Firstbeat Athlete

Stan · Post by **Stan** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:17 pm

Agree to some extent Bill. It seems accurate enough for middle distances but is completely wrong for very long distances of half marathon or further. I still havent forgiven it for saying my marathon was only a TE 3.3 - I spent 3 hours at my aerobic threshold or higher for crying out loud! It also doesnt take into account how hard interval training is.
On the otherhand I just love those pretty graphs

billwright · Post by **billwright** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:35 pm

Stan

What's the name of that other programme you use please?

Bill

Stan · Post by **Stan** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:46 pm

Movescount.com
You need to download and install some software and register with the site. The manual that came with your suunto should direct you to it. I am having problems with it at the moment as it wont produce any graphs and I cant edit the workout information (allows me to say what kind of workout, my opinion of the workout and how far I went). So far my queries have been ignored by suunto but its only been a couple of days.

Link here might work
http://www.movescount.com/scoreboard/me

Stan · Post by **Stan** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:57 pm

Figured out the problem with movescount. Its the new version of internet explorer I recently installed (9.2?). Movescount works fine with googlechrome.

billwright · Post by **billwright** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:14 pm

I'm messing around with it now Stan and it won't complete loading My Moves so I'll try it with Fire Fox as it defaults to IE.

Got there instantly with Fire Fox

Bill

Doc RowSlo · Post by **Doc RowSlo** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:24 pm

Movescount is Beta software as far as I know, which is strange since it's replaced STraM which is excellent.
I tried it briefly but really didn't get on with it.

FBA is designed to look at CVS fatigue during continuous exercise of longish periods. It underestimates how hard shorter intervals are because the recovery periods throw it, especially when the recovery period is long like in the classical 4x2k or 4x1k.
Also, shorter rows like a 5k, which we all know to be incredibly hard, simply aren't long enough to produce a high EPOC! I think that my 5k PB produced a TE of 3.4.

Your 60' rows will have been fine for analysis.

The automatic adjustment of Activity Class function is rubbish and should be ignored. I suspect that 8.0 or 8.5 is correct for you and am pretty sure that 9.0 is too high. AC is the biggest flaw in HRV analysis IMO.

billwright · Post by **billwright** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:44 pm

Thanks Lee.

It's all sinking into the old grey matter. Each of the three programmes has something to offer and if they could combine all their best attributes it would be some programme. I guess that FBA in trying to cover all the bases cannot accomodate indoor rowing as some of its functions (as you and others have pointed out) are not entirely appropriate. I'll continue to run with all three until the evaluation period lapses on FBA and make a decision then on whether to continue. The extra week of data may give it a fighting chance.

Bill

Mat · Post by **Mat** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:05 pm

I struggled with STraM and STraM Lite when I first got my T3C, but found that neither really seemed to work too well with my laptop, nor be as user-friendly as they could have been. This would be partly due to my lack of understanding regarding the (severe) limitations of the T3c which can only provide an end of session summary which is of little use

I soon found that the purchase of a PC Pod allowed me to record HR in real time using FBA (not sure if STraM allows this as I've never tried). Since then I record all sessions in real time, and find FBA to be excellent - especially the ease in which I can compare similar sessions by overlaying the HR data. I've gained a far better understanding of my own HR response in the last 6 months, which really enables me to get the best out of workouts, and improves my mental strength during long pieces when the HR gives me a real-time understanding of how hard a session really is and can shut up those HD demons!

I'd agree with Lee on the Activity Class - I do an hour each morning, and have been at 8.5 for much of the last year. I did allow it to go up to 9.0 this month as I've been doing longer sessions, but that'll drop back down again. I never use the Coach function, and don't take the TE personally - my FM earlier this month gave me a TE of 2.3, and an HM the following week 2.0. I have only achieved a TE over 4.0 once this month, but I know how hard I'm working and don't really pay any attention to that measure, especially given that as Lee suggests, it is useless when it comes to intervals because the rest period allows the EPOC to drop, and so the peak EPOC (which in my experience affects the TE most) doesn't get as high as during a longer piece

Despite the imitations - I like the software, and felt that the £65 outlay was worth the money for the use I get out of it

Doc RowSlo · Post by **Doc RowSlo** » Thu May 12, 2011 7:32 am

Mat wrote: I'd agree with Lee on the Activity Class - I do an hour each morning, and have been at 8.5 for much of the last year. I did allow it to go up to 9.0 this month as I've been doing longer sessions, but that'll drop back down again. I never use the Coach function, and don't take the TE personally - my FM earlier this month gave me a TE of 2.3, and an HM the following week 2.0. I have only achieved a TE over 4.0 once this month, but I know how hard I'm working and don't really pay any attention to that measure, especially given that as Lee suggests, it is useless when it comes to intervals because the rest period allows the EPOC to drop, and so the peak EPOC (which in my experience affects the TE most) doesn't get as high as during a longer piece

Altering the AC only changes the TE number that the algorithmn generates, so if this is not important to you, you may as well leave it on 8.5 or 9.0 and forget about it. The EPOC value seems to be the least "fudged" of all of the numbers that the program churns out, so that's the one that I'm taking the most notice of these days when comparing workouts.

