1000 metre training
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- webberg
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1000 metre training
I've been asked to help my local gym put together a plan for training a group to improve their 1k time over a month.
The idea is that this weekend a benchmark time is posted and during August, we see how far we can reduce it.
Sprinting is not my thing at all and finding time for 5+ sessions a week is unlikely. Therefore I am looking at 3 sessions a week on the following pattern.
200 x 6 r 30
500 x 3 r 30
3k
2nd week reduces the rest by 10 secs, another reduction in week 3
Any thoughts or help appreciated.
I did wonder about putting in a 1k each week as well but that could be a double edged sword.
Thanks
The idea is that this weekend a benchmark time is posted and during August, we see how far we can reduce it.
Sprinting is not my thing at all and finding time for 5+ sessions a week is unlikely. Therefore I am looking at 3 sessions a week on the following pattern.
200 x 6 r 30
500 x 3 r 30
3k
2nd week reduces the rest by 10 secs, another reduction in week 3
Any thoughts or help appreciated.
I did wonder about putting in a 1k each week as well but that could be a double edged sword.
Thanks
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- hewitt
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Re: 1000 metre training
Before you start any hard sprint training just make sure there technique is ok ot you will have a lot of unhappy people with bad backs .
6x1min with 1min rest is always a good one.
30sec on 30sec off is already set in the monitor settings.
Just be careful not to overdo the sprint training so 3 times a week would probably be ok.
6x1min with 1min rest is always a good one.
30sec on 30sec off is already set in the monitor settings.
Just be careful not to overdo the sprint training so 3 times a week would probably be ok.
Everybody has a plan until they get a punch in the face.
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Re: 1000 metre training
Good luck with that one, Grahamhewitt wrote:Before you start any hard sprint training just make sure there technique is ok ot you will have a lot of unhappy people with bad backs .
6x1min with 1min rest is always a good one.
30sec on 30sec off is already set in the monitor settings.
Just be careful not to overdo the sprint training so 3 times a week would probably be ok.
Yes, some excellent advice from Jason
If done 100% a 1k can be very, very taxing for the body, so if I had to go through it I wouldn´t do any 1ks during the training period...
Old enough to know better - young enough to do it anyway
- webberg
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Re: 1000 metre training
very true Jason>
I've also found out that they want everybody to do this at "5" on the damper. that's around 120 drag.
Despite my attempts to explain that it will make no difference overall if people use what they want, they are not moving.
Therefore I predict high SPM's with consequent loss of technique and therefore risk of injury from about 500 onwards.
I had a go at the 200 x 6 today at this drag. Bearing in mind my complete lack of fitness I was looking at 2:05 average but achieved 1:56.7 which I think is more about technique than fitness.
First session with a group is Tuesday evening.
Wish me luck.
I've also found out that they want everybody to do this at "5" on the damper. that's around 120 drag.
Despite my attempts to explain that it will make no difference overall if people use what they want, they are not moving.
Therefore I predict high SPM's with consequent loss of technique and therefore risk of injury from about 500 onwards.
I had a go at the 200 x 6 today at this drag. Bearing in mind my complete lack of fitness I was looking at 2:05 average but achieved 1:56.7 which I think is more about technique than fitness.
First session with a group is Tuesday evening.
Wish me luck.
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- hewitt
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Re: 1000 metre training
I do ever session at 129 drag so not such a bad thing. But then again I am 6 foot 3 and a super HWT.
3x500m with 1min rest at predicted finish pace for the 1k would be an interesting session.
3x500m with 1min rest at predicted finish pace for the 1k would be an interesting session.
Everybody has a plan until they get a punch in the face.
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Re: 1000 metre training
The issue of drag and its impact on SPM could probably fill several pages here.
Jason, is your SPM high?
I normally row at a drag of around 135 (about mid 7 on the machines I use). My SPM averages 26/27.
