Firstbeat Athlete

[Hunkydory]

Well, to end my shaggy dog story - my "normal" movestick has arrived, and it talks quite happily with FBA, despite having Moveslink/count on my PC (although disabled when I open FBA). I don't know if this gives any clues to those experiencing problems with a PC Pod and Moveslink ?

[Doc RowSlo]

Here's a really strange set of HR data for today's HM
I wonder if it has anything to do with a stinking hangover It would be strange though as, in my experience, alcohol tends to make the HR somewhat higher.

HM (roughly 2k splits)

01:58.8__21spm__EHR 141
01:58.1__22spm__EHR 143
01:58.2__22spm__EHR 144
01:58.4__22spm__EHR 145
01:58.1__22spm__EHR 144
01:58.4__22spm__EHR 144
01:58.2__21spm__EHR 143
01:58.1__21spm__EHR 141
01:57.7__21spm__EHR 143
01:57.9__21spm__EHR 143

21,087m__83:08.9__01:58.2__21spm__AHR 141__Peak EPOC 107 ml/kg__TE 3.3

2k cd

HM HR 2.jpg (89.17 KiB) Viewed 2915 times

HM HR.jpg (107.79 KiB) Viewed 2915 times

How peculiar is that?!
The HR shoots up to the low 140's straight away and then just stays there, or even falls despite an even or very slightly negative split.
Anyone got any explanation? I guess the EPOC falling is that FBA algorithmn issue with the length of the session, but it's quite a fall and actually maintained until the end of the row

Maybe I should drink more often

[badocter]

Your HR clearly dropped a few BPM after the EPOC peak, so that alone would start the EPOC back down since it already had enough time to line out at the higher heart rate level. Since stress level plays into the HR variability, perhaps your stress level dropped once the meters remaining dropped below 10000m. Another possibility is your stroke became more efficient (technique or perhaps stroke rate change). I would be interested to see the splits with the stroke rates if you have them.

[Doc RowSlo]

Is this what you mean, Bill?

HM RP.jpg (178.21 KiB) Viewed 2909 times

HM RP 2.jpg (120.48 KiB) Viewed 2909 times

HM RP 3.jpg (118 KiB) Viewed 2909 times

I don't think that I was under any real mental stress, other than wondering about the risks of vomiting in view of the hangover

[badocter]

Your stroke rate was lower in the last 8500m and correspondingly the DPS was higher, so perhaps for you at the pace you were going R21 was more efficient. You would need more case studies and data to prove it conclusively though

[badocter]

Here is the data from 10k SB this afternoon. I used the electorde gel and the error rate was still 7% perhaps the chest belt is too loose or the placement of the PC-POD is the issue. Anyway, well chuffed to get both the SB and make the 4 million meter club on this row. The negative split was fairly big in the second half as I relized I still had gas in the tank. TE 4.2.

2011dec25 10k sb HR and EPOC.gif (42.23 KiB) Viewed 2910 times

Code: Select all

               Time    Meters  Dist    DPS     Watts   Cals    SPM     EndHR    
                1	2:07.2	500	2:07.2	9.1	170.1	31	26	143
                2	2:05.9	500	2:05.9	9.5	175.4	32	25	152
                3	2:06.3	500	2:06.3	9.5	173.7	32	25	156
                4	2:05.7	500	2:05.7	9.5	176.2	32	25	161
                5	2:05.3	500	2:05.3	9.2	177.9	32	26	165
                6	2:04.8	500	2:04.8	9.6	180.1	32	25	165
                7	2:05.0	500	2:05.0	9.2	179.2	32	26	165
                8	2:05.2	500	2:05.2	9.6	178.3	32	25	167
                9	2:04.8	500	2:04.8	9.2	180.1	32	26	170
               10	2:05.1	500	2:05.1	9.6	178.8	32	25	170
               11	2:04.4	500	2:04.4	8.9	181.8	32	27	172
               12	2:03.9	500	2:03.9	9.3	184.0	32	26	175
               13	2:03.3	500	2:03.3	9.0	186.7	32	27	175
               14	2:02.9	500	2:02.9	9.0	188.5	32	27	177
               15	2:01.7	500	2:01.7	9.1	194.2	33	27	180
               16	2:00.8	500	2:00.8	9.2	198.5	33	27	182
               17	1:59.2	500	1:59.2	9.0	206.7	33	28	186
               18	1:59.6	500	1:59.6	9.0	204.6	33	28	186
               19	1:59.8	500	1:59.8	8.9	203.6	33	28	186
               20	1:55.8	500	1:55.8	7.9	225.4	35	33	191
               Totals	41:06.6	10,000	2:03.3		186.6	646	27	191
               Sum Warm Up/Dn	0:00.0	0				0		
               Overall	41:06.6	10,000				646

[badocter]

This time I tightened the belt and used a little more of the electrode gel. Error rate now 32%. The session was 30min 7453m@2:00.8R27 for a season's best. Fairly even splits except the last one where I emptied the tanks.

