Fitness Matters Training Programme

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Paul Victory
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Re: Fitness Matters Training Programme

Post by Paul Victory »

Just wondering how everyone is getting on with the current training plan. I've been finding it challenging, but I'm starting to get the hang of restricted rate rowing and I generally have been able to complete the sessions on target or a bit faster. This is probably due to the fact that the target paces are based on the times I did for 2k and 5k TTs immediately before the program started and these reflected my state of fitness at that time (1:48.9 and 1:54.2 pace respectively). If had been fully fit and doing times closer to my SB, I would probably be finding it much more difficult. :roll:

I have to take a few days off following a cortisone injection in my left shoulder and will be playing catch up next week. That should be interesting! :shock: #-o

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Re: Fitness Matters Training Programme

Post by plummy »

I'm on the verge of bailing out on it (or at least bailing out on reporting the session results). After an exchange of thoughts re the 18SPM stuff Sam elected to send a a general post containing the words "Dipping in and out won't work " which I've taken as directed straight at me owing to the timing of its posting.
I'm enjoying not having to think about what session I'm going to do but to have zero perceived tolerance on flexibility I find very annoying. Given I feel no fitter than I was 4 weeks ago and my times are only where I should expect to be anyway I'm along way from being convinced that the "plan" is any better than the Pete Plan (or any other structured plan where you simply start at a point in fitness and do lots of modest distance stuff in intervals and each time try and go a bit faster than before.

I also find it very odd that in a plan that requires a certain number of workouts a week, many of the combatants are posting their third workout on the 3rd day of the week and have done all of them still with days of the week to go - almost as if it's a race to get them done and post them up for viewing/comments - maybe that's just me being way more laid back about it.

I'll freely admit that if I was a beginner. newbie or had never followed a plan then this (or the Pete Plan or any other plan) would likely bring tremendous results but that's not the base I am coming from and the one that made me a little reluctant to join at the start.

The one thing I will never know is what my level of "performance" would be if I'd just stuck to doing my own thing
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Paul Victory
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Re: Fitness Matters Training Programme

Post by Paul Victory »

I agree with your comments about some of the people taking part in the plan. It's very strange to see session 4 posted on a Wednesday. It's not a competition, but I guess some people are treating it that way.

Sam can be a bit blunt at times, so I wouldn't take his comments personally. I think the number of people taking part this time around is making it a bit unwieldy and I probably won't bother signing up for the next program, particularly as I will be in Portugal for a week in May (shortly after Madchester) and again at end June/early July.

But I'll follow the current program to completion (injuries permitting :roll: ) and maybe use my improved aptitude for slow rated pieces to have another go at the WP.

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Re: Fitness Matters Training Programme

Post by Kirstin »

Well, I'm one of those who usually has the third workout posted by Wednesday. No idea why the others do it that way, but for me it's scheduling issue. Or was. Now that the school year is about over I have a lot more flexibility.
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Re: Fitness Matters Training Programme

Post by plummy »

I did think it may be down to some having limited weekend time availability (which is entirely the opposite for me with weekends very clear). Maybe it's just perception - whichever way works is fine (one or two are a week or so behind so I guess it all balances out)
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Re: Fitness Matters Training Programme

Post by sander »

plummy wrote:I'm on the verge of bailing out on it (or at least bailing out on reporting the session results). After an exchange of thoughts re the 18SPM stuff Sam elected to send a a general post containing the words "Dipping in and out won't work " which I've taken as directed straight at me owing to the timing of its posting.
I'm enjoying not having to think about what session I'm going to do but to have zero perceived tolerance on flexibility I find very annoying. Given I feel no fitter than I was 4 weeks ago and my times are only where I should expect to be anyway I'm along way from being convinced that the "plan" is any better than the Pete Plan (or any other structured plan where you simply start at a point in fitness and do lots of modest distance stuff in intervals and each time try and go a bit faster than before.

I also find it very odd that in a plan that requires a certain number of workouts a week, many of the combatants are posting their third workout on the 3rd day of the week and have done all of them still with days of the week to go - almost as if it's a race to get them done and post them up for viewing/comments - maybe that's just me being way more laid back about it.

I'll freely admit that if I was a beginner. newbie or had never followed a plan then this (or the Pete Plan or any other plan) would likely bring tremendous results but that's not the base I am coming from and the one that made me a little reluctant to join at the start.

The one thing I will never know is what my level of "performance" would be if I'd just stuck to doing my own thing
A plán is a plan but if there is zero tolerance for flexibility it's not going to work. I don't know about you but I need a lot of flexibility to combine the plan with my work and family.
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Re: Fitness Matters Training Programme

Post by CamiCrew »

I love the plan so far (week 4 of 6) -- it's tough but there is rhyme and reason to how it's being done. I came into it with a solid fitness base having worked on aerobic in the fall/winter and just finished a couple high rate months on the water, and I'm finding my limits well challenged and much to learn along the way. The precision TT-based pacing is what I like the best, and after that, the sense of group progress toward our own respective goals.