Trying yesterday to row at drag 120 for a quick(ish) time, had my SPM at 30 and above. To be honest I'm not sure that I could row at that SPM for close on 4 minutes.
Perhaps my SPM is low but I have always assumed that taller rowers use relatively slow SPM, relying upon leverage for the acceleration in the first 20cm or so of the stroke and that shorter (generally lighter) rowers tend to stroke faster in order to compensate for the unavoidable physics of leverage.
Be interesting to see the group tonight.
Jason, is your SPM high?
I normally row at a drag of around 135 (about mid 7 on the machines I use). My SPM averages 26/27.
Trying yesterday to row at drag 120 for a quick(ish) time, had my SPM at 30 and above. To be honest I'm not sure that I could row at that SPM for close on 4 minutes.
Perhaps my SPM is low but I have always assumed that taller rowers use relatively slow SPM, relying upon leverage for the acceleration in the first 20cm or so of the stroke and that shorter (generally lighter) rowers tend to stroke faster in order to compensate for the unavoidable physics of leverage.
Be interesting to see the group tonight.
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Re: 1000 metre training
I have been doing lots of low rate training lately because I am doing weights at the same time. Not done anything over r23 for a couple of months. Managed a 17:55.5 for a 5k at r22 last week at 129 drag. I think DF is just something that you can adapt to. The rowers in the gym only have a max drag of about 98 but I can still hold 1:50 pace for a 5k r20 on them. Its strange.webberg wrote: Jason, is your SPM high?
.
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Re: 1000 metre training
98 drag?
We have three (model E's) in the gym and they top out around 185.
17:55 for 5k is an impossible dream for me.
I did try to do a program to get my 5k under 20 minutes. I think it was a 12 week cycle of the usual short and long intervals and longer pieces. Unfortunately work intervened and I never finished it. I did get to about 20:12 or something close but it was a struggle.
I've also neglected the rower since having a few shoulder issues last year. Those are hopefully fixed now and I'm getting back into it but getting to where I was say 2 years ago is probably a good 9 months off.
hence this challenge to not only talk the talk, but walk the walk. [-o<
We have three (model E's) in the gym and they top out around 185.
17:55 for 5k is an impossible dream for me.
I did try to do a program to get my 5k under 20 minutes. I think it was a 12 week cycle of the usual short and long intervals and longer pieces. Unfortunately work intervened and I never finished it. I did get to about 20:12 or something close but it was a struggle.
I've also neglected the rower since having a few shoulder issues last year. Those are hopefully fixed now and I'm getting back into it but getting to where I was say 2 years ago is probably a good 9 months off.
hence this challenge to not only talk the talk, but walk the walk. [-o<
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- gregsmith01748
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Re: 1000 metre training
Hi,webberg wrote:I've been asked to help my local gym put together a plan for training a group to improve their 1k time over a month.
The idea is that this weekend a benchmark time is posted and during August, we see how far we can reduce it.
Sprinting is not my thing at all and finding time for 5+ sessions a week is unlikely. Therefore I am looking at 3 sessions a week on the following pattern.
200 x 6 r 30
500 x 3 r 30
3k
2nd week reduces the rest by 10 secs, another reduction in week 3
Any thoughts or help appreciated.
I did wonder about putting in a 1k each week as well but that could be a double edged sword.
Thanks
I would suggest that you work with longer rests and a few more reps. Sessions like
6x500 /2' rest
12 x 250 / 1' rest
I like Jason's suggestion of using the 30"/30"
You can cut down rest during the month, but getting high quality reps at high power throughout the workout will be key to developing power at higher stroke rates.
Just my opinion.
Greg - Age: 53 H: 182cm W: 88Kg (should be 83Kg)
Training blog: https://quantifiedrowing.wordpress.com/
Training blog: https://quantifiedrowing.wordpress.com/
- webberg
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Re: 1000 metre training
Thanks for the input.
Seems that intervals are the way to go.
Jason likes 6 x 1m r 1m and 30/30
Greg seems to like going longer.
