The Pete Plan etc

[strider77]

Well done Peter-I hate this session too-great improvment =D>

[plummy]

Nice session Peter!

[Grobi]

Thank you guys Another hard session for me yesterday, the 4x2k. After a long day of travelling I was feeling a bit lethargic and not too enthusisatic about this session. Target pace was 1:54.6:

1) 1:54.4 / 28spm / 168EHR -> legs felt heavy, maybe w/u not intense enough
2) 1:54.2 / 29spm / 175EHR -> didn't dare to speed up more, still 2 reps left!
3) 1:53.5 / 29spm / 182EHR -> pushed it a bit more, just 1 rep left after that one
4) 1:51.2 / 30spm / 189EHR -> this one was better, 7:24.9 for the challenge series

Total: 30:13.3_____pace: 1:53.3

After a lethargic start this session went better and better from rep to rep. Maybe my body needed to be "woken up". I wouldn't have thought of this kind of improvement again before starting the session, I wonder how long I can keep that up?

[spidermac]

Impressive sessh there Grobi especialy when not feeling in the mood. My last session before going to Chamonix for a weeks skiing so time for a speed pyramid - yaba daba doo!!! First one this year.
Wup - 3k
250m - 1.44.8/33spm/155HR
500m - 1.44.6/33spm/164HR
750m - 1.44.4/33spm/171HR
1000m - 1.44.4/34spm/174HR
750m - 1.44.3/36spm/169HR
500m - 1.42.3/39spm/164HR
250m - 1.35.2/47spm/161HR
AV - 1.43.6/36spm
CD-2k
Comments - spm a bit higher than I would like but always satisfying to be able to -ve split this session.

[billwright]

Are you doing any winter climbing whilst you're there Spider?

Bill

[spidermac]

Hi Bill,
not this time, I was there in Jan & did a bit then, but with her indoors , alpine winter climbing isn`t really her thing!!

[strider77]

Very nice 4 x 2k Peter you seem to prefer the L2 sessions to the L1 sessions like 8 x 500 and 4 x 1k

It has given me a nice new target for my next attempt-danke

Spider-very nice speed pyramid - those rates look similar to the ones I tend to use

Enjoy Chamonix

[Grobi]

Alan, let me know how you did in your 4x2k session. In the meantime I've set a new target for you , 5x1500 tonight with a target pace of 1:53.6:

1) 1:53.4 / 29spm / 172EHR
2) 1:52.6 / 29spm / 177EHR
3) 1:52.6 / 29spm / 182EHR
4) 1:52.1 / 30spm / 185EHR
5) 1:49.0 / 31spm / 190EHR

Total: 28:01.3_____pace: 1:52.0

Happy with yet another improvement of 1.6 seconds, but especially with the final rep! I managed to keep pulling 1:50.0 nearly completely throughout the first half, with the heart rate rising up to 180. On a normal day I would have backed off a bit because I know that (for me) above 185 (which I undoubtedly will see if I keep going like that) things become quite uncomfortable towards the end. But today I just ignored the heart rate and kept pulling, in fact I was still able to bring the pace down (and the heart rate up).

[Thomas W-P]

You guys are going well. It is good to do it regularly. I am rubbish at that and managed my first piece on the PP for six weeks. From the dull blog:

1st rep: I misread the target and did 1:51.8 rather than 1:51.1. After 6 weeks off, trying to correct it in the next ones seems nasty but my heart rate was very low compared to previous.

2nd rep was 1:50.8 with a harder effort all the way and a short 50m sprint. The highest that the split got to was 1:51.5 but I squeezed through the second km to bring it down. Average split is now 1:51.3, and I will try to hit that on 3rd rep to leave something for the last dig.

3rd rep was 1:50.7 so average was now 1:51.1 by my oxygen deprived calculation. Not looking forward to the last but hoping for a sub 1:50 for a new target. Pleased so far that I am still in the game. My long (failed and unreported) trying-for-an-hour-of-power must be paying off. And the cycling. Target for the last is to keep the split at 1:50 and go from 200 to go.

