2k pacing question

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millie
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2k pacing question

Post by millie »

I'm planning on doing my first OTE 2k TT in the next couple of weeks. I've done a few 2k races OTW but I mostly race over 1k as I'm a master. Based on my 500m and 1k PBs set in the past couple of weeks, plus the couple of Pete Plan sessions done over the past week (below) I'm thinking 1:53 pace is achievable. What do you think? In terms of strategy I was planning on doing:

800m @ 1:54
600m @ 1:53
400m @ 1:52
200m @ 1:51

Would be very appreciative of any thoughts / advice! Thanks!

(I used the FS pace predictor calculator which I guess is based on 'Paul's law' and based on 1k and 500m times it predicted 1:51.9 but I think this is a bit quick for me - I am certain my 1k is relatively stronger than my 2k will be as I predominantly race and train OTW for 1k and I don't think my endurance is great)

8x500m / 1:30 rest (done last Friday)
Average: 1:53.2 @ 31
1. 1:54.1 @ 31
2. 1:53.4 @ 30
3. 1:53.5 @ 30
4. 1:53.2 @ 30
5. 1:53.3 @ 32
6. 1:53.1 @ 31
7. 1:53.3 @ 32
8. 1:52.1 @ 34

4x1000m / 5' rest (done today, after a 45' OTW session including sprints and a hard 1500m)
Average: 1:53.6 @ 31
1. 1:54.4 @ 30
2. 1:53.6 @ 31
3. 1:53.1 @ 32
4. 1:53.2 @ 33
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Gary Dakin
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Re: 2k pacing question

Post by Gary Dakin »

Hi Millie,
I'm not sure how much notice you take of the rankings on the C2 website, but your suggestions as to pace would put you well inside the top 20 in the submitted rankings across the world for this season for your category. I'm sure everyone would be extremely excited by this should you achieve it. Also anything inside 7m 54s in your category is considered above 90th percentile......pretty good by anyone's standards.
I have to say your interval achievements are pretty amazing anyway, so I have no doubt you will do something exceptional.
My own view is that, because you are new to 2K, I would be cautious. Negative splitting is hard, but can be very productive and confidence boosting if it works. The ranking season doesn't finish until the end of April, by which time you will have had several more attempts. 2k and 1k are as different as chalk and cheese, and physiologically make very different demands on your body and mind.
So, I would advise you to row a first 2k not flat out, get a good time (whatever that is), don't risk a handle down by being too aspirational/ambitious and then build on it.

1m 54s all the way will bring you in at 7m 36s, so speeding up at some point will get you closer to 7m 30s
The recent English championship in your category was won in 7m 35s!!!!!!
The British Champs in 2012 was won in 7m 35.xs!!!!!!
The same time would have got you in the top 10 at the world Crash Bs in Boston this year.
Potentially, without an actual 2K row, you are a major championship medal contender.

Good luck!!

Gary
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Re: 2k pacing question

Post by billwright »

Millie

In the same vein as Gary, get one in before an all out assault. It's a bit like Field Athletic events where you can have three "no jumps/no throws" and you're out of the competition. So go for a time based around the 1:54 splits but save the reduction for the last 10/20 strokes when you empty the tanks.

If that goes to plan, you'll be full of confidence (after you've picked yourself up from the heap on the floor :lol: ) and ready in about another week for the all out assault. That's the time for the serious negative splitting and the furious finish. You'll have experienced part of the journey already and can tell yourself in those closing stages that it is possible.

You will find that as you near the end of the final 500m your power will drop. At this stage, you should (must in my case) up the stroke rate and you need to practice this again and again to get consistent results.

I hope that that's useful and complementary to Gary's sound advice.