I think I'll combine them with
12 x 250 r 1
6 x 1m r 1m (x2)
6 x 500 r 2
Seems that intervals are the way to go.
Jason likes 6 x 1m r 1m and 30/30
Greg seems to like going longer.
I think I'll combine them with
12 x 250 r 1
6 x 1m r 1m (x2)
6 x 500 r 2
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- hewitt
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Re: 1000 metre training
That looks like a winner there. =D>webberg wrote:.
I think I'll combine them with
12 x 250 r 1
6 x 1m r 1m (x2)
6 x 500 r 2
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Re: 1000 metre training
Perhaps, but I'm an idiot.
12 x 250 r 1 and 12 x 1m r 1 are pretty much the same.
I did the 12 x 250 yesterday and each rep was around a minute. Perhaps in a few weeks it will be closer to 55 seconds, but in context that makes no difference.
So I'll change it a bit
12 x 250 r 1
6 x 500 r 2
4 x 750 r 2
I did look at the video that was posted and tried to apply some of that to the session yesterday. I think it really helped. The coach there was saying that the recovery is just that, so relax and rest. I think I was also over reaching at the catch and as the coach said, if the shins are beyond 90%, the first movement is up and not back and as such that vital first drive is diminished.
First training group tonight.
12 x 250 r 1 and 12 x 1m r 1 are pretty much the same.
I did the 12 x 250 yesterday and each rep was around a minute. Perhaps in a few weeks it will be closer to 55 seconds, but in context that makes no difference.
So I'll change it a bit
12 x 250 r 1
6 x 500 r 2
4 x 750 r 2
I did look at the video that was posted and tried to apply some of that to the session yesterday. I think it really helped. The coach there was saying that the recovery is just that, so relax and rest. I think I was also over reaching at the catch and as the coach said, if the shins are beyond 90%, the first movement is up and not back and as such that vital first drive is diminished.
First training group tonight.
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Re: 1000 metre training
That depends who you are. I can get 320m in a minute on that session.webberg wrote: 12 x 250 r 1 and 12 x 1m r 1 are pretty much the same.
.
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Re: 1000 metre training
Jason, I have no doubt you can.
What I get in a minute is about 265 at the moment. If I add 10% to that over a month I'd be more than extremely happy.
The group I have has no experienced rowers although they have all used the machines (probably poorly) before.
Of course, if you're offering to come to the South and demonstrate....?
What I get in a minute is about 265 at the moment. If I add 10% to that over a month I'd be more than extremely happy.
The group I have has no experienced rowers although they have all used the machines (probably poorly) before.
Of course, if you're offering to come to the South and demonstrate....?
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Re: 1000 metre training
Took my first group of 8 yesterday for the 1k challenge.
Stealing unashamedly from the video posted on this site, I took them through the basic drills of the technique and then set them off for 10 minutes each.
results were mixed. Some are obviously very fit but have no technique at all and the drills may have helped a little but no real evidence. Others obviously took on board the drills and the right method because I told them to focus on getting it right rather than going fast, they will be all the better for it eventually.
After an analysis for each one and completion of the 10 minutes, I had them do another 10 minutes. Results were better all round and I think they all felt and saw an improvement.
As fortune has it, towards the end we were joined by a guy who I know rows locally (Guildford) and who (I found out later) was taught to row at University. He has great technique, good power, is young, fit, tall, (I know - everybody over 50 hates him already) and he, in 10 minutes, comfortably did way more than anybody in our group. It did though show people what can be done.
I think it went OK overall.
There is a problem in that I had no time left to row myself!
Stealing unashamedly from the video posted on this site, I took them through the basic drills of the technique and then set them off for 10 minutes each.
results were mixed. Some are obviously very fit but have no technique at all and the drills may have helped a little but no real evidence. Others obviously took on board the drills and the right method because I told them to focus on getting it right rather than going fast, they will be all the better for it eventually.