Like Kirstin, definitely am feeling the need to jump right on the sessions and get them logged. It's a race against the week slipping away, not against anyone else. I work full time, and right now my best timing is to knock them out the moment I can leave work and before dinner. I do NOT want the sessions hanging over me after dinner or on weekends if possible. I row 8-10k on the water both Sat and Sun - and the remainder is family / relaxation / house projects time. I very much needed the rest day Wed between S2 and S3 (hour of weight training happens Tues night after S2 -- rest day becomes mandatory) plus I missed S4 today (Fri) due to a solid busy work day so I'll have to fit it in tomorrow. Amazing how fast the week flies by and I'd slip behind quickly if I let my procrastination streak have its way.

I'll miss week 6 due to travel - but I do think the plan allows catch up time. Hope so anyhow. I'm going to avoid thinking about attempting 2ks with jetlag. :wink:
-barbara

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Re: Fitness Matters Training Programme

Post by Recess »

plummy wrote:I'm on the verge of bailing out on it (or at least bailing out on reporting the session results). After an exchange of thoughts re the 18SPM stuff Sam elected to send a a general post containing the words "Dipping in and out won't work " which I've taken as directed straight at me owing to the timing of its posting.
Dave, if I played any part in that with my squash story, I'm really sorry - please believe it wasn't meant as antagonistic, more my attempt at motivation - until you said it was pain that made it something you didn't want to do anymore.

You'd have to hope that Sam's post was co-incidental, but if it made you not enjoy the process, then it wasn't a cleverly timed post by him regardless of its intent.

I think the big difference this plan makes to me is that I've never had a plan, I've never had structure when it came to my training. So the lack of flexibility is exactly what I need. I need someone to tell me to row this, and how fast to do it - and as I've put myself in the plan's hands, I blindly trust it and go ahead and do it.

Ignorance is bliss! And the proof of that is that I go faster when I cover the monitor. My brain obviously gets in the way and says I can't do something - having something that removes that (like blind rowing, or someone telling me that the 'maths' mean I can do it) frees me to just go ahead and row, and not panic about whether I can hold that split or not...

Good to see you're posting results though - that you weren't put off. Assuming Week 7 includes another 2k and 5K test at one point, are you interested in trying to see if you can go faster? Or do you think there's not been the improvement to warrant it?

Anyway, see you all next Saturday!

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Paul Victory
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Re: Fitness Matters Training Programme

Post by Paul Victory »

Finished week 6 today. It was my 7th day in a row doing one of the training plan sessions, so I found it tough mentally - slight feeling of burn out. But I'm glad to have it finished and I'm looking forward to a few weeks of a la carte dining.

I guess part of the proof of the pudding will be in the 5k time I do on Saturday. My 5k TT at the start of the program was 1:54.2 pace, but I feel that this was partly due to lack of fitness following my travels and the injuries incurred therein. I would hope to get close to or under 18:30 on Saturday (1:51.0 pace), but who knows? Looking forward to having tomorrow off. :fswink:

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Re: Fitness Matters Training Programme

Post by danfennell »

Hope your 5k goes well Paul. I learned a lot from Sam's plan(s) but think they can be a bit of a double edged sword. The structure and group aspect can inspire and motivate but I think some people (me for one) run the risk of pushing too hard. I rarely, if ever, did any true recovery rows and eventually ended up physically and mentally burned out. I don't blame Sam for that as he does recommend doing slower rows but when the gains are coming quickly it can be hard to take your foot off the gas. Upon reflection I realized that since I started rowing over 2 1/2 years ago I hardly ever did any true aerobic base building. In fact when I looked at my training diary just about everyday last July - October was a hard row. No wonder the wheels started to come off in November.

So for the past few months I have been following the Maffetone Method where all training is done at a pretty low HR (180-age which is 134bpm for me). The science behind it made a lot of sense to/for me and it does seem to be working. Had to get a few metabolic imbalances straightened out to really notice any improvement. In addition to being a bit anemic I also had very low Vitamin D levels. Damn near rowed myself to death!!!
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Re: Fitness Matters Training Programme

Post by Paul Victory »

Thanks Dan, I must do a bit of research on that. I definitely feel I need a change of gear right now to avoid burn out. The last few months have been very challenging, with the extended trip to New Zealand, lots of travelling around (and lots of seeking out ergs along the way), injuries to my shoulder and knee while travelling, dealing with physio after I got home, etc. etc.

I'm glad I did the plan (I was feeling very doubtful and it was a last minute decision), but I'm also looking forward to being able to take things a little bit easier over the coming weeks. I'm an all or nothing kind of guy, so if I sign up for something, I tend to go at it bald headed. But I'm no longer a spring chicken, so I need to be realistic about how I approach things.

