Strength training(on and off the erg)

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Kevinhorne44
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by Kevinhorne44 »

Great week on the erg Paul 😎 HM to boot πŸ’ͺ
I'm going to ease myself into this schedule over the next couple of weeks. It might need some tweaks before I start in March.
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by paulgould »

Kevinhorne44 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:26 pm Great week on the erg Paul 😎 HM to boot πŸ’ͺ
I'm going to ease myself into this schedule over the next couple of weeks. It might need some tweaks before I start in March.
Let me know how you are getting on with this - it looks like quite an intense program you have set out.
I have had a few more decent sessions since my HM, and even had a rest day Monday :roll: :roll: .
Did a 12km Sunday, 2 x 10km yesterday, and a very gentle 10km this morning.

Something I have noticed, and maybe Iain may have some thoughts on this - I am finding that at a high DF a change in SPM has a marked effect, much more so than at a lower DF - I recorded 2 12km sessions 2 days apart on DF 250 with the same RPE.
The first one, at 18spm, was over a minute slower than the second one, done at 19spm - quite a difference.
I am thinking that this is mainly due to the greater deceleration of the flywheel at high DF, but may also be partly to do with me being short(1,74m) and not really able to produce a long, fluid stroke at 18spm and lower - in order to keep at 18spm I suspect I have a slight pause before the recovery, which itself is slightly shorter than that of a tall rower.
Now that I am really comfortable on the higher DF, I am starting to experiment with the spm, to establish a safe limit to row at.
I am finding that my HR is strongly related to the spm, and I need to keep the HR relatively low - I checked my recovery HR over the 2 12km rows and recorded 78bpm and 72bpm a minute after completion, which indicates to me that I am rowing well within my limits.

Paul G
55, 1.74m , Sep '20 - 114 kg , currently - 88 kg
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200m - 30.8
300m - 47.7
30r20 - 7754m
12 hr - 139300m
100 mile - 14:10.12
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by Iain »

Paul. glad your training is going so well. As someone only slightly taller than you (especially if you ignore my longer neck that does nothing for erging!), with equally short legs. I can comfortably row at R15 without any pause at 115DF. At higher DF the power stroke is longer (at 250 the average speed will be 23% slower, I know much of that will be due to the substantial reduction in the recovery, but there will be a significant reduction at the start of the drive and some throughout.) and so the recovery will be shorter at the same rating, so it should be easier to maintain a slow enough recovery for a lower rating. The issue may well be that the higher the DF, the slower the flywheel at the catch. This changes the nature of the drive as there is little movement for a significant force at the start of the drive, while the increased drag also means that a higher "work rate" (ie power) must be maintained throughout the drive to maintain an acceleration (as this must first overcome the power dissipated by the fan which is proportional to DF), hence greater work by the latter elements (upper body). As recovery time increases, all of these effects are increased. You may only be talking about 1SPM, but if your drive were say 1S, you are talking about an 8% increase in recovery time, so a considerable effect.

That said, running some numbers, if I assume that you did the R18 at 2:20 pace (56mins), the R19 in 55mins happens to require exactly the same SPI to accomplish. So it may just mean that you are actually limited by the work that you can maintain during each stroke. It might appear superficially easier to do R18 at a closer pace, but you cannot do anything for the extra 8% of the time and so you cannot make up for the drop in number of strokes! The fact that you recover so fast means that you are limited by your muscles not CV system (presumably plenty of time to produce the energy required in the recoveries!).