2011dec27 30 minute rowpro HR and EPOC.gif (43.79 KiB) Viewed 2896 times

Code: Select all

       Time	Meters  Split  DPS	Watts	Cals     SPM	EndHR	
 	1	1:30.0	365	2:03.3	9.4	186.8	24	26	143
 	2	1:30.0	372	2:01.0	9.9	197.7	25	25	156
 	3	1:30.0	373	2:00.6	9.9	199.3	25	25	161
 	4	1:30.0	372	2:01.0	9.9	197.7	25	25	169
 	5	1:30.0	373	2:00.6	10.4	199.3	25	24	173
 	6	1:30.0	372	2:01.0	9.9	197.7	25	25	177
 	7	1:30.0	372	2:01.0	9.9	197.7	25	25	180
 	8	1:30.0	372	2:01.0	9.9	197.7	25	25	182
 	9	1:30.0	371	2:01.3	9.9	196.1	24	25	186
 	10	1:30.0	371	2:01.3	9.2	196.1	24	27	186
 	11	1:30.0	372	2:01.0	9.5	197.7	25	26	186
 	12	1:30.0	372	2:01.0	9.2	197.7	25	27	188
 	13	1:30.0	371	2:01.3	9.2	196.1	24	27	190
 	14	1:30.0	372	2:01.0	9.2	197.7	25	27	191
 	15	1:30.0	372	2:01.0	9.2	197.7	25	27	192
 	16	1:30.0	372	2:01.0	9.2	197.7	25	27	192
 	17	1:30.0	371	2:01.3	9.2	196.1	24	27	192
 	18	1:30.0	371	2:01.3	8.8	196.1	24	28	193
 	19	1:30.0	370	2:01.6	8.8	194.6	24	28	194
 	20	1:30.0	397	1:53.4	7.8	240.3	28	34	201
 	Totals	30:00.0	7,453	2:00.8		198.8	492	27	201
 	Sum Warm Up/Dn	0:00.0	0				0		
 	Overall	30:00.0	7,453				492

[stumpy]

Send it back to Suunto Bill.

[badocter]

It reads fine when I am at rest or on the interval part of a rep/interval sequence. It just occured to me that my left arm blocks line of sight from the chestbelt to the PC-pod during the catch and the drive. During rests and intervals my arms are down and do not block line of sight. I am going to get a USB extention tomorrow and mount the PC-POD right on the PM where it will always have line of sight to the chest belt and see if that works.

[Doc RowSlo]

It reads fine when I am at rest or on the interval part of a rep/interval sequence. It just occured to me that my left arm blocks line of sight from the chestbelt to the PC-pod during the catch and the drive. During rests and intervals my arms are down and do not block line of sight. I am going to get a USB extention tomorrow and mount the PC-POD right on the PM where it will always have line of sight to the chest belt and see if that works.

I doubt that your arm has suddenly become a barrier to to the transmission of radio waves, Bill.
I agree with Colin. Send it back to Suunto.
All of my belts fail in exactly that way. I'm just about to send the 12th one (I think, but lost count in all honesty) back to them

[badocter]

I've got a row in 15 minutes, but I put the belt on early and have it recording now. I am about 1m from the PC-POD and can verify that it picks up fine when the belt transmitter has line of sight to it, but loses contact completely if I cover the transmitter with my hand, then contact resumes immediately after I take my hand off. I will be going to Best Buy this afternoon to get that USB extension and post a followup tomorrow.

[Mat]

I'd fully agree with Colin and Lee, Bill. I'm just about to send one of mine off for the fourth time (I do hope never to catch up with Lee ) and now have two belts so that I've always got one to use whilst the other is off for repair

Not sure about the US, but returning them from the UK couldn't be easier, filling in a form online, booking their courier and having collection and delivery to and from home - all free of charge. Go on, you know you need to

[badocter]

I got my USB extention set up and mounted the PC-POD to the top of my PM. Did a steady 30 minute session today (7182m@2:05.3R27). 0% error rate. The uncorrected data is shown below and is among the cleanest traces I have ever had. AHR 162, Peak HR 184, TE 3.5. The new location of the PC-POD puts it about a meter closer to me on average, so it should never be more than 1.5 meters from me during a row. Signal strength drops off as the square of distance, so the shorter distance effectively makes the signal strength from the recievers point of view about 2.8 times stronger. It also reduces the number of objects interupting line of sight to just one...the handle if I pull to the upper chest, as opposed to before my upper arm and lower thigh blocked it at the catch. Will be interesting to see if the error rate improvement holds up over future rows.

2011dec 29 hr and epoc badocter 30 min plus 2500m cd

2011dec29 30 minute rowpro HR and EPOC.gif (52.6 KiB) Viewed 2863 times

[Doc RowSlo]

Just downloaded the latest update for FBA.
The program ought to check for updates each time it launches, but I remember that that wasn't the case for Steve Wiser a while back.
At first glance there don't seem to be too many changes, the main one being support for the Garmin Forerunner 610. That's quite nice as it offers the potential of moving away from Suunto in the hope that the Garmin equipment might be a bit more robust
For some time now, several Polar belts/computers with HRV smapling frequencies have been compatible with FBA (although not via the PC Pod as far as I'm aware), but whilst Suunto keep replacing my belts, I've not had much inclination to change.
Like Mat, I've got 2 belts so that I'm never without one.