Huw Thomas · Post by **Huw Thomas** » Thu May 12, 2011 9:07 am

I have just loaded movescount onto the machine with the PC-POD and FB athlete and the live recording of HR to FB athlete stopped working - even if movescount is not loaded (edit - thanks Stan - ie right click on icon and exit)

THe existing (old) suunto PC pod drivers are not compatible and are removed by the latest suunto movecoumt drivers, and a simple uninstall of movescount didn't work

I had to uninstall movecount, resinstall PCpod/ TM and finally restore windows to an earlier time to get it working again.

Beware the newest Movescount PCPOD drivers guys if you like "live" HR stream into FBA

I will move the PCPOD usb dongle to a different machine to upload watch data to Movescount and then back for the live stuff

Huw

Stan · Post by **Stan** » Thu May 12, 2011 7:15 pm

I had a similar problem at the beginning. Movescount prevented firstbeat dowloading data from the T6. The problem was solved by right clicking on the movescount icon at the bottom right of the computer screen and selecting "quit". Firstbeat then worked fine. Huws problem sounds a bit different but I thought this would be worth posting in case anybody else has the same issue.

slwiser · Post by **slwiser** » Thu May 12, 2011 9:55 pm

Stan, this may be a new issue with the new version that tried to install itself today for me. I chose not to install it but did request a feedback asking them if they built the USB drivers for this version to break other software such as FBA and STM.

Hunkydory · Post by **Hunkydory** » Wed May 18, 2011 5:19 pm

Hi Folks,

I'm new to Free Spirits (hi

) in fact this is my first post !

In an effort to motivate myself back on to the rower, after a successful weight loss program last year which is failing miserably this year, I've invested in what I thought was the correct kit to use FBA, namely:

Dual HRM ((which is talking happily to the erg)
Movestick (came unexpectedly as a Movestick Mini)
FBA itself

The gear has arrived, but can I get everything to talk together ? Nooo.....

I have not installed any of the Moveslink drivers, nor registered with Movescount, due to paranoia resulting from previous posts on how Movescount conflicts with FBA, and the problem may be as simple as doing this.

Can anybody advise a) whether I've collected the right kit, and b) how I can get the HRM to talk to FBA without the Movescount problems ?

Thanks

Richard

Stan · Post by **Stan** » Wed May 18, 2011 6:31 pm

Hi Hunkydunky and welcome to Free Spirits

I think Steve Wiser or Doc Rowslo are probably best qualified to comment on the above problem. You didnt mention the make of HRM you bought?
Once you have the issues sorted, look forward to seeing your progress.

Mat · Post by **Mat** » Wed May 18, 2011 6:37 pm

Hi Richard, and welcome to the team and the forum

I'm assuming that the HRM is a Suunto (as you refer to it as a "dual"), and that the "Movestick" is the same as what I bought when it was called a "Pc Pod". Given these two assumptions, I can't really understand why the HRM won't talk to FBA through the stick.

I actually paired a new Suunto Dual this afternoon (long story), and it was simply a question of putting on the HRM, clicking the "Training Monitor" icon in FBA and it found the new Dual HRM straightaway. Perhaps your movestick hasn't been installed/found by FBA??

As Stan suggests, Steve or Lee (or perhaps Huw) may be better placed to help you - sorry

Mat

Edit - perhaps it may have something to do with this...

Huw Thomas wrote:I have just loaded movescount onto the machine with the PC-POD and FB athlete and the live recording of HR to FB athlete stopped working - even if movescount is not loaded (edit - thanks Stan - ie right click on icon and exit)

THe existing (old) suunto PC pod drivers are not compatible and are removed by the latest suunto movecoumt drivers, and a simple uninstall of movescount didn't work

I had to uninstall movecount, resinstall PCpod/ TM and finally restore windows to an earlier time to get it working again.

Beware the newest Movescount PCPOD drivers guys if you like "live" HR stream into FBA

Hunkydory · Post by **Hunkydory** » Wed May 18, 2011 6:51 pm

Thanks for the welcome and the help, Stan and Mat !

Yes, its a Suunto "Dual Comfort" belt.

All I've done is plug the stick in, put on the HRM and confirmed the PM3 could read it, although I accept that's a different channel to the one read by the USB stick, then loaded Firstbeat and attempted to link - nothing.