HTH

- Iain
52 year old Lwt (in ability and weight) trying to develop a technique that doesn't cause hysterics and start rowing regularly now I am working again.
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by paulgould »

Iain wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:15 pm Paul. glad your training is going so well. As someone only slightly taller than you (especially if you ignore my longer neck that does nothing for erging!), with equally short legs. I can comfortably row at R15 without any pause at 115DF. At higher DF the power stroke is longer (at 250 the average speed will be 23% slower, I know much of that will be due to the substantial reduction in the recovery, but there will be a significant reduction at the start of the drive and some throughout.) and so the recovery will be shorter at the same rating, so it should be easier to maintain a slow enough recovery for a lower rating. The issue may well be that the higher the DF, the slower the flywheel at the catch. This changes the nature of the drive as there is little movement for a significant force at the start of the drive, while the increased drag also means that a higher "work rate" (ie power) must be maintained throughout the drive to maintain an acceleration (as this must first overcome the power dissipated by the fan which is proportional to DF), hence greater work by the latter elements (upper body). As recovery time increases, all of these effects are increased. You may only be talking about 1SPM, but if your drive were say 1S, you are talking about an 8% increase in recovery time, so a considerable effect.

That said, running some numbers, if I assume that you did the R18 at 2:20 pace (56mins), the R19 in 55mins happens to require exactly the same SPI to accomplish. So it may just mean that you are actually limited by the work that you can maintain during each stroke. It might appear superficially easier to do R18 at a closer pace, but you cannot do anything for the extra 8% of the time and so you cannot make up for the drop in number of strokes! The fact that you recover so fast means that you are limited by your muscles not CV system (presumably plenty of time to produce the energy required in the recoveries!).

HTH

- Iain
Thanks for the excellent explanation Iain - it makes sense what you are saying.
I haven't looked at the force curve, but I am pretty certain that I don't have a "left-leaning haystack" and that I apply a good deal of the force in the back end of the stroke with the upper body.
The 2 comparison pieces were rowed at a low-ish RPE so I can definitely put in more work each stroke - ( BTW your numbers you ran were quite close to the actual :) - it was 54:30 for the R18 and 53:30 for the R19).
I can feel that I am definitely getting stronger(even if not necessarily aerobically fitter), but at this stage am still very wary about pushing too hard.
Back 8 or 9 years ago when I was at my strongest and setting most of my PB's, my training sweet spot was at R24 on a DF of 250 or 300 where I was able to comfortably maintain a 2:00 - 2:05 pace for an hour or more.
I doubt if I will ever get anywhere near to that level again but will be happy to keep improving at my present rate for a while still, and I suspect that my new "sweet spot" will be at 21-22spm, which shouldn't over-stress my CV system.

Just as an aside - while I don't consider myself very aerobically fit, it was a pleasant surprise to be told by the Cardiac Failure clinic that it was very difficult for them to get the right level of Beta-blocking.Their SOP is to prescribe the maximum dosage to patients so as to lower the resting HR and blood pressure thus easing the workload placed on the heart. They told me that because I was so fit :shock: :shock: I had a naturally low resting HR and the dosage of BB's was too high, dropping my resting HR too low and increasing the likelihood of my device having to act as a pacemaker to get my HR back up - they would far rather that I rely on the heart's natural pacemaker(the SA node) to do the pacemaking duties (the lower limit on my device is set to 40bpm)
All of this has resulted in the change in medication(a new, less powerful BB) and I have been feeling so much more energised as a result.

Paul G
55, 1.74m , Sep '20 - 114 kg , currently - 88 kg
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200m - 30.8
300m - 47.7
30r20 - 7754m
12 hr - 139300m
100 mile - 14:10.12
200km - 18:28.30
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by Iain »

Great news from your cardiac specialist. Interesting figures (to a geek like me). I have recorded RHR in the low 30s overnight! I don't think the medical profession fully understands the impact of fitness or at least hasn't thought through the consequences on treatments. I had confirmed "Athletic Heart Syndrome" a little before my 24 hour. This is a non-event, basically it throws up spurious results. It can mean dizziness when I get up too quickly and increased arrhythmia, but it hasn't been linked to any serious issues despite spooking them on tests! I would have bristled at "naturally low RHR", there is nothing natural about spending the hours you do manually powering a fan! I guess that they are used to seeing couch potatoes and they are the people they study as the most at risk. Any money for studying those of us trying to stay fit goes on training studies NOT basic health!

As for where you are going, at 22SPM and a modest improvement in your work per stroke you would be at 2:06, so not too far away from your old self!

