Video Analysis Thread (post em here!)
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- gregsmith01748
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Video Analysis Thread (post em here!)
[edited after the helpful tips on embedding]
As suggested on another thread, this topic is to provide a place for members to post videos of their rowing. The preferred way to do this is to take a video from the side, and then post it to youtube. The forum provides a specific youtube tag that you can use with the link and it should show up as an embedded video.
To make the analysis a bit easier, there is a free web tool called rowvid, which allows you to slow down, speed up or watch a video frame by frame to look for specific things. Here is the link: http://rowvid.com/
If you've never posted a video to youtube, give it a try, I was impressed with the simplicity of the process the first time I tried it. The only thing you need is a google account, which is free.
To get things started, here are two of me. One off slides and one on slides. Critique welcome.
First, on slides. 30 seconds at r16, then 30 seconds at r18, then 30 seconds at r20. It is VERY difficult row at r16 on slides for me.
Here is some higher rate stuff on slides
Finally, without slides. another rate ladder, starting at r18, then r24 (1:45 pace), then r32 (1:35 pace)
These are 2 months old. Since I've taken them, the main thing that I have been working on is early body prep. Trying to get my body angled forward in the position for the catch before my knees break on the recovery. The other obvious thing from the videos is that I would be faster if I lost at least 10 pounds. The stomach flu seems to be helping me with that project.
As suggested on another thread, this topic is to provide a place for members to post videos of their rowing. The preferred way to do this is to take a video from the side, and then post it to youtube. The forum provides a specific youtube tag that you can use with the link and it should show up as an embedded video.
To make the analysis a bit easier, there is a free web tool called rowvid, which allows you to slow down, speed up or watch a video frame by frame to look for specific things. Here is the link: http://rowvid.com/
If you've never posted a video to youtube, give it a try, I was impressed with the simplicity of the process the first time I tried it. The only thing you need is a google account, which is free.
To get things started, here are two of me. One off slides and one on slides. Critique welcome.
First, on slides. 30 seconds at r16, then 30 seconds at r18, then 30 seconds at r20. It is VERY difficult row at r16 on slides for me.
Here is some higher rate stuff on slides
Finally, without slides. another rate ladder, starting at r18, then r24 (1:45 pace), then r32 (1:35 pace)
These are 2 months old. Since I've taken them, the main thing that I have been working on is early body prep. Trying to get my body angled forward in the position for the catch before my knees break on the recovery. The other obvious thing from the videos is that I would be faster if I lost at least 10 pounds. The stomach flu seems to be helping me with that project.
Last edited by gregsmith01748 on Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Greg - Age: 53 H: 182cm W: 88Kg (should be 83Kg)
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- Recess
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Re: Video Analysis Thread (post em here!)
Just replying to your message Greg with the links embedded. In order to do this, I took off most of the address, but left the code (50ctTZ23cJC4 etc....)
Here is some higher rate stuff on slides
Finally, without slides. another rate ladder, starting at r18, then r24 (1:45 pace), then r32 (1:35 pace)
Here is some higher rate stuff on slides
Finally, without slides. another rate ladder, starting at r18, then r24 (1:45 pace), then r32 (1:35 pace)
It's not how far you go... It's how go you far.
Follow my training blog as I try to break a world record: http://johntherower.com
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- gregsmith01748
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Re: Video Analysis Thread (post em here!)
Thanks! Works differently onthis board than the other one where I lurk.
Greg - Age: 53 H: 182cm W: 88Kg (should be 83Kg)
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Re: Video Analysis Thread (post em here!)
Very good points, Greg.gregsmith01748 wrote:Since I've taken them, the main thing that I have been working on is early body prep. Trying to get my body angled forward in the position for the catch before my knees break on the recovery.
For my understanding I probably see…
- You overcompress (the legs) at the catch. But this will be "fixed" by strict angled forward.
- On some frames I had the impression that your seat went to early on catch, but it's not much.
- strong and powerful leg drive
- At all it looks well controlled
- Does you power curve rise at the end?
- gregsmith01748
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Re: Video Analysis Thread (post em here!)
I don't have my power curve on slides. But here is a shot of one from about 3 months ago.dr3do wrote: I curios about…
- Does you power curve rise at the end?
Greg - Age: 53 H: 182cm W: 88Kg (should be 83Kg)
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- strider77
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Re: Video Analysis Thread (post em here!)
