Comparison of Indoor Rowing and Running pace vs Distance
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- gregsmith01748
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Comparison of Indoor Rowing and Running pace vs Distance
I did a quick comparison of world record paces for running and indoor rowing. The source for running paces was wikipedia. The source for rowing was the world record times for the 19-29, male , heavyweight group from the concept2 website. I might have missed a better record in a different catagory, but I think it illustrates the point.
One thing to note. Since very different athletes set world records in sprints than in marathons, this plot would not be valid for any single athlete. Natural sprints would start faster and drop more quickly over distance. Distance athletes would start slower, but show a more shallow slope.
But you can see that both roughly follow a logarithmic decline and that running is about 20% faster. Again for very different athletes. If you took a world class marathon runner and dropped him on an erg, he would be way slower than the 20% difference. And if you took the rowing world record marathoner and asked him to run a marathon, I would bet his time would be nearly 20 behind the world class runner.
One thing to note. Since very different athletes set world records in sprints than in marathons, this plot would not be valid for any single athlete. Natural sprints would start faster and drop more quickly over distance. Distance athletes would start slower, but show a more shallow slope.
But you can see that both roughly follow a logarithmic decline and that running is about 20% faster. Again for very different athletes. If you took a world class marathon runner and dropped him on an erg, he would be way slower than the 20% difference. And if you took the rowing world record marathoner and asked him to run a marathon, I would bet his time would be nearly 20 behind the world class runner.
Greg - Age: 53 H: 182cm W: 88Kg (should be 83Kg)
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Re: Comparison of Indoor Rowing and Running pace vs Distance
Never ever!gregsmith01748 wrote:And if you took the rowing world record marathoner and asked him to run a marathon, I would bet his time would be nearly 20 behind the world class runner.
Rowers are way too heavy for running at world class speed (2:02:57 for 42km, which is around 21km/h). Maybe some LWTs (but even those LWT are too heavy by about 10kg ) have a better chance, but I doubt that they will be able to come even close to those 20%.
- Rob C
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Re: Comparison of Indoor Rowing and Running pace vs Distance
Can you even draw a comparison?
Running will inevitably be a more efficient means of motion. Direct contact between the foot and ground means direct transfer of all the energy. The only thing slowing you is a downward force of gravity (especially uphill) and a nominal wind resistance.
Rowing, even an indoor rower is supposed to simulate that you are moving not only your own person, but also a craft against which there is the friction of water. There is also a loss of mechanical energy in transfer of the energy from rower to oars to water. If you were in water not all energy from the oars goes directly to the direction of travel as there would be spillage. I'm not quite sure that an erg truly reflects all of those losses.
In practice I suspect that, apart from the fact that as rowers we get to sit down, the rower is probably a more accomplished all rounder, rather than the dedicated efficiency of the runner.
Running will inevitably be a more efficient means of motion. Direct contact between the foot and ground means direct transfer of all the energy. The only thing slowing you is a downward force of gravity (especially uphill) and a nominal wind resistance.
Rowing, even an indoor rower is supposed to simulate that you are moving not only your own person, but also a craft against which there is the friction of water. There is also a loss of mechanical energy in transfer of the energy from rower to oars to water. If you were in water not all energy from the oars goes directly to the direction of travel as there would be spillage. I'm not quite sure that an erg truly reflects all of those losses.
In practice I suspect that, apart from the fact that as rowers we get to sit down, the rower is probably a more accomplished all rounder, rather than the dedicated efficiency of the runner.
- gregsmith01748
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Re: Comparison of Indoor Rowing and Running pace vs Distance
And also, much, much better looking!Rob C wrote: In practice I suspect that, apart from the fact that as rowers we get to sit down, the rower is probably a more accomplished all rounder, rather than the dedicated efficiency of the runner.
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- Iain
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Re: Comparison of Indoor Rowing and Running pace vs Distance
Interesting that the 2 are in synch for the world's best, because generally pace falls off quicker running than erging. 3:30 FM on an erg (2:29 split) is achievable by anyone with guts and a bit of fitness / technique, while a good time running!
- Iain
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- kirbyt
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Re: Comparison of Indoor Rowing and Running pace vs Distance
I personally had the opposite happen. I was kind of a large runner at 160 lbs and now I'm a small rower. When I was in my thirties, I used to run a lot and even did some speed training. It took me a lot of hard work just to break 40 minutes for 10k when the lead guys were doing low 30's. Imagine my surprise when I took up indoor rowing and found 40 minutes for 10k quite easy to break on the erg. I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from this as I am far from elite at either discipline but I would have loved to be able to run a 36-37 minute 10k.