Best wishes

- Iain

PS re your comment on RPE, I should have said that the effort (ie "perceived exertion") is putting a given amount of work into each stroke. The increased effort of pulling yourself up the slide 8% quicker (using largely unstressed muscles) and doing a few more strokes is not very noticeable as it is not taxing your available oxygen or pushing you to levels where metabolic by products accumulate. As such the RPE will largely be dependent on work per stroke NOT pace.
52 year old Lwt (in ability and weight) trying to develop a technique that doesn't cause hysterics and start rowing regularly now I am working again.
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by paulgould »

Hi Iain
Thanks once again for your thoughts - I totally agree with you that RPE is all about work per stroke.
On my last 3 sessions, WED PM, THURS AM, FRI AM( all 10k at df 250) I have looked to dial down the RPE and up the rate to get used to rating higher(all the way up to the dizzying heights of 20spm :) :) ) .

Interesting , those symptoms of your "Athletic Heart Syndrome"- I have been more frequently experiencing dizziness on standing too quickly, and suspect I may be getting fitter and as a consequence my RHR is lowering again( I am walking and erging just about every day and I have shed a fair bit of weight).
At my last checkup on New Years Eve my RHR was 51 with my BP normal, both readings that the cardiologist was happy with - I suspect it has lowered slightly since then and I think I may be due a further reduction in my BB dosage.
On paper, an RHR in the 40's at my age would indicate pretty good fitness, but with my heart inefficiency my stroke volume is somewhat reduced, and at such a slow heart rate may well mean I am not getting sufficient oxygen transported.

Don't know if the above makes sense, but that's my rather unscientific interpretation of what is happening.
On the positive side, I feel like I am getting stronger and healthier and really enjoying the erging(however non-competitive it is ).
Also planning to get back on the bike when it's warmer, and throw in a few pool sessions here and there - I would be very interested to see if I am swimming better when I have 45lbs less blubber to haul through the water :lol: :lol:

Cheers
Paul
55, 1.74m , Sep '20 - 114 kg , currently - 88 kg
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200m - 30.8
300m - 47.7
30r20 - 7754m
12 hr - 139300m
100 mile - 14:10.12
200km - 18:28.30
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by Kevinhorne44 »

Hi Paul.
Just out of interest. Have you recently had a covid vaccine?? Lorraine has been having exactly the same symptoms. She went to see her cardiologist this week to talk about it. She is arranging some more tests.
Lorraine is 58kg & RHR 46.

Back on topic now.
I'm getting use to this static bike riding malarkey 😳 45-60 minutes @70% feels very odd not munching the metres on the erg.
But the change is doing me good 😎 my interval this week was the ctc at R20. I would like to do a 8k 30R20 before the end of the 2021πŸ‘ best this season is 7928.
The weights sessions are about right. Although 6 x 10 hanging cleans in knackering πŸ˜‚ supposedly not starting fully until March but just cant help myself.
Hopefully we will have a bike-erg & ski-erg for April. That'll give us even more variety with our workout choices.
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by paulgould »

Kevinhorne44 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:49 pm Hi Paul.
Just out of interest. Have you recently had a covid vaccine?? Lorraine has been having exactly the same symptoms. She went to see her cardiologist this week to talk about it. She is arranging some more tests.
Lorraine is 58kg & RHR 46.

Back on topic now.
I'm getting use to this static bike riding malarkey 😳 45-60 minutes @70% feels very odd not munching the metres on the erg.
But the change is doing me good 😎 my interval this week was the ctc at R20. I would like to do a 8k 30R20 before the end of the 2021πŸ‘ best this season is 7928.
The weights sessions are about right. Although 6 x 10 hanging cleans in knackering πŸ˜‚ supposedly not starting fully until March but just cant help myself.
Hopefully we will have a bike-erg & ski-erg for April. That'll give us even more variety with our workout choices.
Hi Kevin

I haven't had the vaccine - expecting a call-up fairly soon as a 50+ with a medical condition.
My wife had hers a few weeks ago - as she works on board the ferry she is deemed as a key worker - she felt mildly unwell for a day or two but nothing serious

