Training towards a 6:20 2k

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Re: Training for a 6:20 2k

Post by Huw Thomas »

Great marker Mat, and particularly brave in fighting the onset of Manflu

Damian - awesome! ^O^
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Re: Training for a 6:20 2k

Post by Doc RowSlo »

Mat wrote: Total 45' - 12415m, 1:48.7, 27, 162
Very nice looking session Mat 8)
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Re: Training for a 6:20 2k

Post by stumpy »

Yes good session Mat, But was it aerobic training? or am I missing something here.
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Re: Training for a 6:20 2k

Post by Doc RowSlo »

colin bradley wrote:Yes good session Mat, But was it aerobic training?
AT in terms of training bands I think, from the look of the data, but it depends what one means by "aerobic training".
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Re: Training for a 6:20 2k

Post by Mat »

colin bradley wrote:Yes good session Mat, But was it aerobic training?
To be honest Colin, this was something of a learning session, as will several of my longer sessions this month. Before attempting a 60' or HM in anger, I needed to get a better feel for how my body copes with longer stuff at various paces. I know from recent "recovery" rows roughly where my aerobic threshold sits, and should be able to maintain a pace of 1:56-7 with a HR remaining at 145-150bpm. The 1:49 pace relates to my 60' SB, and so today I maintained a constant pace and watched the HR closely. The HR did gradually increase, as expected for a session of this length at above aerobic threshold, and as I mentioned, it is as the HR reaches the higher 160's that it starts to feel much harder. I guess that at this point, the lactate(which will have been gradually building) has begun to reach an uncomfortable level. Because of the problem with the belt/pod in the first part of the session, I couldn't determine the EPOC level at which this point was reached, but hopefully I will do in sessions over the next few weeks

The plan is to include plenty of these type of sessions, as well as longer, low intensity sessions to train the aerobic/fat metabolism systems over the next few weeks. If I can reach the 45' mark at that pace, with HR still around the low 160's, then a 60' PB is on :twisted:

Sorry for such a long answer to a short question :oops:
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Re: Training for a 6:20 2k

Post by thornmaster »

Will be following this thread with intrest. Recently started the Pete plan begginer with the aim of entering a few races in the future. Will be interesting seeing how the quick heavy weights train and how far I can push myself. I will try and set a baseline 2k time soon to measure my progress against. Do most people train just on the erg or do you do weights or other aerobic work as well?
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Re: Training for a 6:20 2k

Post by stumpy »

Thx for the reply Mat/ Lee it all helps in the quest to go faster mateys.
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Training for a 6:20 2k

Post by damian.griffin »

To compliment my erg work i do 2 strength sessions per week. All sessions are done based on the idea that my 2 key erg sessions are not affected. ie i feel fresh to go and maintain improvements. This is my first attempt at a full season of erg work.

Be sure to set down your 2k mark so you can assess your progress over time.
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Re: Training for a 6:20 2k

Post by Doc RowSlo »

thornmaster wrote:Do most people train just on the erg or do you do weights or other aerobic work as well?
I haven't done any weights for a year but used to use them regularly. It will be part of the new regime as soon as I can find an appropriate gym :roll:
Most of my training is on the erg but when the weather allows I do some road cycling with a group of triathletes (mostly IronMen).

The events of the last few days have clearly taken their toll on me. I had rather thought that holding 1:48-49 for a 30 minute piece would be fairly straightforward. It wasn't, and as you can clearly see from the split times and HR data, I was :roll: dying after the first 10 or 15 minutes. It was a very unpleasant experience.

