Longer more powerful strokes

[johnglynn]

I've been trying 3 new technique things recently over the last few weeks that seem to be giving me a boost.

1. Longer Catch (Hands/bar closer to the cage / (front of ERG) when fully compressed)
2. Higher Feet (Setting the foot levels to the highest they go, i.e. where people with tiny feet would normally set it)
3. Using my back (Using my back to generate force, instead of just using it as a static platform for my arms)

I would guess a number of our more experienced rowers are already doing these things, but I've only discovered them in the last few weeks

I've done only a very little testing with these new ideas, so I don't know accurately how much of a difference they provide

Also I'm on the very tall, strong and heavy side of things, so these MIGHT have no/little effects for smaller individuals (but I think they would)

Also not really a technique thing but the day before rowing a race, have a recovery session at 70% heart rate

[johnglynn]

1.

Thanks to the PSims, RollerCoster and 7day ELM long distance challenges, and Jlemons excellent meter board I've started rowing longer meters, (Half Marathon's every second weekend).

I've lost about 1-1.5 stone in the last 2 months as a result (I've reduced my diet a little also at the same time)

This has resulted in me losing a decent amount fat around my stomach

So I started to experiment with a longer catch (pushing my chest closer to legs) . I've found that really strecting was very hard, but it certainly made me faster BUT in tired me out much much quicker also.

The reason it's faster is that it makes the individual strokes longer, and more powerful

The problem is that strecthing to your max on each stroke really tires you out, BUT you will find that soon you gain a slightly longer catch in your normal stroke without trying, so you get a little bit faster overall

Possible problems, slight stomach irratation

[johnglynn]

2.

Rob (Derrylad) told me about this one

I have big feet and generally had my feet on the lowest or second lowest setting. Rob suggested I try setting my feet to the highest level .
This seems to have given me a boost in pace, probably due to a more direct line of force (i.e. legs pushing at 90degree rather then 80degrees)

Possible problems, tightness all along the back of the leg

[johnglynn]

3.

A OTW LTW rower from Marlow RC in Dublin happened to row in my gym at the end of one of my sessions, we started talking and he told me that I was not using my back, (not leaning back at the end of the stroke) .
So I tried some tests and the results are amazing, BUT similar to the Long catch I still have the same cardio vascular system so I end up burning out very quickly. But using my back to a extreme amount when training, allows me to use it to a lesser degree (and less tiring degree) when rowing normally and speed up a bit.

Possible problems with this is that I've been experiencing slight back pain after testing this which lasts 1 or 2 days, but the results are amazing

[johnglynn]

Results

I've only done one real race pace distance recently using these techniques so far, I'm going to row a race pace 4K in the NWIIRC (North West Irish IRC) on Saturday and I'll report how that goes.

The distance was a 10K . I got a PB (which I would have got using my old strokes I think, my PB was old), but I flew and died quite badly . I started the race comfortably rowing very low 1:40's (this is not normal in the slightest for me) . Then I started getting tired, my technique started to fall apart, I started to tighten (shorter catch, leaning back less at end of stroke) .

I think that once I learn to race a distance using these technique's properly (I'm guessing this will take me many months), and learn to hold the technique for the full distance I think I will gain big gains, at least 1 second pace and maybe up to 3 seconds pace .

[Thomas W-P]

What you are describing is how you are taught to row in a boat. As long as you do not over-reach at the catch it al makes sense.

I was taught to "Sit tall" at the finish - but this is a lot to do with getting the blade out of the water. It does mean you sit up straight and lean back a little.

I have found recently that holding my hands lower has helped with bad tendonitis in my wrist since it is now straighter. I think it has also helped with strke power a little for the same reason.

Finally, I find I don't think to "pull with my arms" since they get very tired very quickly. BUT I have to consciously think to pull with them when sprinting since there is a noticeable effect. I think the "not using arms" scenario might explain why some good long distance rowers are relatively weak at short sprints and visa-versa.

[johnglynn]

Finally, I find I don't think to "pull with my arms" since they get very tired very quickly. BUT I have to consciously think to pull with them when sprinting since there is a noticeable effect. I think the "not using arms" scenario might explain why some good long distance rowers are relatively weak at short sprints and visa-versa.