Looks like you have your training in a pretty good place at the moment - had to look up what a hang clean was - looks tough.
Very envious of you getting a ski-erg - it is something I really want to try but the generally accepted advice with having an ICD is no overhead lifting pulling the clavicle down in case the lead gets dislodged/detached.
Very strong 30R20 - way faster than I have ever managed - I am hoping for a 7k 30R20 on DF 250 before the end of the season in April which I should be able to manage at my current rate of progress, but an 8k 30R20 is something that I can only dream of.
I did a 420kg deadlift yesterday( but in 12 instalments :D ) - doing set of 12-15 with 35kg every other day and started doing planks to strengthen my core.

Had a really nice session this morning - at a low RPE(for the first 10km anyway) I did a 15km on DF 250 at r18 on 2:16.0 pace - negative split all the way but did fatigue a bit in the last 3km and upped the RPE in order to stay on track.

Paul G
55, 1.74m , Sep '20 - 114 kg , currently - 88 kg
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200m - 30.8
300m - 47.7
30r20 - 7754m
12 hr - 139300m
100 mile - 14:10.12
200km - 18:28.30
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by Kevinhorne44 »

The 420kg Deadlift made me chuckle πŸ™‚ amazed that you haven't had the jab yet 😳 especially with your heart condition.
I'm going to be Pfizer'd next Saturday the 28th.
I'm really looking forward to the bike-erg so I can log my metres on πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚ 20k every time I get on adds up for the team !!

Your training is looking solid too 😎 its amazing how the erg does reward you for regular appearances πŸ™‚ some days are harder than others. But something is always better than nothing πŸ‘
Great to hear that your lifting some weights too πŸ’ͺ
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by paulgould »

Kevinhorne44 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:53 pm The 420kg Deadlift made me chuckle πŸ™‚ amazed that you haven't had the jab yet 😳 especially with your heart condition.
I'm going to be Pfizer'd next Saturday the 28th.
I'm really looking forward to the bike-erg so I can log my metres on πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚ 20k every time I get on adds up for the team !!

Your training is looking solid too 😎 its amazing how the erg does reward you for regular appearances πŸ™‚ some days are harder than others. But something is always better than nothing πŸ‘
Great to hear that your lifting some weights too πŸ’ͺ
Agreed - once you have established the habit though it is very difficult to miss even a day, and when you do you somehow feel guilty!!
I'm sure you will have fun on the bike-erg once youget - out of interest sake how is it rated against the wattbike?
I may be back on the bike Tuesday - as I am not allowed to drive until late April, and my wife is gluten and wheat intolerant so can't eat KFC, I might have to make my own way there - about 24km round trip(should burn off half a piece of chicken or so :D ).
Was reading back through previous posts on this thread and topic and realised I didn't answer a question you posed earlier - whether one or two 6-8 week conditioning programs off the erg done at the time when I was setting my PB's would have lowered the times further - I think it may have done so for the 2 shorter distances where I PB'ed - the 1km and 1 mile where the extra raw power may have helped.
All the other PB's were set at 5k and above and I believe the training on the erg would have been more beneficial than off the erg training - it's hard to say for certain but that is my gut feel.

On to today's training - did my longest piece since Oct 2015 a few hours ago.
25k at DF 251 @ 19.6spm - Time was 1:54.41(2:17 pace) - started out at a really low RPE and tried to negative split- fatigue set in a bit with about 10km to go so had to up the RPE and SPM(up to 20 from 19) to just about maintain the negative split.
Overall reasonably tired but not disappointed with the effort - things are definitely still moving in the right direction.

Paul G
55, 1.74m , Sep '20 - 114 kg , currently - 88 kg
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200m - 30.8
300m - 47.7
30r20 - 7754m
12 hr - 139300m
100 mile - 14:10.12
200km - 18:28.30
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by paulgould »

Back is on the mend - slower than I was hoping though - got back on the rower for a very gentle re-introduction - set the damper on 0 - 105 df - tried 2 strokes and nearly flew off the back of the machine :shock: :shock: :shock:
- time for Plan B:
Put the df up to 170 and did 15 mins @ 17 spm - kept it very sedate(2:28 pace) - could feel my back was still tight but it seemed to do more good than harm.
Will do a few more easy sessions like this to keep ticking over - I'm not the sort of person to overdo it :lol: :lol: .