4th rep: 1:49.2 (7:16.9). Didn't think I would make it but toughed it out. Probably the right way to go fast. Very nasty in the last 500m but that's a 2k.

New target: 1:50.6!

Pretty pleased given the lack of speed work.

[Grobi]

Very nice set of 2ks there Thomas, well done! Sub 1:50 next time!

I had the pleasure of the waterfall yesterday evening. Warm up didn't feel too good, heart rate was about 10 bpm higher than it usually is at this stage. Anyway, I had a go at this session with a target pace of 1:53.6:

3000 / 1:53.3 / 29spm / 179EHR -> sweating heavily, high h/r already and it's just the first rep
2500 / 1:53.1 / 30spm / 189EHR -> h/d after 500m, picked it up again and brought the pace down to 1:53.1
2000 / 1:52.4 / 31spm / 192EHR -> jelly legs from the beginning, very high heart rate at the end (and legs still jelly )

Total: 28:15.4_____pace: 1:53.0

This was the hardest session I had for at least half a year I guess. To be honest I had hoped to break the 1:53 barrier but it just wasn't the day for it. I had a snack about one hour before the training, maybe that was too close? Anyway, improvement is still improvemnt, isn't it?

[strider77]

Well done Thomas-very fast last 2k =D>

Peter-I felt your pain, that looks like a really hard session, well done on completing it =D>

[Thomas W-P]

Grobi; awesome effort to hang in there like that. Well done.

[Mike Channin]

Out of interest, which of the Pete Plan sessions do you guys feel is most beneficial for 2k performance. Or 1k performance?

Asking as these sessions would potentially help anyone doing the CTC 920m or the C2C/WAARC 2k...

I had a list once, but it might be helpful if anyone has it to hand to post the pace guides for each session.

[Grobi]

The pace guides for the PP sessions are like this:

8 x 500m = 3seconds faster than 2k pb pace (2k – 3)

Speed pyramid = 2k pb pace (2k)

4 x 1000m = 1second slower than 2k pb pace (2k + 1)

5 x 1500m = 5k pb pace (5k)

4 x 2000m = Half a second slower than 5k pb pace (5k + 0.5)

3k, 2.5k, 2k = 1second slower than 5k pb pace (5k + 1)

[Mike Channin]

Cheers Peter - much appreciated.

Ended up doing a 5 x 1k/r5:00 (badly) @ 1:47.0 av (full details on my training thread)

not sure what this means yet, other than that I need to do more PP intervals to address my weaknesses!

[Stan]

I would partially agree with Peters pace assessments there, only I would add the provis0 that paces relate to your current form for 2k and 5k, not your pbs

[Grobi]

Stan, I quoted those pace guides from Pete's website. Of course your current session pace relates to your current 2k or 5k pace. If it relates to your PB paces, you know what you're up to next

[Mike Channin]

Thanks both - that was a great help.

Back to the original question - Is there any one piece that you feel has particular benefit, or one that doesn't really work for you? They all look very well thought through and constructed (and equally daunting!), but then Pete is legendary for knowing his stuff. As with everything else, I guess it will all be about the pacing.

Do any of you still use the PPL site?

[millie]

Out of interest, which of the Pete Plan sessions do you guys feel is most beneficial for 2k performance. Or 1k performance?

I can't comment yet on the 2k question, although I'm suspecting the 1000m and 1500m sessions from how I've felt after doing them (did the 1500m PP session on Monday and I'm sure it will improve my next 2k attempt ). I'm a bit more qualified to comment on the 1k / 920m question - I find the following sessions were good in the lead up to my recent 1k PB (not PP, but inspired by PP and also 'borrowed' from various places!):

-500m/400m/300m/200m/100m w 90" rest between each. Pace approx. 1k TP / TP -1 / TP-2 / TP - 3 / flat out
-4 x 350m w 3' rest @ approx 1k TP - 2
-10X1'/1' rest @ approx 1k TP+1
-600m/500m/400m @ 1k TP w 4' rest

Of all of them, I think the first and last sessions were the best for training to race the 1k
Good luck with the 920m attempt Mike!