Greg I agree with most of Boris's points
The main thing I noticed is that you are overcompressing quite a bit.
Difficult to see but your foot position seems to be very high which exacerbates the overcompression-I may be wrong
Your control and power in your leg drive is impressive-I am jealous
When you increase stroke rate you seem to be hurrying, it does not look as smooth
Also I would recommend you get hands away straightaway, at the end of the stroke you tend to pause
Have a look at Kiwi pair here for two contrasting styles which both seem pretty effective
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOVmIrWZdWA
Eric seems like he isn't even trying as he puts down a 1:07:58.1-1:36.6 HM !!!!!
All the best
Alan
The main thing I noticed is that you are overcompressing quite a bit.
Difficult to see but your foot position seems to be very high which exacerbates the overcompression-I may be wrong
Your control and power in your leg drive is impressive-I am jealous
When you increase stroke rate you seem to be hurrying, it does not look as smooth
Also I would recommend you get hands away straightaway, at the end of the stroke you tend to pause
Have a look at Kiwi pair here for two contrasting styles which both seem pretty effective
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOVmIrWZdWA
Eric seems like he isn't even trying as he puts down a 1:07:58.1-1:36.6 HM !!!!!
All the best
Alan
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Re: Video Analysis Thread (post em here!)
Thanks for sharing.gregsmith01748 wrote:I don't have my power curve on slides. But here is a shot of one from about 3 months ago.dr3do wrote: I curios about…
- Does you power curve rise at the end?
I would like add, that my impression was, that - at the end of the stroke - you pull too much with your arms. As you have not enough "angle forward" you can't use your torso to continue the drive after "powerful leg drive" - that's why the "trapezoid curve" (is this english? ) is out of shape.
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Re: Video Analysis Thread (post em here!)
All good and valid points. It does get a bit confusing at times. I think it is possible to try to change too much at the same time and get overwhelmed.
- over compression: good point, but it seems to be less of an issue on slides.
- hands away: that's the main thing that I'm working on this winter
- too much arms: not sure how to fix that or how big a deal it is
- feet too high: worth experimenting with different positions. Maybe 20 minutes with 4 holes showing, then 20 with 3, then 20 with 2. All at the same rate and pace. I expect lower feet might help with early body prep.
Ok, I've taken my medicine. Who's next?
- over compression: good point, but it seems to be less of an issue on slides.
- hands away: that's the main thing that I'm working on this winter
- too much arms: not sure how to fix that or how big a deal it is
- feet too high: worth experimenting with different positions. Maybe 20 minutes with 4 holes showing, then 20 with 3, then 20 with 2. All at the same rate and pace. I expect lower feet might help with early body prep.
Ok, I've taken my medicine. Who's next?
Greg - Age: 53 H: 182cm W: 88Kg (should be 83Kg)
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Re: Video Analysis Thread (post em here!)
Brave man.gregsmith01748 wrote:Ok, I've taken my medicine. Who's next?
I don't know if I will be "the next", but I'm definitely™ in… Possibly in 1-2 weeks, as I have to figure out some sort of fixed mount for my smartphone. I hopefully will then get some useful analysis of you guys/gals. [-o<
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Re: Video Analysis Thread (post em here!)
Greg, you might want to get your hands forward a bit quicker. It's not a big deal while OTE, but as I know that you row OTW too, it would help there a lot (unless you're having "quick hands" otw anyway and this is only an erg thing, then just forget my posting )
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Peter
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Re: Video Analysis Thread (post em here!)
If you look at the USA guys rowing (in Strider's link) for their Vo2Max readings they have what could be deemed as a host of technical errors - e.g. twisting their hands in at the end of the stroke, breaking knees a fraction before starting their forward lean, under-compressing (though that appears to be a last few strokes trait), arms not pulling in parallel and arms not parallel to the floor.
It seems to me that being 6' 19" tall and having the lungs of an ox are more important than perfect technique (oh, and lycra, lots of lycra!)
It seems to me that being 6' 19" tall and having the lungs of an ox are more important than perfect technique (oh, and lycra, lots of lycra!)
60 yrs old, 82kg, 5' 10"
43Mm metres rowed. Re-setting the bar much lower now. Getting too old and brittle for this malarky
43Mm metres rowed. Re-setting the bar much lower now. Getting too old and brittle for this malarky
- gregsmith01748
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Re: Video Analysis Thread (post em here!)