Update : Fri - done 2 sessions today and back is well on the mend :
Session 1 - 5km @ 17.8spm DF 225 2:22ave
Session 2 - 30min @18.0spm DF 250 6737m(2:13 ave)

Paul G
55, 1.74m , Sep '20 - 114 kg , currently - 88 kg
Image
200m - 30.8
300m - 47.7
30r20 - 7754m
12 hr - 139300m
100 mile - 14:10.12
200km - 18:28.30
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by Kevinhorne44 »

Internet back on 😎

So glad your back is on the mend Paul. Multitasking while dead lifting 😳😳 what were you thinking πŸ˜‚
2 good sessions under your belt though.
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by paulgould »

Kevinhorne44 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:08 pm Internet back on 😎

So glad your back is on the mend Paul. Multitasking while dead lifting 😳😳 what were you thinking πŸ˜‚
2 good sessions under your belt though.
Thought I would be a modern man-get in touch with my feminine side and try multi-tasking- bad idea as it turned out - not only did I twist my back deadlifting, but I also forgot how to park the car and operate the TV remoteπŸ˜€πŸ˜€
Anyway the back is fine now - did a 10k r18 this morning at 2:15 pace - quicker and a lower spm than last week

Paul G
55, 1.74m , Sep '20 - 114 kg , currently - 88 kg
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200m - 30.8
300m - 47.7
30r20 - 7754m
12 hr - 139300m
100 mile - 14:10.12
200km - 18:28.30
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by paulgould »

Had quite a good week making some steady progress - my back is fine, done over 90km, predominantly on a higher DF (300ish).
I've been doing two shorter sessions most days (5-8km per session) while I get used to the higher DF. Am finding 18 spm significantly more difficult than 19 or 20 at DF 300, whereas I was quite comfortable on 17-18 spm on DF 250.
This morning I did a 10km on DF 310 where I rated at 19.2 spm and it was by far the most comfortable session so far - I'm planning to do a 30R20 before the end of the season to compare against my current SB.
Also planning to get back on the bike as we are getting more daylight hours and it warms up - back in 2012 in my PB days I was doing a lot of cycling which must have significantly strengthened my legs at the time, so I'm hoping for the same outcome this time(not too likely, but it won't stop me trying :lol: :lol: )

Paul G
55, 1.74m , Sep '20 - 114 kg , currently - 88 kg
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200m - 30.8
300m - 47.7
30r20 - 7754m
12 hr - 139300m
100 mile - 14:10.12
200km - 18:28.30
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by paulgould »

More steady progress - done all my sessions up to today on 300df - getting very comfortable on there with a stroke rate between 18.6 and 20 - did a 30R20 yesterday and covered 7122m, not too far short of my 7161m SB, and a great deal easier.
Today I did 2 sessions of 5k on df 350 - quite comfortable at 20spm with the second one a bit quicker at 2:10 pace - 20 spm feels about right , I was finding any lower than that was "hauling anchor" a bit :oops: :oops:
My HR is still staying pretty low and I am not stressing my CV system at all, which is the aim of my approach.

Paul G
55, 1.74m , Sep '20 - 114 kg , currently - 88 kg
Image
200m - 30.8
300m - 47.7
30r20 - 7754m
12 hr - 139300m
100 mile - 14:10.12
200km - 18:28.30
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by Wolfmiester »

All sounds very encouraging Paul 😎πŸ’ͺ🏼
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by paulgould »

Wolfmiester wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:23 pm All sounds very encouraging Paul 😎πŸ’ͺ🏼
Thanks Wolfe
This time exactly a year ago I was in an induced coma not expected to wake up(cue the violins πŸŽ»πŸ˜€πŸ˜€) so very happy to be rowing again and making steady progress- this weekend I have done a 60R20 - 13825m at Df300 and a 10k at R20 in 44:17.0 , on DF 350