Bill :fswink: :fswink:
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millie
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Re: 2k pacing question

Post by millie »

Gary Dakin wrote:So, I would advise you to row a first 2k not flat out, get a good time (whatever that is), don't risk a handle down by being too aspirational/ambitious and then build on it.
This sounds like very good advice - think I will try a 2k soon (this week) around 1:54/1:55 pace so I have a good idea how it feels. Sure 2k OTE feels different to OTW too.
And Bill thanks for the tip about stroke rate - I expect I'll be the same and need to whack the rate up.
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Re: 2k pacing question

Post by Grobi »

Hi Amanda,
millie wrote:(I used the FS pace predictor calculator which I guess is based on 'Paul's law' and based on 1k and 500m times it predicted 1:51.9 but I think this is a bit quick for me
I wouldn't say that. You have done a 4x1k session at 1:53.6 pace. The 4x1k is said to be done at 2k+1 pace, so you should/could do a 2k at 1:52.6. Additionally you weren't fresh when you did that session which surely cost you some tenths of a second. So I don't think 1:51.9 pace for a 2k is completely out of reach for you.

Apart from that I second Gary's and Bill's advice of doing a non flat out test beforehand.
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Re: 2k pacing question

Post by Thomas W-P »

I like your pace plan and often aim to do my 2ks that way since you are not ahead of target place until 1,400m in. I do do a very fast first 50m though which makes it look a little lopsided but once I am under way I aim to hit an 800/600/400/200 plan like yours.
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Re: 2k pacing question

Post by damian.griffin »

Millie, I can only talk from my limited experience in comparison to many on this forum.

My current and successful TT pacing has run like this -

Good start - half, three quarter, full pull

Strong 10-15 strokes before settling to my agreed race pace. My cruising pace would be 1-2 secs off my target overall av/500m. At 300-250m to go I empty the tank and ensure I am still at full speed for 0m

Eg Irish indoors

Start as described
Cruise pace 1:35/1:136
300 out - sprint

Overall finished 1:33.7 pace!!

This plan has worked for me in the 1 and only time I attempted. Know your plan and stick to it
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millie
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Re: 2k pacing question

Post by millie »

Thanks so much for all your comments and encouragement guys. I had a first go this morning and thanks to all your advice I felt pretty prepared, confident, and knew what my plan was. Taking on board many of the comments, my plan was to do a '95%' 2k TT so I got some experience over the distance and could finish! I reckoned that 1:55 pace would be a comfortable pace, plan was to keep pace as steady as possible and just try to get used to doing a 2k rather than a 1k!

Total: 7:39.2 @ 30spm, average pace 1:54.8

Splits:
400m 1:55.5 29
800m 1:55.0 30
1200m 1:55.0 30
1600m 1:54.7 30
2000m 1:53.7 32

Planning another go in about a week and guess target will be 1:54 pace this time and aiming for 31-32 spm. Damian I think you must have a much better sprint than me as I don't think there is any way I could finish with a split a couple of seconds below cruising pace - I just don't think I could make that much up in the last 500m or so! I think the key for me is going to be cruising at a steady pace and trying to conserve energy! I tried to pick it up in the last 250m or so once I knew I was home and hosed, but my legs were less responsive than I hoped they'd be!

It's a long way though :fsgrin:
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Re: 2k pacing question

Post by billwright »

Great stuff Millie. The pick up in SR in the last 400m was worth is as it dropped your split by one second. =D> =D> .

One of the essentials in those closing metres when you're going for the big finish (and I'm sure that you're aware of this from your OTW experience) is to hold your form. Many people get into the "sprint' section, whether it's 500m or some lesser distance, and start to flail. Their own perception is that they're going faster but in effect they're just working harder for no real gain. What happens in the effort to increase the stroke rate is that the stroke gets shorter and you cover less distance per stroke. I know as I've been guilty of just that and witnessed it at competitions in the past.

That's not the situation in your case but as a pointer in those closing metres concentrate on making a full stroke even though the SR has increased. Your legs will stand the strain (and the pain. :lol: ).

I reckon that 7:30 is within (relatively 8) ) easy reach for you.

Bill :fswink: :fswink:
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Re: 2k pacing question

Post by AlanS »

Well done, millie. That looks like a very controlled effort. =D>

We'll see how chirpy you come across after a 100% effort. :fswink: :lol:
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Re: 2k pacing question

Post by Mike Channin »

I did a bit of research into the best way to pace a 2k a while back, and this is a quick summary:

If you know your exact performance level, then a completely flat split is the most efficient way (in energy terms) to hit it. However, in the 2k there is a lot about lactate accumulation, so there is a value in trying to minimise that in the early stages, leading to a 4 quarters plan of target +1 target+1 target target-2. This also has the advantage that if you get to 500m out when rowing behind target and are in a world of pain anyway, you can still get to the finish (whereas if you'd gone out hard, you might well be handling down).