30'

01:48.3__24spm__EHR 156
01:48.6__24spm__EHR 164
01:49.2__24spm__EHR 169
01:50.4__24spm__EHR 170
01:49.8__25spm__EHR 174

30'__8,233m__01:49.3__24spm__AHR 160!!__Peak EPOC 157ml/kg

2k cd and then straight into a gentle 50' paddle. Of course, I realised that this was a bad idea but I'd signed up for it. Didn't find that very pleasant either :roll:

50'

01:59.8__19spm__EHR 141
01:59.8__19spm__EHR 140
01:59.3__19spm__EHR 145
01:59.4__19spm__EHR 149
01:59.0__20spm__EHR 151

50'__12,548m__01:59.5__19spm__AHR 143__Peak EPOC 73ml/kg__TE 3.9 overall

2k cd

More recovery time needed I rather suspect, but at least I've put a score down for the CTC.
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Re: Training for a 6:20 2k

Post by Mat »

thornmaster wrote:...with the aim of entering a few races in the future. Will be interesting seeing how the quick heavy weights train and how far I can push myself. I will try and set a baseline 2k time soon to measure my progress against. Do most people train just on the erg or do you do weights or other aerobic work as well?
That sounds like a good aim. The baseline 2k is also a good idea, and as you begin a training plan focussed on the 2k, you may find that by repeating this every 4-6 weeks, you will see some real progress, especially in the early months :fsbgrin: Many of us on this thread have recently competed in BIRC and/or EIRC, and so with the next race yet to be defined, you will probably see many of us at the beginning of a new training cycle, which will be very different to the faster intervals you will have seen in recent weeks if you've followed the EIRC/BIRC threads

I personally haven't really done any weights since I was about 16, and have been training solely on the erg. I have considered introducing weights to the training in the current cycle, but have opted instead to incorporate some low rate sprint intervals into the plan instead (that saves me having to go out and buy weights :!: )


Lee - I'm not surprised that the last few days have taken their toll :shock: That 50' session alone may have been a good option for today, but the 30' session certainly looks tough. With the HR reaching mid 160's before halfway, you showed great determination to finish the session, and at a good time too =D> 8) I think it's about time to take some of your own advice on the recovery front though [-X :wink:
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Re: Training for a 6:20 2k

Post by Liefcat »

Great aerobic session, Mat :!: =D> HR not drifting too much, so looking good for 60min and HM :!: 8)

Great 30 minutes´ row, Doc :!: =D> And impressive AvHR :!: :wink:

Not so great a 30´ row from me today, that is HDed at 18½ minutes... Still had power in my strokes, but felt like a (systemic) struggle from early on. Having been very hard on meself the last 2 weeks, I thought it OK to stop today:

18:36,4 5238m 1:46,5 25 145
03´ 838m 1:47,3 26 134
06´ 848m 1:46,1 26 139
09´ 851m 1:45,7 26 143
12´ 852m 1:45,6 25 148
15´ 847m 1:46,2 26 152
18´ 842m 1:46,8 25 151
18´36"4 161m 1:53,0 151

Expect to feel more fit in a couple of days... :fswink:
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Re: Training for a 6:20 2k

Post by Jon »

Excellent session Mat and a great re-entry into the longer distance stuff, thanks for kicking this off in an inimitably reliable fashion. Very consistent pace. Oh, if you start with a sore throat which comes to nothing and your workout is of this quality, that, is man flu! [-X :lol:

That's a hard 30' session Lee, so nothing to be ashamed about feeling the burn after 15' or so. Most commendable numbers of meters you accrued with the subsequent 50', and no doubt a very worthy way of getting that aerobic fitness up. I bet you're going to feel this in a day or two. =D> ^O^

I have just started fooling around with some weights again. I used to use them reasonably frequently between ages 18 and 24, but then my erg times are faster now (probably because I didn't use the erg enough then nearly enough though). I'm going for around 3 sets at 15 reps and using a weight where I can maintain focus on the muscle group being exercised. I'm doing lat pull downs, low pull rowing type action, deltoid raises, shoulder shrugs, leg presses, bench presses. A row the next day is good to get rid of the stiffness. I don't want the weights to replace any of the aerobic stuff, as I find the sprint sessions good strength training. I suppose it depends on how much time you have.

