Comrades Marathon

A forum for discussing training programmes, indoor racing, things that work for you, coaching etc.

Moderator: The forum police - (nee naw)

Post Reply
paulgould
Super Dedicated and Truly Free Spirit
Posts: 2839
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:40 am
I row on...: Model D with PM3
Location: Ryde, IOW

Post by paulgould »

Thanks for the welcome WebberG.
It looks like our PB's are remarkably similar across all the distances - I will put mine in when I have figured out how!

Mike - thanks for updating the Sahara Marathon details - we have our own extreme running event here in SA which is the Comrades Marathon - 90 extremely hilly kilometres to be completed in 12 hours which I used to partake in when I was young, fit and stupid.
I will try and incorporate it into an extreme challenge later on in the year if there is any interest.
BTW I had a go at the 4km CTC challenge this morning - posted a far from impressive 16:29 but a posting nonetheless.
User avatar
Mike Channin
Super Dedicated and Truly Free Spirit
Posts: 2481
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:52 pm
I row on...: Model C with PM4

Post by Mike Channin »

Cheers Paul, Not certain why I was dopey enough not to put the full details in originally (unless it was a cunning plan to make sure no one tried it, and therefore that I didn't have to). And thanks from the team for posting a CTC time too.

The Comrades sounds interesting. 90k in a short time is tough, but I bet the hills are what makes it REALLY tough. Now how do you simulate that on an erg?

My first thought was by having splits and adjusting the damper up and down, but then different ergs have different intrinsic damper characteristics (and model B's have none at all) so that's not really fair.

Second thought was that this is similar to SteveTheSlug's ELM Summer Roller Coaster, so maybe that's a possibility.

Third idea is that it is split into 10k segments, and that the pacing of the segments is set to simulate hills, like this:
Segment 1 - flat - pace
Segment 2 - uphill - pace - 5
Segment 3 - downhill - pace + 5
Segment 4 - flat - pace
Segment 5 - uphill - pace - 5
Segment 6 - downhill - pace + 5
Segment 7 - uphill - pace -5
Segment 8 - flat - pace
Segment 9 - downhill - pace + 5

Problem is, how do you determine 'pace' and how do you handle if someone feels like going quicker on the downhills??

You can rest as long as you like between Segments, but the posted time must include all the breaks.

Anyone any ideas on how to improve this? Probably worth running a mini version of it first to check the feasibility of it.
Image
5'11", 50 - older, slower, greyer, fatter (and needs to update the sig times too)
User avatar
webberg
Super Dedicated and Truly Free Spirit
Posts: 2597
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:48 am
I row on...: Model D with PM3
Location: near Andover, Hants

Post by webberg »

Mike, you might want to look back at the Summer Roller Coaster that Paul Sims put up.

This was a longish piece (say 10k) followed after a 3 minute rest with a shorter piece, say 1500m.

The long piece was uphill and the short one downhill although I can tell you that it did not feel very downhill.

Presumably details are still around or Paul could recreate them. He is another IT type and probably has it all on a spreadsheet.
Uphill to the finish

ID 140904
PSims
True Free Spirit
Posts: 652
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:15 am
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Marlborough, Wiltshire

Slug's Coaster

Post by PSims »

Not guilty....that one belonged to Steve The Slug. Although I did create a spreadsheet of the details (but chickened out of actually doing it in the end!)

Details were:

(To be completed in pairs with 5 min rest between):

15,000m
1,500m

7,500m
1,000m

5,000m
500m

10,000m
2,000m

5,000m
2,500m

Hope that helps.
Paul
OK...Focus...Speed...I am...Speed

Image

Image
User avatar
webberg
Super Dedicated and Truly Free Spirit
Posts: 2597
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:48 am
I row on...: Model D with PM3
Location: near Andover, Hants

Post by webberg »

Note to self - always read the whole post.

I seem to have set off the Roller Coaster hare here - sorry folks.

How about an uphill session having to show splits for each 1k that are quicker than the previous one? :idea:

For example, first 1k in 4:20, next has to be less, say 4:18 and so on.

A downhill works the other way with each 1k being slower than the previous one.

This way each rower can chose their own initial pace for each segment. We don't need to mess with damper settings. The model D's can handle this via the monitor if set to 1k intervals. Not sure that earlier versions could though.

There would have to be a penalty if the sequence was broken. This could be the difference between what was needed and what was acheived, x 10. Therefore if the previous split on an uphill was 4:20 and you do 4:25, there is a 15 second penalty to add.

The next 1k segment would then have to be less than 4:25.

Downhills would have no penalty and would put pressure on the rower to judge his pace.

Putting on "just row" is not allowed. Have to set up the monitor for 10k and go otherwise pace management can be acheived by stopping at 980m until the "right" time was acheived.

Any thoughts :?:
Uphill to the finish

ID 140904
User avatar
Mike Channin
Super Dedicated and Truly Free Spirit
Posts: 2481
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:52 pm
I row on...: Model C with PM4

Post by Mike Channin »

Hmmm, increasing pace sounds an interesting idea, Graham, although I'm not certain I could face it at the end of a long series of 10k intervals. Mind you, that's the point, isn't it.

Sounds like we'll need to run up some mini versions of these to test out the theories. Maybe good for the new FS ELM league?
Image
5'11", 50 - older, slower, greyer, fatter (and needs to update the sig times too)
PSims
True Free Spirit
Posts: 652
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:15 am
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Marlborough, Wiltshire

Like...

Post by PSims »

Sounds simialr to a ramp test for finding max HR.
Be warned - it's a nasty test and hurts!
Paul
OK...Focus...Speed...I am...Speed

Image

Image
User avatar
Mike Channin
Super Dedicated and Truly Free Spirit
Posts: 2481
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:52 pm
I row on...: Model C with PM4

Post by Mike Channin »

Ah, the dreaded step test. Have to confess I've never actually had the nerve to try that one yet. Good for finding lactate threshold too if you have someone sampling your blood (a sports physician rather than count dracula)

There's also the bleep test they run at the SLIRC, where you do 1 minute intervals with 1 minute rest at decreasing splits (2 seconds quicker each time) til you pop. Very popular apparently. Maybe another ELM challenge in here... (now is that Extreme or normal?)

I see Graham has already created the Uphill Battle challenge in the new FS league. Will have to create similar rate change based and other paced variants to see how they feel. Might have to wait until after the race season has calmed down though. Don't want to deviate too much from my provisional 'Mike plan'. :lol:
Image
5'11", 50 - older, slower, greyer, fatter (and needs to update the sig times too)
User avatar
webberg
Super Dedicated and Truly Free Spirit
Posts: 2597
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:48 am
I row on...: Model D with PM3
Location: near Andover, Hants

Post by webberg »

Not only posted a challenge but also a time.

1k splits were 4:26.1. 4:24.2, 4:22.0, 4:18.8, and 4:15.6.

Ok not great times but no penalties.

Incredibly difficult to calculate whilst on the machine as the average per 500 time is not the one you need.

I suspect that with more practice I could get this to be below my present 5k PB.

Went beyond 5k in fact and the next 1k would have pulled doen a penalty.

have a go :P
Uphill to the finish

ID 140904
Post Reply