Paul G
55, 1.74m , Sep '20 - 114 kg , currently - 88 kg
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200m - 30.8
300m - 47.7
30r20 - 7754m
12 hr - 139300m
100 mile - 14:10.12
200km - 18:28.30
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by duffyoz »

Interesting discussion gentlemen. My Ex Phys program 6 weeks post surgery was simple movements for most body parts, no weights. The last 2 weeks (week 9 and 10) have been as below, slowly adding weight to RDL, hip thrusts, BOR. With warm up and core exercises this takes 45 to 50 min. I do now have a bench, a series of changeable dumbells and a 1/2 power rack which is very nice and keeps all the weight plates off the floor. An all over body plan which is just what I need for rowing - everything. I am now back row or bike in the am (~ 40 to 60 min) and below in the pm. I aim for 12 sessions total a week but usually end up about 10. Apparently old buggers like me need a rest day every week - sigh. I rarely if ever mix rowing and weights - no particular reason for that - just the way it developed.

Warm up (2 x 10)
glut bridges
straight leg hip ext (glute bridge with a straight leg on the bench the other in the air)
Clam

4 x 10 = choose 2 groups, below every work out day (3 days a week)
Single arm row - with kick back
reverse flies
Lunge with parloff
RDL

Bench squats
step ups
BOR
A pull - lean forward and pull straight arms down to side

supported Low squat
banded pull apart
bench hip thrust
pendulum

Skull crusher - shoulders on bench, hips not
fitball hamstring curls
Pistol squats
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by Wolfmiester »

Blimey Leslie, that’s pretty hard core. Puts me to shame for sure.
Regarding rest days and combined sessions, nearly everyone will agree it’s not good to mix resistance training and cardio in the same session. So you are naturally doing that correctly.
Also, everyone, including elite athletes (which you are in your age bracket 😎) should have a rest day in the week.
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by duffyoz »

Rest days are necessary but soooo boring. I tried to wrangle if I row in the AM and do nothing else for 24h then that is a rest day but he said no :). I try to do intended foam rolling, extra stretching and mobility work on a rest day - gives me something to do. And bonus 2 hours a day since I am mostly working from home, now used for all these goings on.

Note his prescribed number of strength sessions is 3 per week at the moment. He knows I will do more so at the moment it is at least 4 but often 5.

Also note it is only , pick 2 groups, so not all of the listed exercises, in any one session. I love it and really enjoy working with him. I decided to see a dietician as well to see if I could get more bang for my buck so to speak. Having lost a total of 38kg in the last 2 years a rearrangement of the proportions rather than a change in number on the scale would be good, ie lose fat and gain back the muscle I lost since surgery at christmas. The dietician is an ex competitive rower, nice, and hopefully has worked a way to fuel training needs, muscle needs and lose fat. Time will tell.
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Iain
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by Iain »

I thought the holy grail of losing fat while gaining muscle was not possible, hence why body builders do cycles of gaining and then losing. THe best that can be hoped for is that when gaining you put on more fat than muscle and then when losing you lose more fat than muscle. Congratulations on the weight loss, no wonder you were surging ahead so fast!
52 year old Lwt (in ability and weight) trying to develop a technique that doesn't cause hysterics and start rowing regularly now I am working again.
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paulgould
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by paulgould »

Iain wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:35 am I thought the holy grail of losing fat while gaining muscle was not possible, hence why body builders do cycles of gaining and then losing. THe best that can be hoped for is that when gaining you put on more fat than muscle and then when losing you lose more fat than muscle. Congratulations on the weight loss, no wonder you were surging ahead so fast!
A bobdybuilding regime and a healthy weight loss program are worlds apart - before a competition they are so weak and dehydrated from all the diuretics that they have to get someone to apply the fake tan for them :shock: :shock: .

I would have thought on a fairly simplistic level that building muscle burns off a lot of fat, and the more muscular you are the higher the calorie burn to maintain that muscle.