[Grobi]

Mike, I'd recommend the short-interval-sessions for a 2k specific training:

8x500 -> good for sprint power and testing a race start (500m is a short interval, so you need to be on spot when the interval starts)
4x1k -> good for "sprint endurance" I'd call it, for me the hardest PP session of all (incl. the waterfall)
pyramid -> good for mental strength, the middle 1k is always a killer (otherwise you haven't tried hard enough )

Good luck with your training, keep us posted about your progress

[Mike Channin]

Fantastic - thanks to both Millie and Peter - this is just the kind of info I was hoping for.

That's really interesting to see how you've used adapted sessions to target the shorter 1k race, Millie. I must get round to improving my 1k, so this will be very useful. (I got to a point last year where the form was theoretically there, but didn't manage to complete the distance before going off the boil).

And thanks for your valuable insight, Peter. That helps explain why I made such a horlicks of the 5 x 1k yesterday.

One thing I do find is that shorter intervals are (relatively) easy to just tough it out, whereas the longer ones are just too long to get through by ignoring the pain 'cos it'll be over soon.

Because I've not been targeting any races this time around, I've not done any sharpening work (instead I've been targeting the long endurance stuff to improve aerobic base and because gains here always translate back to gains at shorter distances too), but these sessions appear to be exactly what is needed.

Final question, then. How often in the week do you do these sessions, and what is the usual recovery time for them? I'm guessing you wouldn't usually follow one of these with another two days later without expecting some side effects and loss of ultimate pace?

One thing I struggle for is to know what to do in the 'not-quite-so-hard' sessions that you need to space out the full-out ones with. I'm planning doing limited rate work, but that will still stress strength which these shorter interval sessions also hit.

One last thing - I've found the absolute hardest session to be a severely positively split mid to long distance - usually happens when a form jump means you can pick off a set of 'bests' in one session, provided you go out hard and hang on. It's a bit like a bumps race, where you start on a sprint and then fade gracefully (painfully!) into oblivion...

I'll try to keep posting the details of my training on my training thread, so you can see how it goes. Thanks for your advice, interest and support

[Grobi]

Mike,

Final question, then. How often in the week do you do these sessions, and what is the usual recovery time for them? I'm guessing you wouldn't usually follow one of these with another two days later without expecting some side effects and loss of ultimate pace?

I usually do two interval sessions per week, just like the PP says. However, if I'm training for a certain race and am surprised that it's only six weeks ahaed from now I ususally sharpen it up by doing an interval session every second day. The type of sessions depends on the type of race. For a 2k race I'd do the sprint intervals only, for a 5k or 30min race I'd do the endurance intervals. I skip the hard distance work then and do very slow recovery rows (or don't row at all if the body needs it) in the days between. Of course you shouldn't (and can't anyway) do this type of training for too long. You bring down your target pace very quickly (that's the aim of this type of training because you want to be quick on race day), but it also means that the PP gets very hard very soon.

One thing I struggle for is to know what to do in the 'not-quite-so-hard' sessions that you need to space out the full-out ones with. I'm planning doing limited rate work, but that will still stress strength which these shorter interval sessions also hit.

PM recommends a pace of at least 10seconds slower than the endurance intervals. I usualls row even slower than that.

Currently I'm following the endurance intervals of the PP. The reason is that after my 30min race four weeks ago I felt that I wasn't in top form then but could get closer to or even beat my 30min PB if I continued my preparation for that race just a bit longer. Therefore my current focus is on long/middle distance work.

So it was time for the 4x2k yesterday with a target pace of 1:53.3. I had done a very hard waterfall on monday which didn't feel good at all. So I wasn't sure what to expect from the similarly hard 4x2k. That's how it went:

1) 1:53.1 / 29 / 173EHR
2) 1:52.8 / 29 / -
3) 1:52.4 / 29 / -
4) 1:50.5 / 30 / -

Total: 29:55.7_____pace: 1:52.2

Finally below the 30min barrier! Although the $%&#* heart rate belt died after the first rep and I therefore have no data for the other intervals I'd say this session felt much more controlled than monday's waterfall. I kept my powder dry for the first three reps and pushed it in the final one. It was hard and sweaty but in contrast to monday there wasn't a single moment when I doubted finishing the session.