54 years old probably around 77kg.
- gregsmith01748
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Re: Comparison of Indoor Rowing and Running pace vs Distance
I never trained serious for running, but I am in the same boat (so to speak). I am a 90% to 95% percentile rower for my age groupkirbyt wrote:I personally had the opposite happen. I was kind of a large runner at 160 lbs and now I'm a small rower. When I was in my thirties, I used to run a lot and even did some speed training. It took me a lot of hard work just to break 40 minutes for 10k when the lead guys were doing low 30's. Imagine my surprise when I took up indoor rowing and found 40 minutes for 10k quite easy to break on the erg. I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from this as I am far from elite at either discipline but I would have loved to be able to run a 36-37 minute 10k.
on the c2 rankings, but I am definitely a middle of the pack runner at best.
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Re: Comparison of Indoor Rowing and Running pace vs Distance
I was always a fast runner among rowers and when I was 24 and still in full rowing training I once participated in a running 10k and came in 3rd in a 3x time. I think 36 or 37 but I am not sure. Still love running but I am slow now.
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- Paul Victory
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Re: Comparison of Indoor Rowing and Running pace vs Distance
Interesting figures. I guess comparative times vary greatly from individual to individual, with lightweights likely to be relatively better long distance runners than heavyweights.
I did some road running in my late 20s/early 30s and my erg times in my late 50s/early 60s are somewhat faster than my running times from 30 years ago. For example, my best running marathon was 3:35 something, while I've gone under 3 hours on the erg. My best HM on the road was 89:02 compared to 82:27.6 on the erg. By best 10k running was around 38 and a half minutes (I can't remember the exact time, but I think the course wasn't a completely accurate 10k), while I've done 10k on the erg in just under 37:30.
For those on here who do some running, how do your running times compare with your erg times?
I did some road running in my late 20s/early 30s and my erg times in my late 50s/early 60s are somewhat faster than my running times from 30 years ago. For example, my best running marathon was 3:35 something, while I've gone under 3 hours on the erg. My best HM on the road was 89:02 compared to 82:27.6 on the erg. By best 10k running was around 38 and a half minutes (I can't remember the exact time, but I think the course wasn't a completely accurate 10k), while I've done 10k on the erg in just under 37:30.
For those on here who do some running, how do your running times compare with your erg times?
M 68 6'1" 124kg (May05), 92kg (Feb06), 122kg (Aug10), 95kg (Sep11), 117kg (Jun13), now 98kg
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Re: Comparison of Indoor Rowing and Running pace vs Distance
Top marathon runners like Haile Gebrselassie weighs only around 56kg - that's not far away of half of an HWT. LWT-Rowers have definitely a better chance to come closer to a long distance runner, but even those LWTs with 74kg are too heavy.Paul Victory wrote:Interesting figures. I guess comparative times vary greatly from individual to individual, with lightweights likely to be relatively better long distance runners than heavyweights.
I erg significantly faster at comparable HRT/lacate levels. Years ago I did a lot of (trail-)running, but I was never fast (and running fast™ never felt "good" for me). In spring or summer time I only run once/twice a week… mostly to have some sort of variety and to be outdoors as real rowing is not affordable for me.For those on here who do some running, how do your running times compare with your erg times?
Did last Sunday a run… took me 1:23:06 for 13.13km. That's round about 6:19/km or 3:10/500m – I even can't erg that slow. But I don't care. It was a nice run, which I enjoyed very much.
- gregsmith01748
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Re: Comparison of Indoor Rowing and Running pace vs Distance
I think the conclusion I come to is...Different horses for different courses.
Greg - Age: 53 H: 182cm W: 88Kg (should be 83Kg)
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Re: Comparison of Indoor Rowing and Running pace vs Distance
I'd give anything to row like I used to run. I can't get close to my 5/10K running times. For comparison purposes, I'm 5'6" and my running weight was under 140 lbs; I'm still 5"6", but just at 150 lbs now. I think this is a weight/strength and height/leverage issue. I am in the gym 3X/wk doing squats and dead lifts, but using weights that most there can arm curl with one hand!
Dennis L
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Dennis L
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62 y/o 5'6" 68kg
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Re: Comparison of Indoor Rowing and Running pace vs Distance
Definitely. 150 lbs (around 68kg) is very light for rowing; but for running it's very cool. Try to eat more and do quality strength training to build up muscle mass - but avoid to get "fat". It will take some years and lot of patience and dedication. But you will get stronger - and faster.dblinden wrote:I'd give anything to row like I used to run. [...] I think this is a weight/strength and height/leverage issue.