The movestick came with no separate drivers, and I've not attempted to load any, primarily due to the post by Huw that you have copied above. Before I got the kit I confirmed with Firstbeat that the SW would talk to a movestick, as opposed to the old PC Pod. The response was that "compatible Movestick drivers are delivered with the ATHLETE installation package".

My suspicion is that I need drivers of some sort but am scared to go near anything with "Moves" in the name !.

Thanks

Richard

Mat · Post by **Mat** » Wed May 18, 2011 7:17 pm

I've just found out the packaging from my "PC Pod" to find that it is a "Movestick" after all

I did install Movescount first of all (and through that, no doubt installed the Movestick Driver). I didn't like Movescount however which is why I then installed FBA, which I was able to run with the Movestick without any problems, although I later un-installed Movescount anyway.

Don't know if this helps

In case it makes any difference, the version of FBA I have is 2.0.0.6 (3.1.3ov)

Hunkydory · Post by **Hunkydory** » Wed May 18, 2011 7:51 pm

That gives me more confidence Mat - I think I'll hang fire a bit to see in Messrs Wiser or RoW Slo come across this, but based on your comments I'll probably bite the bullet and load Moveslink/count and see what happens.

Your help is much appreciated,

Richard

Hunkydory · Post by **Hunkydory** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:37 am

For anybody considering FBA, I've just had confirmation from Firstbeat that it will not operate with a Suunto Mini Movestick:

"Unfortunately Athlete is not compatible with the Suunto Movestick Mini version. Compatible devices are Suunto PC Pod, Team Pod and Suunto Movestick. Mini version is not supported."

....a "normal" movestick should be coming my way shortly !

Cheers

Richard

Doc RowSlo · Post by **Doc RowSlo** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:09 pm

Sorry Richard, I hadn't seen your posts.
I'm sure that the new PC Pod or equivalent will sort the problem but you will need to install the appropriate driver. If that doesn't happen under "plug and play" when you connect the pod, then you'll need to do it via FBA in the set up option, or via the FirstBeat Technologies website.

Connection should then occur between pod, pc and dual belt when you hit the Training Monitor icon in FBA. No pairing required.

Hope that helps.

Nice to see that you've got a new belt Mat. I'm on my 11th now

Hunkydory · Post by **Hunkydory** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:17 am

Thanks Doc - hopefully all will be OK once I get the "maxi" movestick, but if there are any problems I'll try out your suggested solutions.

Cheers

Richard

slwiser · Post by **slwiser** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:00 pm

I allowed Movescount to upgrade itself this morning and it killed my access to Firstbeat Athlete which is far better than Movescount will ever be. It also killed my access to my Suunto Training Manager software which is also far better than Movescount. I did the restore thing. Movescount continues to prove itself to be a failed effort on Suunto's part to enhanse my experience.

Huw Thomas · Post by **Huw Thomas** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:04 am

slwiser wrote:I allowed Movescount to upgrade itself this morning and it killed my access to Firstbeat Athlete which is far better than Movescount will ever be. It also killed my access to my Suunto Training Manager software which is also far better than Movescount. I did the restore thing. Movescount continues to prove itself to be a failed effort on Suunto's part to enhanse my experience.

....Glad it went back ok

Useless - suunto and firstbeat need to talk ....and soon !!

billwright · Post by **billwright** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:39 pm

FAQ from Movescount:

Why can't I connect to my other Suunto software after Moveslink installation?
Moveslink is occupying the connection and that's why other Suunto software can't recognize your device. You should stop Moveslink if you wish to use some other software. You can do this by right clicking the small Moveslink notification icon and choosing Quit. Next time you want to transfer Moves to Movescount make sure you have the Moveslink up and running again!

I joined Movescount but it seems just like another social networking site with fancy graphs. I might be missing the point? I use Training Manager to keep all the heart and respiration stuff.

Bill

Doc RowSlo · Post by **Doc RowSlo** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:07 pm

billwright wrote:FAQ from Movescount:

Why can't I connect to my other Suunto software after Moveslink installation?
Moveslink is occupying the connection and that's why other Suunto software can't recognize your device. You should stop Moveslink if you wish to use some other software. You can do this by right clicking the small Moveslink notification icon and choosing Quit. Next time you want to transfer Moves to Movescount make sure you have the Moveslink up and running again!

Well spotted Bill. This is also true when trying to use FBA and STraM simultaneously (certainly you can't upload data files from the t6 when both programs are running)

billwright wrote:I joined Movescount but it seems just like another social networking site with fancy graphs. I might be missing the point? I use Training Manager to keep all the heart and respiration stuff.

No, I don't think that you are missing anything Bill

Movescount is beta software and doesn't deserve to progress any further without a major overhaul IMO. It seems to be an attempt to appeal to the masses along the lines that you suggest. It's certainly a poor substitute for serious training tools like STraM and FBA.