The other diference with the update that leaps out straight away is that when you move the mouse over the EPOC curve (or whatever you've set as curve 2), you now get an instantaneous report of HR and EPOC at that point.

FBA Update.jpg (149.09 KiB) Viewed 2832 times

Right, now I'm off to DHL to return another Suunto ANT belt

[Mat]

Right, now I'm off to DHL to return another Suunto ANT belt

I'm just about to call them to arrange a collection for mine too

[Iain]

Bill, well done on the 10k & 30' SBs. I have never had good pick up from the pods for more than 10 weeks at a time despite 6 polar transmitters. I have resorted to checking my "watch" which still picks up a signal after 18 months. Please would you let me know details of what is required to extend the cable on the receiver.

Lee, re your strange HR trace, I have always found that the after effects of alcohol disappear if I can do a reasonably extended exercise session. No idea on the physiology (or even whether this is due to endorphins or even placebo), but have postulated that teh obvious breakdown pathway of alcohol is via Acetyl CoA and so the use of this in exercise might speed the process. Perhaps your liver finished breaking down the alcohol during the row and so this additional metabolic activity dropped making the total load less as the row progressed. Just my amateurish musings...

- Iain

[stumpy]

My money would be on the slower Stroke rate which gives a longer recovery within the stroke, and we are talking about Lee here who looks sooooo relaxed when at those lower ratings

Just down loaded the update and boy did that get my HR up a bit what with backing the files up to Suunto TM and then not been able to open FB again for a few goes after a restart, all ok now though. Phew!!!!!

[badocter]

Iain,
I just used a standard "A-male" to "A-female" USB extension cable. One end plugs into the computer USB port and the PC-POD plugs into the other end. I have the end with the POD mounted on the PM as shown in the picture:

suunto pc-pod mounting on PM4.jpg (74.19 KiB) Viewed 2812 times

[Iain]

I thought you were talking about the C2 HR Interface, but thinking about it, as that plugs into the PM no extension is required!

Having just looked it up (I couldn't remember what it was called), i notice that the one C2 are now selling is a different shape. Does anyone use the new one? If so, is it any better than the old? Also, the distance would be more, but do you think mounting it higher so that my body and the rail don't get in the way might help reception?

- Iain

[Doc RowSlo]

Having just looked it up (I couldn't remember what it was called), i notice that the one C2 are now selling is a different shape. Does anyone use the new one?

This isn't a new C2 interface for a PM, Iain. It's a Suunto PC Pod for transmitting directly from a Suunto HR belt to Suunto Training Manager Monitor or FirstBeat Athlete.

[Iain]

Having just looked it up (I couldn't remember what it was called), i notice that the one C2 are now selling is a different shape. Does anyone use the new one?

This isn't a new C2 interface for a PM, Iain. It's a Suunto PC Pod for transmitting directly from a Suunto HR belt to Suunto Training Manager Monitor or FirstBeat Athlete.

Sorry, I realised my mistake, the 2 comments were unconnected. The C2 HR Interface http://concept2.co.uk/shop/product/heart_rate_interface is different to the 2 I have which are longer.

sorry for the hijack.

- Iain

[Stan]

Just run into my first problem with firstbeat. It doesnt want to analyse the last 3 workouts from the watch. Movescount has been able to analyse them so that seems really odd.
Anybody with any thoughts or suggestions?

[stumpy]

Hi Stan are you getting a good contact with the snake, the watch should show that the PC is connected, or maybe the watch battery needs replacing. There was a new upgrade released this week by FB mine auto loaded but it did take a couple of restarts before the program would open.

[Stan]

Hi Colin - I downloaded the fb update several days ago - no problems initially. The watch is showing the pc is connected. Batteries should be ok as they were both replaced in the last 6 months (1 for the watch and 1 for the chest transmitter).
FB is showing my 3 workouts and shows how long each lasted, but it just wont analyse the data.

[Doc RowSlo]

Hi Colin - I downloaded the fb update several days ago - no problems initially. The watch is showing the pc is connected. Batteries should be ok as they were both replaced in the last 6 months (1 for the watch and 1 for the chest transmitter).
FB is showing my 3 workouts and shows how long each lasted, but it just wont analyse the data.

That's a bit strange Stan
I think that there's a real problem with the contact between t6 and the USB lead. I often get "PC Connected" on the t6 and "No t6 found" on FBA. Sometimes a similar problem occurs where the workouts are listed in FBA but contain no data (I think that the workout length is accurate, as far as I remember).
Try cleaning the contacts on the t6 with a pin or similar. Getting easily obstructed /coroded by sweaty skin bits seems to be a design fault IMO !

Other than that, I'm not sure. 6 months for a chest belt battery is a very long time indeed in my experience but shouldn't affect file download if the t6 is recording HR.

The fact that it seems to work with Movescount suggests a problem with the software, rather than a mechanical one though. Have you tried reinstalling it?
Does it work with STraM?