[millie]

Final question, then. How often in the week do you do these sessions, and what is the usual recovery time for them? I'm guessing you wouldn't usually follow one of these with another two days later without expecting some side effects and loss of ultimate pace?

For the shorter speed sessions I actually find I recover pretty quickly - mind you, the 'effort' distance is in total only around 1500m so whilst it is fast, there is not a lot to it. When I was training for the 1k erg test I sometimes did sessions with only a couple of days between them and was fine. I find I feel a lot more tired in the legs after a traditional PP session - not surprising I guess given the effort distance is around 4k - 6k or so, even if at a lower intensity.

I find for me doing 5 days of training with 2 rest days works well and gives me enough time to recover:
Monday - erg session, usually 500m, 1k or 1.5k PP session or one of my 1k sessions
Tuesday - 1.5 hr OTW session, some distance, some speed work but not as much as the erg sessions
Wed - off (or some stretching / core work)
Thursday - 1.5 hr OTW session as per Tuesday
Friday - erg session, per Monday although last couple of weeks have been when I've done a 2k TT
Saturday - off
Sunday - shortish OTW session (45-60 mins), followed by e.g. 30r20 on the erg

I have no idea if this is a good schedule in terms of recovery, range of sessions etc - open to comments!!

I think doing the mix of OTW and OTE helps with recovery as the OTW sessions are more technically focussed and cover around 15k, if we do intervals there usually aren't a lot of them.

From experience, I've actually found that aching legs don't seem to have too much effect on overall pace - sometimes I'll start a session wondering if I'll be able to do it and find I'm fine even though legs feel a bit heavy. For me I think it's about keeping hydrated (I weigh myself before and after a session to work out how much I have to drink) and make sure I eat well after a workout - since I've been thinking more about food / drink I've found my recovery has improved.

[Thomas W-P]

My view on Mike's questions.

I find the 1k and 2k best. 2k racing is in the head. It is nice to know that you can get to 1k at race speed regularly. It is nice to know you can do race speed plus X for 2k after 3 reps. I find that enormously beneficial.

I made outstanding progress on the pp when I did a pp session every other day with a steady 10k at UT2 or 1 inbetween and one rest day.

[millie]

Well I think I can call this a PP session, even though a) the rest wasn't the same and b) I didn't finish it all

Had an OTW regatta yesterday, absolutely terrible conditions (I was sure they were going to cancel it, they 'reviewed' the situation a number of times but decided to keep going, apparently 3 or 4 people capsized!), so I ached a lot this morning from the 3 races (which I won all 3 ) and from trying to fight against massive head wind and choppy water.

Rather than a nice easy recovery erg session this morning I decided to do 8x500m w 90" rest @ approx 2k pace. I knew I was going to blow up at some point, but wanted to do as many intervals as I could first!

1. 1:52.0 @ 32 - was aiming for 1:53 but felt okay - so went with it!
2. 1:51.8 @ 31
3. 1:51.6 @ 32
4. 1:51.2 @ 33 - legs feeling pretty stuffed now, hoping to make it to 6!
5. 1:51.4 @ 33
6. 1:53.6 @ 32 - blew up about 200m in, pace just slipped away, nothing left, around 1:55 for the rest of it... still at least did 6!
Average 1:51.9 @ 32

Of course I could have been a bit more sensible about the pacing and gone a bit slower and completed all 8 (or had more rest) but a) I didn't have much time this morning so wouldn't have fitted in the usual 3:30 PP rest anyway and b) strangely (and I could be completely wrong) but I didn't think going a bit faster or slower would make much difference - I knew my legs wouldn't handle the 8 so I may as well try and do them fast!