For a one minute video, could I suggest that you get your girlfriend to film you? It could help you bond as a couple. Who knows where that could leaddr3do wrote: I have to figure out some sort of fixed mount for my smartphone. I hopefully will then get some useful analysis of you guys/gals. [-o<
Or perhaps your downstairs neighbor would like to help out?
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Re: Video Analysis Thread (post em here!)
I can just imagine how that conversation will gogregsmith01748 wrote:Or perhaps your downstairs neighbor would like to help out?
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Re: Video Analysis Thread (post em here!)
Since I can only keep one thing in my brain (and that's a maximum, not a guaranteed capacity), faster hands away is the one thing that I am really focusing on.Grobi wrote:Greg, you might want to get your hands forward a bit quicker. It's not a big deal while OTE, but as I know that you row OTW too, it would help there a lot (unless you're having "quick hands" otw anyway and this is only an erg thing, then just forget my posting )
He's a video of me today after spending 120 minutes trying to do it better. I moved my feet down one hole. I agree about the shins past vertical, but I'm going to fix my hands first. Oh god, it's humiliating to see my gut on display like that.
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Re: Video Analysis Thread (post em here!)
Greg & Mardix:mardix wrote:I can just imagine how that conversation will gogregsmith01748 wrote:Or perhaps your downstairs neighbor would like to help out?
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Re: Video Analysis Thread (post em here!)
I was obsessing about how bad my rowing looked in the videos that I posted and I was really puzzled by why I could see no real lean forward even though it felt like I was doing it while I was rowing. Then it stuck me. I'm actually not as fat as I look in the video! It's really that my posture sucks! I am really slumped over and my back is very curved at the catch. It also explained my hand position. My hands weren't too high, my chest was too low!
The reason I don't see layback or lean forward is that the bottom of my back (and my hips) are a not moving. All the movement is coming in the middle of my spine. With that in mind, I decided that the best coaching advice for me would be remember what I always heard in junior high.
"Sit up Straight!"
"Stop Slouching"
"Suck in your gut"
Did I mention that it was not a very nurturing environment?
So, I tried to keep that in mind today and, woo boy, was it hard. It was like writing with my left hand or trying breath on the wrong side when swimming the crawl. Entirely unnatural. But effective. I could sequence the recovery better. It was more taxing from a CV perspective since I wasn't used to it, but I think it's the right adjustment.
What do you think?
The reason I don't see layback or lean forward is that the bottom of my back (and my hips) are a not moving. All the movement is coming in the middle of my spine. With that in mind, I decided that the best coaching advice for me would be remember what I always heard in junior high.
"Sit up Straight!"
"Stop Slouching"
"Suck in your gut"
Did I mention that it was not a very nurturing environment?
So, I tried to keep that in mind today and, woo boy, was it hard. It was like writing with my left hand or trying breath on the wrong side when swimming the crawl. Entirely unnatural. But effective. I could sequence the recovery better. It was more taxing from a CV perspective since I wasn't used to it, but I think it's the right adjustment.
What do you think?
Greg - Age: 53 H: 182cm W: 88Kg (should be 83Kg)
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Re: Video Analysis Thread (post em here!)
Apart from a little overcompressing at the catch this looks almost perfect to me. Hands are much quicker now!
Maybe you want to work on higher elbows at the end of the drive now? Sorry to bother, but you asked for comments
Maybe you want to work on higher elbows at the end of the drive now? Sorry to bother, but you asked for comments
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Re: Video Analysis Thread (post em here!)
I find you're amazing fast/hard trying to do it better. Kudos!gregsmith01748 wrote:What do you think?
For my little knowledge it looks much much better! Still the timing issue (releasing knees before lean forward with hip as pivot), but it's a good way. Overcompression is only very little - would give it a lower priority then the lean forward timing).
Your powerful leg drive is
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Re: Video Analysis Thread (post em here!)
Peter, Boris: Thank you both for your quick and helpful comments. I wouldn't post the video if I didn't want to hear the feedback, and I appreciate all the suggestions. I only hope that you all don't get frustrated with me posting all this footage.
One thing that I noticed with this new "style" is that I noticed an uncomfortable feeling on my sitz bones and I levered forward. I suspect that is why I had regressed to the the slumpy style. It's hard to describe the feeling, but I can feel a pressure/rubbing/grinding between my sitz bones and the seat as I swing my back into position during recovery. I may have to try the C2 pad with the cutouts for the sitz bones. I bet this could get painful after a while.
