
Time DIst SPM HR Split
10:00.0 2057 17 127 02:25.8
20:00.0 2074 17 127 02:24.6
30:00.0 2117 16 129 02:21.7
40:00.0 2135 16 130 02:20.5
40:00.0 8384 16 128 02:23.1
CD - 2k
Not sure if better to up spm will try that next time.
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Re: The Pete Plan

Post by Iain »

Sensible move Spidermac, too often I have stayed with an intense session to crash 75% through and be disappointed and tired! The right pace to do LSDs at is difficult. PP was designed by a fit 30's person shorter than you with only an hour for lunch and exercise. I am sure that this influenced the 22+ SPM UT1 prescription. Since my return to rowing in my 50s, true 40+ min UT1 sessions do tire me. That is fine when targets aren't too challenging, but once most intervals feel hard, I ned extra rest days or to drop the intensity. Some >70 rowers take a day off before every tough session, turning the 3 week cycle (with 1 rest day per week) into 4 weeks. Am I right in thinking that the "recovery" from LSDs is aimed at the heart? Or should it also allow muscle stiffness to subside? I definitely have to increase stroke rate at the same pace the day after low rate LSDs, which limits he paces I can endure. If training is consistent I guess it doesn't matter if the targets are a little lower (especially if not training for competitions), but personally life gets in the way of training sometimes so the rest days vary so being slowed will mean achieving paces I cannot later match.

Each to their own!

- Iain
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Re: The Pete Plan

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Hi Iain think I am right saying UT1 is more intense than UT2 ( not by much) but UT1 is the higher end of aerobic work up to 80% MHR. I want to still do some long TT`s but think I need to do more UT2`s as my long rows. Currently rowing 2 days out out of 4 after some climbing training. Over on Concept 2 site a few folk saying that when they reduced the HR cap from 140 to 130 they went faster!! Idea is u get the same aerobic benefits for less energy expenditure - an important factor for folk our age. My big problem is holding back but HRcap does the job. Yes I believe the idea is to work the cardio vascular system not the legs. Numerous enduro sports emphasize the importance of a good aerobic base to support a good anerobic capacity. Re spm on the long sessions I like to use them to build some leg strength hence the excess metres on wolverine sessions.
Still experimenting, but when they eventually let us out to play in Scotland will probably try a few months of only UT2.
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Re: The Pete Plan

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After HD on 8x500 wanted to do something sprinty - 10x1min.1min rest. Decided to try Eric murray protocol on this - start pretty fast & try to go a bit faster each rep but difference between first & last reps should not be that great so all reps pretty close to max!!!
Wup - 3.5k
Time Dist SPm HR Split Prev
01:00.0 282 34 158 01:46.3 (1.47.1)
01:00.0 284 32 161 01:45.6 (1.48.3)
01:00.0 286 32 148 01:44.8 (1.46.0)
01:00.0 289 32 145 01:43.8 (1.45.2)
01:00.0 289 33 157 01:43.8 (1.44.5)
01:00.0 291 33 153 01:43.0 (1.44.1)
01:00.0 293 34 156 01:42.3 (1.43.4)
01:00.0 294 35 152 01:42.0 (1.42.7) - spm creeping up
01:00.0 295 39 163 01:41.6 (1.42.0) - spm way too hi :shock:
01:00.0 288 38 000 01:44.1 (1.40.3) - the inevitable blow up!!! :evil:
10:00.0 2891 34 154 01:43.7 (1.44.3)
CD - 2k
Comment - felt much harder way to do this wout as every rep is pretty tuff. Blowing up on the last rep really upped the average. Legs destroyrd at the end. HR strap slipped off on last rep. No screw up on R2 this time. :D
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Re: The Pete Plan

Post by Iain »

Spidermac, nice session. You must have really pushed rep 9! Impressed tat you kept a relatively modest rating for the first 6. Once entered a "beep test" "race" at Basingstoke of 1' on, 1' off with pace increased generally 2S/500M every rep. On penultimate rep (target 1:42.9), legs went hallfway through. Managed to hang on back and arms with rating average of 45. For the next (1:40.9 target), virtually done without legs after first few srokes, averaged 54SPM and managed 1:41.7. Probably not a good idea for training (although it had no long term effect on me, I didn't perform well in the 100M a couple of hours later), but reflects how I have to finish an all out min. I am amazed at your 27/5 500M where you managed over 50SPM at the end, with higher ratings on the 8x500 done 24/5. Have you changed your technique, or is it the incomplete recovery of the 1' r1' that caught you?

8x2' r2' for me this afternoon. Glad no longer in this heat!

- Iain
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Re: The Pete Plan

Post by spidermac »

Hi Iain, have changed things a bit - lowered foot stretchers & also did a workout from Dark horse rowing to find an optimal drag factor - result was I produced max watts at 130 drag & have been using 115. Also now have ERG data & started to check my stroke length. Main thing I think was last time I deliberately -ve split the session whereas this time by going harder from R1 it felt a much harder wout as every rep feels hard instead of just the last few. Also still getting used to higher DRF hence the leg failure on last rep but I think that shows the training objective was acheived. Refining stroke technique is a never ending process.
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Re: The Pete Plan

Post by Iain »

Always worth trying something different!

8x2' r2' online, concentrating on power at lower rating for first minute of each 2. Hot and humid and struggled to see monitor through steamed up glasses!

Time Distnc Rate Pace
02:00.0 513 28 01:57.0 - Felt harder than should have been
02:00.0 515 29 01:56.5 - Struggled to achieve pace at R27
02:00.0 516 28 01:56.3 - Feeling harder and breathing hard even at end of rest from here
02:00.0 517 29 01:56.1 - Dipped at start of second minute, had to push hard to neg split
02:00.0 518 29 01:55.8 - Hanging on
02:00.0 518 29 01:55.8 - Glad end is in sight
02:00.0 521 30 01:55.2 - Pushed last min
02:00.0 540 33 01:51.1 - R30 first min, full on second - perhaps should have gone faster earlier?
16:00 4,158 29.4 1:55.4
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Re: The Pete Plan

Post by Iain »

Crashed and burned today. As it is so hot, stupidly thought a 2k was the answer as preparation for the CTC. 2 Failed attempts, longer was 1k in 3:52.8 R29.2. Just couldn't maintain the rating, not helped by window blind landing on C-breeze and reducing DF from 115 to 98. SO decided to do a 7':

Time Distnc Rate Pace
01:00.0 253 27 01:58.6
01:00.0 254 27 01:58.1
01:00.0 254 27 01:58.1
01:00.0 255 28 01:57.1
01:00.0 256 27 01:57.2
01:00.0 258 28 01:56.3
01:00.0 265 30 01:53.2
07:00 1,794 27.7 1:57.0

So not a total disaster.
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