After an analysis for each one and completion of the 10 minutes, I had them do another 10 minutes. Results were better all round and I think they all felt and saw an improvement.
As fortune has it, towards the end we were joined by a guy who I know rows locally (Guildford) and who (I found out later) was taught to row at University. He has great technique, good power, is young, fit, tall, (I know - everybody over 50 hates him already) and he, in 10 minutes, comfortably did way more than anybody in our group. It did though show people what can be done.
I think it went OK overall.
There is a problem in that I had no time left to row myself!
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Re: 1000 metre training
My training group met again yesterday.
There are some impressive improvements (I suspect that some have done some homework) and some questions about technique etc that had me totally lost.
All of them have improved markedly.
One young man (age 20, 6'2", 80 kgs) was last week a bit like Pinocchio with the strings cut. This week on his second attempt, 3:23.9 for 1k. He was breathing very hard at the end but his technique was sloppy and I reckon he could be pushing 3:10 with the right coaching and a bit more practice. That places him top 10 for this season and top 100 for last season.
My own performance is weak in comparison, but I'm going to record them here as a bit of personal inspiration:
29/7/13 - 12 x 250 - av 1.59.1
5/8/13 - 12 x 250 - av 1.57.2
31/7/13 - 6 x 500 - av 1.58.9
4/8/13 - 4 x 750 - FAIL
There are some impressive improvements (I suspect that some have done some homework) and some questions about technique etc that had me totally lost.
All of them have improved markedly.
One young man (age 20, 6'2", 80 kgs) was last week a bit like Pinocchio with the strings cut. This week on his second attempt, 3:23.9 for 1k. He was breathing very hard at the end but his technique was sloppy and I reckon he could be pushing 3:10 with the right coaching and a bit more practice. That places him top 10 for this season and top 100 for last season.
My own performance is weak in comparison, but I'm going to record them here as a bit of personal inspiration:
29/7/13 - 12 x 250 - av 1.59.1
5/8/13 - 12 x 250 - av 1.57.2
31/7/13 - 6 x 500 - av 1.58.9
4/8/13 - 4 x 750 - FAIL
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- hewitt
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Re: 1000 metre training
Those 4x750s are killers on the mind and the body webberg. I hate doing the 750 reps.
Everybody has a plan until they get a punch in the face.
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Re: 1000 metre training
Jason, I agree.
I think I was defeated before I even started.
The previous day I did a spin class and my heart rate was a good 10 - 15 over what it should have been and I wondered if I was coming down with something. (In fact I suspect that the few glasses of a very nice red the night before was the main cause).
On Sunday I left it late for the gym, went in at 2:45pm and they close at 4pm. So felt a bit rushed. Heart rate in the warm up climbed very quickly to 160+ (normally 145 or so). The machine didn't feel right either. So I started - HD - started - HD - started - gave up.
Did a few metres just to save face. Tried an uphill walk on the treadmill = FAIL.
Went to the sauna and felt sorry for myself.
Back on track yesterday though. 6 x 500 tomorrow (physio today).
Thinking about strategy for the next 750 set (Friday perhaps or Sunday). I think hard out for 150, settle and hang in for 500 and then go for it.
remember a quote from one of the racing teams when asked about how to do a quick 2k.
"Go out fast, pick it up in the middle, sprint to the end".
Probably still good advice.
I think I was defeated before I even started.
The previous day I did a spin class and my heart rate was a good 10 - 15 over what it should have been and I wondered if I was coming down with something. (In fact I suspect that the few glasses of a very nice red the night before was the main cause).
On Sunday I left it late for the gym, went in at 2:45pm and they close at 4pm. So felt a bit rushed. Heart rate in the warm up climbed very quickly to 160+ (normally 145 or so). The machine didn't feel right either. So I started - HD - started - HD - started - gave up.
Did a few metres just to save face. Tried an uphill walk on the treadmill = FAIL.
Went to the sauna and felt sorry for myself.