The rower from Dublin also said to me that I was using my arms to a large degree (but I've sort of ignored that advice) . Maybe thats one of the reasons I'm a strong sprinter and not more balanced .

Hopefully you and other's will be able to fine tune my technique a bit more at the BIRC when you see it in person

[jainser]

This all makes an interesting read. I met a rower from MAD in a hotel I was working in. He pointed out to me that I don'y use my back enough as well. He also rowed a lot on water.
Will try the high foot rest, I have big old plates of meat so always use a low setting normally.

[Thomas W-P]

I am not convinced by this "low feet" idea but will give it a try.

[johnglynn]

I am not convinced by this "low feet" idea but will give it a try.

It's high feet Thomas

It seems to work for myself and Rob but then we are both very tall.
Because of the slope \ of the footrest having feet higher up makes the equivalent rail longer (both myself and Rob sometimes hit the end of the rail) so maybe this is where the advantage is .

I'm plan to do a 100% effort test (i.e. 100m pace) soon, I'm hoping I will not shake the machine as much, and will have much less lifting effect due to the better force angle (at that pace I tend to raise up off the seat) . By better force angle I mean the direction the power from my legs is going into the machine (low feet / , high feet --)

[JanetS]

A possible factor to think about when raising feet is whether it affects the amount of compression you can get at the catch (and how it affects the forward lean) - mostly limited by hamstrings and the foot/shin angle you can achieve.

If you raise the plate you might find it useful to include some (extra?) stretching into your routine to increase flexibility so you still get all the power off the catch as well as having the better force angle.

Just a suggestion - it's one of the things we get our rowers doing.

both myself and Rob sometimes hit the end of the rail

scary people!

[johnglynn]

A possible factor to think about when raising feet is whether it affects the amount of compression you can get at the catch (and how it affects the forward lean) - mostly limited by hamstrings and the foot/shin angle you can achieve.

If you raise the plate you might find it useful to include some (extra?) stretching into your routine to increase flexibility so you still get all the power off the catch as well as having the better force angle.

Just a suggestion - it's one of the things we get our rowers doing.

Thanks Janet, It certainly reduces the amount I can compress, but overall it seems to have a positive effect on pace .

I think I need to add some stretching for it also, I've done a number of 10K's using this technique and on everyone (either recovery pace or full race pace), the back of my right quad seems to lock up at around the 7K in mark . I thought (and still do a bit) that rowing meters will get rid of this, but I should add some stretchs also to speed up the process

[JanetS]

.....overall it seems to have a positive effect on pace .

I'm jealous! with size 3/4 feet my footplate is already on next to highest setting just to get toes strapped in - so no extra to be gained by me there

(& at 5ft2 I'm in no danger of hitting the back of the rail - if only C2 did petite ergos! )

There are some great 'back of quad' stretches - but I'm hopeless at describing them.......

[johnglynn]

I rowed 2 100m races on Robs machine on Saturday with the high feet position, it definitely made the machine shake and jump a lot less then a normal 100m.

So I think it definitely is a more efficient way of putting the power down (less waste energy making the machine jump around) . It also doesn't hamper high stroke rates (which I thought it would), as I was able to hit my max (39SPM) during the 100m

Technique wise Rob already has a very long catch and leans his back back a lot even when doing his normal technique

[johnglynn]

A disadvantage of leaning back more and strecting long on the catch is the strain it puts on the back .
I tried 2 Marathon attempts during a long weekend and my upper back became incredibly sore after just over an hour .
I reckon it will take months to fully strenghten up my back to the new technique

[JanetS]

Good news about the increased efficiency John.

Re the increased back strain - do you have access to weights? Bench pulls can target the area you describe and might get you sorted faster than just erging.

Also be a tad careful of over extending at the catch, with your position essentally rotated back slightly it is tricky to maintain the same catch length as before without giving in to curving your back - which will increase soreness and reduce effectiveness of the catch. That should improve as flexibility increases - I saw you said you'd be working on the stretching, targetting teh hamstrings should help.

Good luck with it!

[johnglynn]

Thanks Janet

I have access to weights but the gym does not have a bench high enough to do a Bench Pull . It also only has dumbells, no long bar weights

The strectchs with the hamstring are going well and have definitly made a difference , thanks.