Regardless of the science, it is good to see you back in action Lesley, and you have done fantastically well to lose 38kg in 2 years ^O^ ^O^

Paul G
55, 1.74m , Sep '20 - 114 kg , currently - 88 kg
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200m - 30.8
300m - 47.7
30r20 - 7754m
12 hr - 139300m
100 mile - 14:10.12
200km - 18:28.30
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duffyoz
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by duffyoz »

On the surface of it you calorie surplus to build muscle and calorie deficit to lose fat. What the nutritional plan is aiming to do is support my training needs better while still being in a slight calorie deficit. Not overdoing the protein in any one go as your body can only deal with so much at a time, but ensuring protein at most meals. So in a broad sense, and remember I row/bike/ski most mornings fasted and try and strength program in the early evening, the meals look like this
Breakfast: 40g oats + protein powder + handful of berries + tsp chia seeds
Breakfast no training: 30g oats + berries + protein powder + tsp chia seeds OR 2 eggs + 1 piece wholegrain toast
~ 10am: boiled egg + fruit OR high protein yoghurt + fruit OR 2 corn thins + tin tuna
Lunch: 100g raw lean meat + 2 cups vegetables/salad + 30g carbs (1 wholemeal wrap or cooked rice)
pre-training - handful sultanas OR piece fruit OR piece toast + honey
Dinner: 100g raw lean meat + 1/3 to 1/2 cup cooked basmati rice + 2 cups vegetables or salad - higher rice on harder training days
Diner no training day: 150g raw lean meat + 2-3 cups vegetables/salad no specific added carbs and higher meat to help fill me up

Only been trying this for 12 days so far. First couple of days I felt hungry, but after that felt OK. She worked around my preference to row fasted first thing. It also fits with my thyroxine intake and waiting an hour after to eat - I train in between. Obviously I have no other dietary requirements ie vegan. I did ask for no cottage cheese :lol: . I miss eating fruit as I used to eat 5 or 6 pieces a day. Apparently eating most of that in one go produces an insulin spike which causes the body to hold on to things. Now I put fruit in when there is an option to do so. There are of course other options for all meals these are just an example.

I can eat almost anything but in proportion and limited portion sizes with deliberate choice of when and where to put carbs.

Hope that is helpful.

Cheers, Lesley
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by paulgould »

Thats quite a complex nutrition program there, Lesley, but I'm sure that the nutritionist knows what she is talking about and that you will benefit from the program.
I don't have the discipline to follow such a regime - basically have one meal(large) a day in the evening, so effectively rowing fasted - I eat as much red meat as I can catch and have cut back on the snacks and the oven-ready meals.

On the rowing front I have been experimenting trying to find the optimum combination of rate and DF for my circumstances - in the last 2 weeks I have set some benchmarks that I intend to re-visit every month or two to monitor progress.
The rows are all at rate 20(exactly 600 strokes for 30R20, exactly 1200 strokes for 60R20) , varying the DF but trying as best I can to have roughly the same RPE every row :

These are the first set of benchmarks :

30R20 on DF 250 - 7161m
30R20 on DF 300 - 7122m
30R20 on DF 350 - 7112m
60R20 on DF 300(305) - 13825m

I will probably try one at DF 225 and then one at DF 200 which should be slightly quicker and easier.
I am dreadfully slow at the catch and at any drag lower than that, even at R20, I won't be quick enough to catch the flywheel :oops: :oops: .

Paul G
55, 1.74m , Sep '20 - 114 kg , currently - 88 kg
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200m - 30.8
300m - 47.7
30r20 - 7754m
12 hr - 139300m
100 mile - 14:10.12
200km - 18:28.30
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duffyoz
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Re: Strength training(on and off the erg)

Post by duffyoz »

How do people handle interrupted sessions?. Due to external events for which I distract myself by working harder, I have been interrupted in weights sessions quite a few times. If close to the end, I just chuck it in but this annoys me. Do people restart? It would seem that the most benefit is gained from those later reps and sets.
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