If you're less sure of your form, a progressive negative split has the advantage of allowing you to adapt better to whatever you have that day. It probably won't give you the best outright time, but it is a lower risk strategy.

I was following something like this in my 2k PB in 2006 at BIRC. I came in at an unknown level of form, having overdone it a couple of weeks earlier on a 5k and been struggling to recover. My goal was to beat 6:40 (1:40 split) but I didn't know if I had it in me on the day, even though I'd had enough form recently. I did the first 800m at about 1:41, and was gradually dropping back from the big guy next to me, so I started to wind up a bit and pull the split down at 1:40. Got to about 600m out and suddenly realised that I _wasn't_ in any real pain, and that I had more left than I'd realised. Was on about 1:40.6 still on the average split, so decided to wind up for the last 500m. As I hit 500m, I upped pace to 1:35, and I still feel bad about the way the big guy next to me visibly slumped as I blew past him. 200m out and I was down to 1:30 and still not feeling anything much, so I went all out. Pretty certain that I was holding 1:23 for most of the last 200m, and rating 50. I passed 4 people in the last 400m. Finished in 6:39.2, so achieved the goal. I think Thomas had some of it on video if you want a laugh!

Not at all the most efficient pacing, and probably indicated I should have been on for a 6:36 if paced better, but certainly amused the spectators, and was a low risk and low pain way to go.

I agree with what Bill says about making sure that form stays fairly good as you up the rate. You can use the final sprint to clear out reserves wherever they are left by emphasising that part of the stroke more. The other thing to note is that you always have more left than you think, and despite many attempts I've never managed to pass out on the erg (one case of tunnel vision was the closest I got). And you can row the last 100m pretty much without breathing too.

One other point in competition racing is that I try not to go out too hard, because there is a fair risk of false starts (we had one in 2006), and it is far less soul-destroying if you're winding up gradually when stopped than if you've gone hell-for-leather and are leading the field. In a private timed piece there is no risk of a false start (or a slow one, for that matter), so use whatever suits you best.

Anyway, good luck! I'm sure you'll be great! (Your pacing plan looks like a good one, and covers much of the above, BTW)
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Re: 2k pacing question

Post by millie »

Thanks guys:

Bill - despite the OTW I still feel the power in my legs fading a bit towards the end - I tend to focus on just getting the rate up at the end whereas I should be focusing on using my legs (and getting the rate up!)

Alan - I think whether I'm chirpy or not after a flat out effort will depend on my time :wink:

Mike - thanks for the pacing info, I definitely think your slight negative splitting makes sense as getting to 1k and feeling pretty good is something I'll take a lot of confidence from, particularly as I'm still not 100% of my ability to red line a 2k... I can do it over 1k as I know the distance so well I know I can finish it! But 2k is a different story. I 'just' need to work on feeling I can up the pace at the 1k mark, rather than thinking 'oh s**t still another 1k to go!'. Doing more 2ks will obviously help with that!
And I liked your description of your 6:39.2 race - is the video up on the forum somewhere? I'm quite conservative by nature so I am definitely guilty of leaving too much in reserve - so I'll probably end up making small incremental improvements as I get comfortable I can hold a certain pace.
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Re: 2k pacing question

Post by Thomas W-P »

Well done, nice row. I'll be interested in how the maximal goes.
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Re: 2k pacing question

Post by BJS »

Great job, Millie. The submaximal 2k was a great idea. You know what you can do know. Just have to do it :-)
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Re: 2k pacing question

Post by Mike Channin »

Thomas - is any of the video stuff still around. I think the 2006 BIRC one was on YouTube, but possibly private.

Wolfie is a good person to talk to about the 2k, as he did a set of specific work to banish the demons, and cracked the mental aspect of it. I definitely plan to follow his advice if I get serious about 2k specific training again.
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