Do i need to cross train / weight train ?

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davejm
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Do i need to cross train / weight train ?

Post by davejm »

Hi

Just a quick question, after a long break - 5 years ! Im back rowing , Yay :)

When i last rowed it was at a gym so i also lifted weights and also run. I've now invested in a concept2 and row at home, been back rowing about eight weeks. Just interested to hear peoples opinions on how good i will be able to get without additional strength/ cardio training. Not looking at breaking any records (Not that i could!) but do want to get to a decent standard.

If i did start cross training - not easy to sort, then it would be to the detriment of rowing time.

Let me know your thoughts ?

Thanks

Dave
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zootMutant
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Re: Do i need to cross train / weight train ?

Post by zootMutant »

How old are you (roughly) and what is your current fitness? (Was this 5 years of being idle? Or 5 years of participating in a different activity?) :-k
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davejm
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Re: Do i need to cross train / weight train ?

Post by davejm »

Hi,

Pretty idle if im honest #-o . Occasional runs and quite active lifestyle but no serious training.

Since i started back have managed a 41:27 10k and last night a 1:35:7 500m which did nearly kill me!

Early 40's - 6ft and carrying to much weight !

:D :D
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gregsmith01748
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Re: Do i need to cross train / weight train ?

Post by gregsmith01748 »

Interesting question. To some extent it depends on what your goals are, and to some extent, it doesn't matter all that much.

If what you want to do is lose weight and get fast on the erg, then the best course of action is to figure out how much time you have to devote to exercise and come up with a plan that you really enjoy doing. I think that the biggest issue is consistency. If you set goals that you simply don't have enough time for, or easy access to equipment, then you end up less successful than a more moderate plan that you can really stick with.

But I digress.

Now, assuming that your goal is to row faster, how can weightlifting help? If your focus is on sprinting (1K and shorter distances), there is no doubt in my mind that including a significant amount of strength training has a beneficial effect. Essentially, hypertrophy increases muscle mass, which let's you apply more power, so you're faster. Once you get past 1K, then the endurance becomes much more important than power, so it is possible to leave it out of a training plan and still make a lot progress.

There is a very good chapter in Rowing Faster that provides guidelines to help you figure out if lack of strength is holding back rowing performance. It is based on 3 basic lifts: Squat, Bench Pull and Deadlift.

For a 40-44 year old male rower, you should be able to hit these targets:
- Squat: 1.3x body weight
- Deadlift: 1.3x body weight
- Bench Pull: 0.98x body weight
If you fall short of those standards, then strength training will probably help get faster.

But what if you meet those targets? Does that mean that you should NOT weight lift? It's not that simple. There is a fair amount of good research that supports the claim that weight lifting helps to address imbalance issues from rowing, helps to prevent injuries, and counters the age related declines in muscle mass. So that means that you should definitely lifts weights, right?

Not so fast! Since the main thing that helps you get faster is being lighter and having excellent endurance, you do need to look at the marginal utility of time spent lifting weights versus more time building endurance. If you are trying to lose weight, the other thing to keep in mind is that strength training tends to make you hungry and endurance training (at the right intensity) will not enhance appetite as much.

So, here is my sure fire formula.
1. Take the strength tests (keep in mind you probably want to think about these in terms of your target weight versus your current weight)
2a. If you fall short of the benchmark scores, do 3 strength sessions per week, focus on low rep, high weight and rowing related lifts (squats, deadlifts, good mornings, seated rows, bench pulls, pull ups), but also include opposing exercises (bench press, core, etc).
2b. If you hit the benchmarks, it's up to you, and depends on how much time you have. If you have time for 2 sessions a day on 2 days during a week, doing lower weight, higher rep sessions including both rowing and opposing exercises would be useful for injury prevention. But I wouldn't sacrifice endurance meters to do it.

That's my 2 cents.
Greg - Age: 53 H: 182cm W: 88Kg (should be 83Kg)
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zootMutant
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Re: Do i need to cross train / weight train ?

Post by zootMutant »

An excellent post by Greg with some great information! (As always. :fsbgrin: ) No graphs though. :(

Dave, the reason I asked about your age is that I find, as I get older, that my training is limited not by how much free time I have available, but by how much time I need to recover. If rowing were my only exercise, I would need 2-3 rest days per week.

Cross-training, for me, is a way to continue to exercise while at the same time recovering. (My quads and lower back recover while I am contra dancing. My heart recovers while I'm lifting weights.) Overall, I can spend more hours each week exercising if I include cross-training.

Also, weight lifting for me is not about improving my rowing, but improving my overall fitness. I spend most of my time sitting in a car... or at a computer... or on the rowing machine. Weight lifting allows me to exercise each muscle throughout its full range of motion; it helps keep my joints loose and my muscles flexible.

You are young enough that these concerns might not apply to you.

If your primary goal is to get the most out of rowing that you can... I would not include any cross-training and I would only lift weights to correct deficiencies. But, as Greg says, it really depends on your goals.

How good can you get? I don't know, but I think you can get close enough to all of your old PBs that they are definitely worth shooting for. If you're not greedy -- if you take time to let your body adapt -- I think you'll be close to many of those PBs within a year.

Good luck!

Cheers,
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davejm
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Re: Do i need to cross train / weight train ?

Post by davejm »

Guys, Thanks so much.

Looks like its probably worth me doing at least some weight based training. Greg i would guess I am along way short of the sort of lifts you mention so will do the tests and work on achieving the levels.

If anything i find i have a tendency to over-train, I love pulling hard on the erg but have to ensure I fit in easier days and weights may help me achieve this.

On the cardio side when i last rowed i was much fitter (Running wise) but so far this hasnt seemed to affect me as much as i would think.

Thanks again will sit down and create a plan.
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gregsmith01748
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Re: Do i need to cross train / weight train ?

Post by gregsmith01748 »

Dave,

A couple of other notes about trying to mix strength training with rowing.

1. The order matters. There is solid research that doing endurance training after strength training will essentially "undo" the muscle building stimulus provided by the strength training. You should wait at least a few hours after doing strength training to do endurance training so all your enzymes can do their thing.

2. If you do an endurance session and a strength session in the same day, limit the duration, and especially the intensity of the endurance training. If you train to Heart Rate, you should keep it a UT2 intensity session. And probably no more than 40 minutes. Zoot's point about recovery is really important for finely aged athletes like us. If you row hard and then lift hard, you will end up going in the wrong direction because you won't have the time needed to rebuild.
Greg - Age: 53 H: 182cm W: 88Kg (should be 83Kg)
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