Marathon Training.

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strider77
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Re: Marathon Training.

Post by strider77 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:55 pm

Thanks Greg have PM'd you.
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Swinny
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Re: Marathon Training.

Post by Swinny » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:39 am

Hi, so I completed my first marathon the other day, a 3:19:44.
My rowing target is to get this under 3 hours. Thats it, I don't care about anything else, 2k times, 10k times even though these will obviously get better as I train. I will never race, I do this just to keep fit.
I have a bad back injury, 2 disc prolapse L4/5 and L3/4, L4/5 there is nothing left, L3/4 is only 1/3 the size it should be. I have been offered 2 disc replacement be I am waiting until I absolutely must have it done before I get it done.
I took up rowing after giving up cycling (which I loved) because I could not ride anymore due to the injury.
I have found I can row even though it is painful, its pain I can put up with, and the rowing helps everything I need to keep strong to help the injury.
Can anyone offer me a way to get to my target please, I really have no idea if doing lots of HM's and keep getting those faster will help, I don't have a clue.
I have downloaded the Eddie Fletcher Marathon Plan but I'm only still a beginner as I have only been rowing for 4 months.
If anyone can offer a quite simplistic way to train to start to get me on my way then after another 3-4 months I could try the EF plan.
I was thinking of doing the 30 hm's in 45 days challenge as something to do to start with.
Any advise is much appreciated. Thanks

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Re: Marathon Training.

Post by plummy » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:43 pm

Hi Swinny,

I would suggest that sticking with long rows is your best route forward and the 30 HMs in 44 days (Crazy Bear Challenge) that starts in November would be a great help. I usually take part in that event and find that the fact I become accustomed to sitting there each time for around 90 minutes regularly makes the 3 hour (ish) session far less mentally challenging.

Do you have a time frame for your 3 hour FM? I assume you are not looking at short term if you are considering something in Nov/Dec as part of your training?
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Swinny
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Re: Marathon Training.

Post by Swinny » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:00 pm

Hi Plummy,
No, no time frame, it would be nice to be close by summer 2019, but if I progress well and manage it sooner then brill.
The trouble is with my back, I'm up for the amount of training that I need to do, its just sometimes the back can't take it and i end up hurting myself to much and then can't train for a week. Hence I don't want to put a time to it really as its just depressing seeing your time disappear when injured.
I will keep cracking out the HM's for the time being and try to get the time down on those first, maybe chuck in a FM every month just to remind me that the HM are easy.
Once I get a FM to 3hours I then want to have a crack at 100k.

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Re: Marathon Training.

Post by plummy » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:36 pm

I admire your ambition and lunacy - you'll fit in really quite well here :-)

100km is a whole new ballgame. They HURT!
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Swinny
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Re: Marathon Training.

Post by Swinny » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:02 am

I can imagine. One more question, I have quite a large sore on my arse near the coccyx (only on left side which shows i'm not sitting quite right) that has rubbed the top layer of skin right off, any tips to help avoid this? I guess the area will get tougher over time, I have a cream that is good for this from my endurance rides I used to do which i will stick on next time. I also have the C2 seat pad which I used. Is there anything else you guys use or do I have to stick with it until its like a bit of old leather?

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Re: Marathon Training.

Post by plummy » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:08 am

I get exactly the same thing in exactly the same spot and it only occurs every now and again. I also use a C2 seat pad on every session. I've never "bottomed" out the precise cause but have begun to wonder if it is the seam in my rowing shorts. Not being one to check if it is straight and true or slightly to one side before each row I think a slight misalignment could be enough (plus a longer distance row) to cause the scuffing issue.
Bar some post rowing Sudocrem application, I've not come up with a solution for prevention...yet
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Swinny
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Re: Marathon Training.

Post by Swinny » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:08 am

I would also love to get to the "bottom" =D> of the cause to, the cream I used for cycling was very good, I will post its name when I get home. Its a barrier cream that is one of the best for pressure sores. I just forgot to use it before the row #-o

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Re: Marathon Training.

Post by Iain » Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:53 pm

Personally I would say mix it up a bit to keep the rowing more interesting. Regular HMs or so are useful, but only necessary every few weeks. I find tht having rowed quicker helps me to maintain a faster pace when going for a better time, while buiding up the distance rowed at 2:08 gets you used to the necessary pace for the 3 hr Marathon. Variations like 6kr6', 5kr5'...1k (ie basically HM but done quicker with rests to drink and towel down), going 1S/500m faster for each interval (usually a bit more for the 2k & 1k) makes it more interesting. Also general training theory suggets that you will plateau repeating the same session.

If you don't mind me asking, did you take any breaks in the FM? If not, then I would suggest that you need to address the pace differential if you are going to get close to 3 hours. 37% more power requires a change in approach, involving one or more of improving technique, significant increase in rating (probably with different breathing rhythm) &/or increased strength. The first is best addressed by getting an assessment even from a video on th forum or someone knowledgable watching you. The latter 2 I would say are better addressed through the normal training plans (although with regular hour plus rows thrown in). As to the best approach, that would depend on what rating you used in that row.

Re the sores, I have not had that problem since investing in good quality wicking underwear. As for a 100k believe me it is many times harder than an FM. Needs nutrition and that needs experimenting. I failed to reaclimatise to the high sugar drinks. Despite drinking at about 1/3 strength of commercial energy drinks stomach sufferred and did over half with bad stomach! Not to be repeated.