Back on track yesterday though. 6 x 500 tomorrow (physio today).
Thinking about strategy for the next 750 set (Friday perhaps or Sunday). I think hard out for 150, settle and hang in for 500 and then go for it.
remember a quote from one of the racing teams when asked about how to do a quick 2k.
"Go out fast, pick it up in the middle, sprint to the end".
Probably still good advice.
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Re: 1000 metre training
Good advice for 750s. 4-6 hard strokes to get under predicted pace then sprint the last 100-200 to dip under pace.
Everybody has a plan until they get a punch in the face.
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Re: 1000 metre training
Latest results.
29/7/13 - 12 x 250 - av 1.59.1
5/8/13 - 12 x 250 - av 1.57.2
31/7/13 - 6 x 500 - av 1.58.9
8/8/13 - 8 x 500 - av 2:01.1*
4/8/13 - 4 x 750 - FAIL
*This was for the CTC and a mix f 20/30 stroke rates.
Hard but thought I could go quicker free rating.
another attempt at the 750's on Sunday.
One of the training group did 3:19.1 yesterday
29/7/13 - 12 x 250 - av 1.59.1
5/8/13 - 12 x 250 - av 1.57.2
31/7/13 - 6 x 500 - av 1.58.9
8/8/13 - 8 x 500 - av 2:01.1*
4/8/13 - 4 x 750 - FAIL
*This was for the CTC and a mix f 20/30 stroke rates.
Hard but thought I could go quicker free rating.
another attempt at the 750's on Sunday.
One of the training group did 3:19.1 yesterday
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Re: 1000 metre training
I officially hate 4 x 750 3r. Did this at a free rate with a quick start and finish and tried to cruise through the middle. The first 2 were acceptable at 1.58 and change. The third I blew up with 150 to go and the fourth was a sea of pain.
29/7/13 - 12 x 250 - av 1.59.1
5/8/13 - 12 x 250 - av 1.57.2
31/7/13 - 6 x 500 - av 1.58.9
8/8/13 - 8 x 500 - av 2:01.1*
4/8/13 - 4 x 750 - FAIL
12/8/13 - 4 x 750 - 2.00.4
My training group are going well though. Some of the guys well into 3.40 territory. The ladies improve with a couple going sub 4 minutes.
29/7/13 - 12 x 250 - av 1.59.1
5/8/13 - 12 x 250 - av 1.57.2
31/7/13 - 6 x 500 - av 1.58.9
8/8/13 - 8 x 500 - av 2:01.1*
4/8/13 - 4 x 750 - FAIL
12/8/13 - 4 x 750 - 2.00.4
My training group are going well though. Some of the guys well into 3.40 territory. The ladies improve with a couple going sub 4 minutes.
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Re: 1000 metre training
Yesterday.
29/7/13 - 12 x 250 - av 1.59.1
5/8/13 - 12 x 250 - av 1.57.2
14/8/13 - 12 x 250 - av 1.55.7
31/7/13 - 6 x 500 - av 1.58.9
8/8/13 - 8 x 500 - av 2:01.1*
4/8/13 - 4 x 750 - FAIL
12/8/13 - 4 x 750 - 2.00.4
The latest 12 x 250 went pretty well. The first 4 were an average of around 1.48 pace.
Given my PB for this distance is around 3.53, feeling confident I might improve that in a couple of weeks.
29/7/13 - 12 x 250 - av 1.59.1
5/8/13 - 12 x 250 - av 1.57.2
14/8/13 - 12 x 250 - av 1.55.7
31/7/13 - 6 x 500 - av 1.58.9
8/8/13 - 8 x 500 - av 2:01.1*
4/8/13 - 4 x 750 - FAIL
12/8/13 - 4 x 750 - 2.00.4
The latest 12 x 250 went pretty well. The first 4 were an average of around 1.48 pace.
Given my PB for this distance is around 3.53, feeling confident I might improve that in a couple of weeks.
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