One thing that I noticed with this new "style" is that I noticed an uncomfortable feeling on my sitz bones and I levered forward. I suspect that is why I had regressed to the the slumpy style. It's hard to describe the feeling, but I can feel a pressure/rubbing/grinding between my sitz bones and the seat as I swing my back into position during recovery. I may have to try the C2 pad with the cutouts for the sitz bones. I bet this could get painful after a while.
Greg - Age: 53 H: 182cm W: 88Kg (should be 83Kg)
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Re: Video Analysis Thread (post em here!)
From my point: Not at all, Greg! Really. Don't worry.gregsmith01748 wrote:I wouldn't post the video if I didn't want to hear the feedback, and I appreciate all the suggestions. I only hope that you all don't get frustrated with me posting all this footage.
This pad (they offer two different versions, we have the thicker one) is very nice. My GF uses it.gregsmith01748 wrote:I may have to try the C2 pad with the cutouts for the sitz bones. I bet this could get painful after a while.
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Re: Video Analysis Thread (post em here!)
Good idea, but when im sitting on the me(n)tal mistress, I have no mood for…gregsmith01748 wrote:For a one minute video, could I suggest that you get your girlfriend to film you? It could help you bond as a couple. Who knows where that could lead
I tought, I could use my old "smartphone holder windshield ", but I doesn't work as the "angle of adjustment" is not flexible enough.
So we did in the late afternoon an handhold testdrive - it seems not to be too shaky. But I wore my black long sleeve shirt, was erging in front of the white wall and it was already not enough light.
Hopefully tomorrow (or day after tomorrow) it will work.
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Re: Video Analysis Thread (post em here!)
Greg, I've only just looked at the videos now. On the early ones, I agree with the comments that you were slightly over compressing. There was also a noticeable pause at the end of the drive, particularly at lower ratings. Overall, I thought your stroke looked more smooth at the higher ratings. There was also at times a slight downward movement in the handle at the beginning of the return.
All of the above were a lot better in the most recent video.
By the way, if you are concerned about having a gut, wait until you see my video (if I ever get round to putting it up here).
All of the above were a lot better in the most recent video.
By the way, if you are concerned about having a gut, wait until you see my video (if I ever get round to putting it up here).
M 68 6'1" 124kg (May05), 92kg (Feb06), 122kg (Aug10), 95kg (Sep11), 117kg (Jun13), now 98kg
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Re: Video Analysis Thread (post em here!)
Greg, Paul: You feel ashamed about your gut or whatever? Well… wait till I post my "Hunchback of me(n)tal mistress" video.Paul Victory wrote:By the way, if you are concerned about having a gut, wait until you see my video (if I ever get round to putting it up here).
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Re: Video Analysis Thread (post em here!)
As we are not familiar with video stuff, we maybe had chosen a wrong setting (sport mode) in the camera app… before upload to YouTube the result was "wishy-washy" and had dropouts.
The other thing is, I was extreme nervous… so my erging did not feel like usual at all; couldn't find my peace, pace and flow at all.
Possibly this video is "good enough" to get some critique to work on?
The other thing is, I was extreme nervous… so my erging did not feel like usual at all; couldn't find my peace, pace and flow at all.
Possibly this video is "good enough" to get some critique to work on?
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Re: Video Analysis Thread (post em here!)
Just looked at the videos of Greg and Boris. Greg, you're not fat! Your stroke does look a little better in the "improved" video but there's not much wrong with it that I can see. The over-compression some have mentioned is very slight if there at all. Low rate there is a pause at the finish but as others have observed that seems to disappear as the rating goes up.
Boris. Try to keep your head straight. Your hands also dip very low toward the catch. Your legs on the other hand, seem much smoother--shins vertical at the catch and good contact with the footplate. You might want to try some "arms only" rowing before each session to correct this issue emphasising keeping your head up and not allowing the chain to dip so low. This technique video is very good:http://indoorsportservices.co.uk/traini ... ique_video.
Boris. Try to keep your head straight. Your hands also dip very low toward the catch. Your legs on the other hand, seem much smoother--shins vertical at the catch and good contact with the footplate. You might want to try some "arms only" rowing before each session to correct this issue emphasising keeping your head up and not allowing the chain to dip so low. This technique video is very good:http://indoorsportservices.co.uk/traini ... ique_video.
54 years old probably around 77kg.