Best of luck.

Iain
50 year old Lwt (in ability and weight) trying to develop a technique that doesn't cause hysterics and get back to regular rowing.
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Swinny
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Re: Marathon Training.

Post by Swinny » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:06 am

Wow, cheers for that info. I see what your saying, especially with it will get boring.
When I did the FM, I had the damper on 4, spm around 19/20 keeping my HR at around 140. Bare in mind that the first one was paced just to finish it first so I could see how I felt at each stage. Pace was around 2:15/500 up to 20k when I then did my first stand up stretch (my back hurts a lot while rowing) only about 30secs not rowing, I did another at 30k and one at 38k. So about 1min 30 of my time I wasn't rowing. I was drinking around every 5k and one hand rowing while drinking. As for how I felt, at the end of it Buggered, last 10k was not fun. But I got back on it the next day and had i mess about session and a 2k so not to bad.
I am on holiday in a few weeks, when I come back from that I will start training properly as mentioned in your post. I am doing 10K rows everyday at the minute (no stops) playing with spm and damper settings to see how each feels while working on base line endurance.
As for fueling, when I was cycling, endurance rides where mainly what I did, so I have brought my experience from what i learned during that faze over to the rowing. I make my own energy drinks which ribena and glucose powder and have gels. I did not have any gels during the FM (went to buy them but store was shut) which is why I think I struggled more than I should have in the last hour.
I definitely believe you that 100k is many time worse, but thats why I am drawn to it, to see if I can do it, but i'm being realistic about my ability and waiting until I have a body that has a chance of doing it, hopeful summer next year.

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Re: Marathon Training.

Post by Swinny » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:18 pm

Sorry to double post, When you mentioned do a HM in stages with rests, how long do you rest for roughly?

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Re: Marathon Training.

Post by paulgould » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:40 pm

Swinny wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:06 am
Wow, cheers for that info. I see what your saying, especially with it will get boring.
When I did the FM, I had the damper on 4, spm around 19/20 keeping my HR at around 140. Bare in mind that the first one was paced just to finish it first so I could see how I felt at each stage. Pace was around 2:15/500 up to 20k when I then did my first stand up stretch (my back hurts a lot while rowing) only about 30secs not rowing, I did another at 30k and one at 38k. So about 1min 30 of my time I wasn't rowing. I was drinking around every 5k and one hand rowing while drinking. As for how I felt, at the end of it Buggered, last 10k was not fun. But I got back on it the next day and had i mess about session and a 2k so not to bad.
Hi Jim
Welcome to Free Spirits - it's nice to see another islander in the club, especially one who likes the madness of ultra-distance events.
I have done a few myself(alongside Iain and Plummy) including a 24-hr, a 12 hr, a 200k , a 100k and about 40 FMs - albeit none recently, and would be happy to get together sometime to see if I can offer any help and advice, or just to share war/horror stories!! (I am just down the road, in Gurnard).
Regarding the 100k - IMO there are no real short-cuts - you need to get the LSD(Long Slow Distance) miles in - physically it is not much tougher than an FM, but mentally it is a lot harder and you have to get used to long sessions.
As Iain said, it is good to mix things up a bit - to alleviate the boredom if nothing else, but the important thing is to build up the endurance base first.

Paul G
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200m - 30.8
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Swinny
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Re: Marathon Training.

Post by Swinny » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:20 pm

Hi Paul, a meet up would be great. I will PM you my details. I have seen your impressive long distance stuff, it would great to have help from someone like yourself. Cheers

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Iain
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Re: Marathon Training.

Post by Iain » Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:39 am

Swinny wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:18 pm
Sorry to double post, When you mentioned do a HM in stages with rests, how long do you rest for roughly?
It depends what you are trying to achieve. To just alleviate the discomfort and shrpen technique / drink, 1-2 mins fine. If you are trying to maintain a quicker pace than you could for the longer distance I prefer 4 min breaks, although often row half at a very light pace. That said, I would listen to Paul, he knows much more about this than I do, although he doesn't always realise that not everyone has his mental strength!

Re the damper setting, machines vary, so it is more useful if you go into other functions and note the "drag factor" that is consistant between machines. You might also like to consider contacting PaulS on the UK or US Forums and getting a C-Breeze. They aren't perfect (can't be used at fast paces), but direct the air from the fan at you to cool you down. They do lower the drag, so you need to increase the damper to get the same row. I find that dropping the drag by about 10 helps with very long distances.

Best wishes

Iain
50 year old Lwt (in ability and weight) trying to develop a technique that doesn't cause hysterics and get back to regular rowing.
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Swinny
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Re: Marathon Training.

Post by Swinny » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:51 am

Iain wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:39 am
Swinny wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:18 pm
Sorry to double post, When you mentioned do a HM in stages with rests, how long do you rest for roughly?
If you are trying to maintain a quicker pace than you could for the longer distance I prefer 4 min breaks, although often row half at a very light pace.
You might also like to consider contacting PaulS on the UK or US Forums and getting a C-Breeze.
Wow, only 4 mins, ok i'll give it a go. As for fan, i have a fan blowing at me so that's all good thanks.

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