Just an idea Mat, just an old bench and some cheap dumbells should make a good start for your barn, one arm bent over rowing, curling, reverse curling etc. I also think doing wide grip chin ups makes good exercise for rowing, and press ups aren't too bad. There are often cheap weights to be found in classified ads when teenagers get fed up with them in the bedrooms. :-k

Eric, that was promising to be a fast 30'. It's amazing how a pace you may find one day is conservative becomes painful so quickly on another day. It is always sensible to call it a day on such days though (though you could have just paddled it home)! :wink: 8)

If you want to see HR drift, just look at my data Eric! Actually, I'm recovering much faster than I was several months ago, so I think I can up the intensity on the training a notch or two.

3*20min, r'2 16397 1:49.7 26spm TE 5.0 (max EPOC 228ml/Kg) :shock: #-o

20' 5397m 1:51.1 24spm 162
20' 5487m 1:49.3 27spm 167
20' 5514m 1:48.8 29spm 179 (didn't resist the urge to sprint towards the end to ensure negatively split)

This is probably the highest EPOC I've recorded yet. I reckon as I get fitter, I should be able to tolerate higher loads. I need to toughen up and put in some harder training now.
Last edited by Jon on Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Training for a 6:20 2k

Post by Liefcat »

3x20´ with negative splitting, Jon :?: :?: :?: :shock: :shock: :shock:

But that´s insane :!: ^O^ ^O^ ^O^ :wink: No wonder the TE went crazy :!: 8)
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Re: Training for a 6:20 2k

Post by Doc RowSlo »

Jon wrote:
3*20min, r'2 16397 1:49.7 26spm TE 5.0 (max EPOC 228ml/Kg) :shock: #-o

20' 5397m 1:51.1 24spm 162
20' 5487m 1:49.3 27spm 167
20' 5514m 1:48.8 29spm 179 (didn't resist the urge to sprint towards the end to ensure negatively split)

This is probably the highest EPOC I've recorded yet. I reckon as I get fitter, I should be able to tolerate higher loads. I need to toughen up and put in some harder training now.
Ouch :shock:
Seriously impressive session ^O^ ^O^ ^O^
On 2'r those are great HR data too 8)
Mat wrote: Lee -.................... I think it's about time to take some of your own advice on the recovery front though [-X :wink:
Yes, definitely. Something gentle tomorrow .....but possibly quite a lot of metres and then almost certainly a complete rest day on Thursday.
Liefcat wrote: Not so great a 30´ row from me today, that is HDed at 18½ minutes... Still had power in my strokes, but felt like a (systemic) struggle from early on. Having been very hard on meself the last 2 weeks, I thought it OK to stop today:

18:36,4 5238m 1:46,5 25 145
03´ 838m 1:47,3 26 134
06´ 848m 1:46,1 26 139
09´ 851m 1:45,7 26 143
12´ 852m 1:45,6 25 148
15´ 847m 1:46,2 26 152
18´ 842m 1:46,8 25 151
18´36"4 161m 1:53,0 151

Expect to feel more fit in a couple of days... :fswink:
Not an altogether unexpected result given the number of 2k races and other very hard sessions lately.
Interesting that the HR drift was minimal from 12 to 18 minutes but that you felt like you were struggling. Again, probably reflects the high muscular load recently I would have thought.
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Re: Training for a 6:20 2k

Post by Mat »

Great session Jon =D> =D> =D> That's a very impressive pace for 60' of rowing, with just a short couple of rest breaks, and negatively split too :shock: :D

Erik - I'd have to agree with Lee that it looks as if the recent training and races have taken their toll. Added to that of course, you went out at a pretty impressive pace for a 30' 8) There's no doubt that after a couple of days at a lower intensity you'll be back at your incredible best :wink: :fsbgrin:

With the body still trying to ensure that this cold doesn't take hold, I decided to take today off. Hope you all have a good session today :D
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Re: Training for a 6:20 2k

Post by strider77 »

Very impressive 3 x 20 min Jon =D>

Erik-don't worry too much you have rowed very fast recently with your DIRC GOLD and need a rest :D

I had one of those sessions which I brought on myself by doing two hard sessions Saturday and Sunday, one day rest was not enough recovery for me :oops:

Last night was down to do 4 x 1k , managed 2 then halfway through the 3rd I thought this hurts and HD'd :oops:

3:29.1-1:44.5-31-just right
3:28.7-1:44.3-31-consistent feeling OK

So to salvage something did a 30 min cool down starting at 2:00/500 pace then increasing speed as the feeling came back to my legs
-7719m for a first marker in the CTC :D

We have a lot of FSs on the list already great job everyone

Will probably have tonight off or do something other than rowing, probably a short weights session as have not done one for a bit :D
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Re: Training for a 6:20 2k

Post by Liefcat »

Doc RowSlo wrote:Not an altogether unexpected result given the number of 2k races and other very hard sessions lately.
Interesting that the HR drift was minimal from 12 to 18 minutes but that you felt like you were struggling. Again, probably reflects the high muscular load recently I would have thought.
Thanks for your analysis, Doc :!: :fssmile:

Yeahh, you are probably right :!: Did some segments of really long, rather powerful strokes from 10 minutes and on to use the "muscles"... :wink:
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Re: Training for a 6:20 2k

Post by hewitt »

First attempt at the CTC today.Just putting down a marker for getting over 8600m again. :fsbgrin:

30min...8577m...1:44.9...r26

6min....1:45.0....r26
12min...1:44.7...r26
18min...1:44.8...r27
24min...1:45.2...r26(legs still have slight DOMS from Sundays relay) :oops:
30min...1:44.6...r27


I have just started using my weights again.More reps and less weight. :fsgrin:
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Re: Training for a 6:20 2k

Post by Liefcat »

Great training session, Alan: Hard intervals and a ctc :!: =D> =D>

Great post 2k and post relay row, Jason :arrow: sub 1:45 :!: =D> =D>
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Re: Training for a 6:20 2k

Post by Doc RowSlo »

Well salvaged Alan =D> Those 1k intervals at around 2k pace are quite nasty :twisted:

Great 30' session Jason 8)
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Re: Training for a 6:20 2k

Post by Jon »

Thanks for the comments, I've been suffering some DOMS today from the possibly over enthusiastic weights I did 2 days ago. I didn't sleep so well last night after possibly slightly over extending myself on the aerobic stuff yesterday... still once in a while shouldn't hurt too much.

That's a good pace on the 2*1K and a sensible recovery plan to salvage a good workout with the 30' - I know what you mean about working the pace back upwards again (this happens to me also then you're left thinking, I could have finished the intervals after all)! I quite like mixes of training in one session anyway. 8) =D>

Excellent 30' Jason, just spooling up before you hit the 8'6s again I would imagine. Great stuff. =D> =D>

I've been banned from using my erg / Watt bike when the kids are in bed #-o :( (it apparently wakes them up)
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Re: Training for a 6:20 2k

Post by zootMutant »

Jon wrote:I've been banned from using my erg / Watt bike when the kids are in bed #-o :( (it apparently wakes them up)
I would think the whoosh, whoosh sound would be very comforting and relaxing... maybe it's you wheezing and gasping for breath that wakes them up? :?
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Re: Training for a 6:20 2k

Post by Liefcat »

Proper go today at the CTC:

30´ 8673m 1:43,7 28 157
04´ 1175m 1:42,1 30 145
08´ 1159m 1:43,5 28 151
12´ 1154m 1:43,9 29 152
16´ 1150m 1:44,3 28 156
20´ 1149m 1:44,4 28 159
24´ 1143m 1:44,9 28 161
28´ 1138m 1:45,4 28 164
30´ 0606m 1:39,0 32 169

Was faster than yesterday and didn´t feel as hard... SB and fastest on this "distance" since 2008 :!: :D
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Re: Training for a 6:20 2k

Post by hewitt »

Awesome 30min Erik. =D> =D>

GAME ON.. :twisted:
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Re: Training for a 6:20 2k

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hewitt wrote:Awesome 30min Erik. =D> =D>

GAME ON.. :twisted:
Thanks, Jase :!: :fssmile:

GAME ON :!: :lol: :wink:
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