The last thing I want to do is to catch a serious dose of CBA and I've felt perilously close to getting there over the last few days. So I'm looking forward to a change in routine. Manchester on Saturday (and hopefully a decent 5k), 2k TT and CTC attempt early next week, then off to Alvor from Thursday 19th until the following Thursday. :mrgreen:
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Re: Fitness Matters Training Programme

Post by danfennell »

There's a lot of "science" behind it that some agree with and others, of course, don't. Aerobic vs. anaerobic, sympathetic vs. parasympathetic nervous system, fat vs. sugar as fuel, etc.

The basic theory I felt applied to me was - although I made huge gains - I never fully developed my aerobic system. That takes time and I wasn't patient as chasing splits and knocking off PB's was fun right up until it wasn't.

My plan is to stick with it through the summer and then gradually re-introduce intervals and anaerobic work in a bit more balanced manner. If anything it has taught me a valuable lesson about recognizing the signs of overreaching/overtraining and the need for recovery. It was a bit frustrating at first but it's been a great learning experience, a nice "change of pace' and I'm enjoying rowing again. :D
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Re: Fitness Matters Training Programme

Post by Paul Victory »

Having completed the 6 week programme, I did a retest of my 2k and 5k times.

Results were as follows:

2k: 7:11.6 to 7:03.5 - 8.1 seconds improvement
5k: 19:02.4 to 18:41.3 - 21.1 seconds improvement

The 2k was a second attempt done today (first attempt was 7:08.4 on Monday) and the 5k was done at Madchester. In both cases an improvement of just over 2 seconds per 500m. I'm still a long way off last season's SBs, but it's a move in the right direction. How much is due to the training programme and how much is just general recovery from injury is difficult to assess, but I'd like to try doing something similar at some future date when I'm closer to full fitness.

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Re: Fitness Matters Training Programme

Post by Wolfmiester »

hm, here's me thinking about jumping in ... and you guys are thinking about jumping out! :-)
The biggest decision for me is to join Face Book first #-o :?
How do I get in touch with Sam, FB only?
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Re: Fitness Matters Training Programme

Post by plummy »

I never did the 2k "after" TT but managed the 5k at Madchester. Although it was 20s faster than my TT marker before the 6 week training, I was pretty disgusted with how hard that felt and how slow the time was (for a TT). So overall, I gained precisely nothing (as I had managed a time 2s faster than my 2k "after" TT just hopping on my machine one day a couple of months ago.
My 2k "after" TT ended in a HD after 3 minutes.

What the programme does give you is a level of structure similar to the Pete Plan where you try and edge forward over something you did a week or so before and not having to wonder what training to do on a given session

What I felt it missed completely
- is any help with technique/diet/rest/recovery
- "useful" feedback. A bunch of people saying "well done" only helps so far
- 4 hard sessions a week is too much in my view (depending on your age) so for me I found I was just tired/fatigued a lot.
- no help with overcoming mental demons. Just assumption that if you follow the programme, it'll land in your lap - it didn't

I think it is good for someone who has never followed any sort of programme or is new to the sport - but any random mix of interval/steady state sessions where you just aim to better the previous one by a little bit each week will get you that result.
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Re: Fitness Matters Training Programme

Post by Paul Victory »

I'm inclined to agree that the people who will benefit most from the plan are those who are relatively new to rowing. Whether it's any better than following the Pete Plan or the Wolverine Plan remains to be seen. The fact that you had to get the sessions completed within a particular timeframe and post them online helped to keep you 'honest', but I'm not sure it's worth paying a regular fee just for that feature. And I agree that four hard sessions a week may be too much for some people - I certainly found it challenging.

Bottom line is, I'm not planning to sign up for the next 8 week program, but may revisit at some future date. I'm still a long way off full fitness, but I need to focus on getting my diet under control and getting a better sleep pattern as my immediate priorities.
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Re: Fitness Matters Training Programme

Post by CamiCrew »

Wolfie - hope you join, I'm in for the off season eight weeks. I had to think carefully about it as Dan Fennell's comments rang true for me. My understanding is this eight weeks will be less intense (3 to 5 sessions, so you have some control over the intensity) -- which works for me because I have various other events during this time. I feel, however, that these plans keep me on track for logging the erg workouts (not putting them off) and the support in the FB group motivates me. That said, I am not a heavy FaceBook user so posting for this plan was the most challenging aspect of it for me.

Here's the address from the FM site: sam@fitnessmatters.me.uk

Sam would be able to give you the link to the 8 week program. This is last week to sign up.
-barbara

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Re: Fitness Matters Training Programme

Post by plummy »

Putting the plan in perspective - I elected to do a straight 10k tonight at whatever rate I fancied (turned out to be 26/27SPM) and having quit the programme effectively 2.5 weeks ago, I nailed my 3rd best 10k in the last 2 years (and one of the better ones was my race at Madchester). OK - nothing glorious at 40:05.4 and the last 3k was very tough with me straying above the "o-oh!" heartrate of 163+ for a while with over 2k to go.

Having done a 153km in 26 hours last weekend which bears no resemblance to anything the plan was purveying I feel for sure that the plan did nothing for me bar wear me out a with unnecessarily low rate work for a LWT.
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