L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by strider77 »

Paul Victory wrote:- Well done on the SB Alan. I had an OK waterfall yesterday. I did the 3k a bit faster than previously, but was slower on the 2.5k and 2k - overall time 1.7 seconds slower than previous attempt - 27:57.5 @ 1:51.8 pace.

I find the 2k TT very daunting psychologically, but was hoping to get somewhere near my SB of 6:53.5 this morning. I started off OK, but ran out of steam around teh half way mark and it took a strong final 250m to get sub 7. Splits were as follows:

Distance Time Pace Rating Heart Rate
250 0:50.7 1:41.40 34 147
500 0:51.8 1:43.60 36 155
750 0:52.8 1:45.60 34 157
1000 0:53.1 1:46.20 34 158
1250 0:53.8 1:47.60 35 160
1500 0:54.0 1:48.00 32 161
1750 0:53.4 1:46.80 34 164
2000 0:49.6 1:39.20 36 165

2000 6:59.2 1:44.80 34 158

Tomorrow is supposed to be my day off, but I may put in some meters as we are coming up to the end of the FTC. I'll see how I feel tomorrow.

Paul V
Wow well done Paul =D> ^O^

Sub 7 at 60++ is amazing, I would give my eye teeth to go Sub 7 again.

Regarding BRIC assuming the usual suspects I expect Richard Steventon for Gold, the Silver and Bronze between your good self and Ken Lake who is getting quicker all the time 6:49.9 at the moment.

Then the rest of us.......
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by Caratacus »

That's some final 250m Paul. ^O^ ^O^ ^O^ Such great determination to go sub 7, really impressive
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by Paul Victory »

strider77 wrote:Wow well done Paul =D> ^O^

Sub 7 at 60++ is amazing, I would give my eye teeth to go Sub 7 again.

Regarding BRIC assuming the usual suspects I expect Richard Steventon for Gold, the Silver and Bronze between your good self and Ken Lake who is getting quicker all the time 6:49.9 at the moment.

Then the rest of us.......
Thanks Alan. Actually, Ken Lake will be taking part in a 1k in Berlin that weekend, so that should make medalling a bit easier. Now, if I can just remember to strap in before the race starts. :lol:
Caratacus wrote:That's some final 250m Paul. ^O^ ^O^ ^O^ Such great determination to go sub 7, really impressive
Thanks Felton.
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by gregsmith01748 »

Paul: That 2K time trial shows some tremendous grit!

I think that you have another 8 seconds or so that would come off the 2K time. First, you did a tough waterfall workout the day before. Second, the times for your waterfall were a bit off your best. I think that shows that you are carrying a lot of training related fatigue. I don't see that as bad, but if you taper for a race or something, your 2K time will drop like a stone if you go into the trial rested and ready.

Seriously, kudos for an fantastic finish.
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by Paul Victory »

Thanks Greg. I agree that I'm probably carrying a bit of training related fatigue. In addition to the WP, I've been trying to do as many meters as possible for the FTC and have done over 400k in the 24 days I've rowed during the challenge. I also consumed a fair bit of alcohol yesterday watching Ireland beat France in the Rugby World Cup and lose to Poland in the European Championship Qualifiers, so probably not the best preparation for a 2k TT. :oops: #-o

Anyway, I'm due to do another 2k TT in six weeks time and that will probably be a better indication of where I'm going to be at BRIC. I also intend to do a more focused attempt at the mile for the IRL before month end.
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by strider77 »

It was L1 time again yesterday, the last time I did the 4 x 1k session was 4 weeks ago and I managed 1:46.7 so target was to get under 1:46.

Results below, last time in brackets

14:15.9-1:45.7-35
3:33.5-1:45.7-34)1:46.8
3:35.1-1:45.9-35)1:47.5
3:33.8-1:45.9-36)1:46.9
3:31.6-1:45.3-37)1:45.8

So 1.0secs/500 improvement on the previous effort :D

Since I restarted the plan the progression has been 1:48.0-1:46.8-1:46.7-1:45.7

If I can get these down to 1:43.7 then Sub 7 is on - still some way to go :twisted:
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by Paul Victory »

Nice 4 x 1k, Alan. I thought that was considered a good indicator of 2k pace, so I'd say you're pretty close to sub 7 at this stage.

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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by strider77 »

Paul Victory wrote:- Nice 4 x 1k, Alan. I thought that was considered a good indicator of 2k pace, so I'd say you're pretty close to sub 7 at this stage.

Paul V
Hi Paul thanks for your kind comments :D

4 x 1k is normally reckoned to be about 2k + 1 so 1:45.7 would give me 1:46.7 for 2k so 7:06.8 for the 2k which is about right-if I was not such a wuss on my 2k TT on Saturday I would have been closer to 7:06.8 than the 7:09.7 I achieved :oops:

If I had taken 2-3 days off before I reckon 7:06 was do-able but I still have some way to go yet for Sub 7-back to the training which seems to be working so far :wink:
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by Paul Victory »

Actually, I think you've got that adjustment backwards, Alan. The following is an extract from the Pete Plan

I know everyone is different, but I still want to know what are good times for each of the interval sessions!

Ok, but these are neither targets for the first time you try a session, or even for the longer term.

8 x 500m = 3seconds faster than 2k pb pace (2k – 3)

Speed pyramid = 2k pb pace (2k)

4 x 1000m = 1second slower than 2k pb pace (2k + 1)


If you go on the above, your 4 x 1k would give you a suggested 2k time of 6:58.8. Personally, when I was doing the PP, I found 2k - 3 about right for the 8 x 500m, but thought that the pyramid was around 2k - 2 pace and the 4 x 1k around 2k pace. But even that would give you 7:02.8, which is getting very close to sub 7.

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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by gregsmith01748 »

Fantastic 4x1K and really impressive progression over the last few rounds.

I was about to say the same thing as Paul. My 4x1K split have always ended up about 1 to 2 seconds slower than my 2K pace.

I did a 4x1K two week s before the 2014 CRASH-Bs at 1:41.0. At the CRASH-Bs, I went 1:39.4 for 2K.

As Paul points out, your mileage may vary, but I for one think you are on for a sub-7 if you did a 2KTT with fresh legs.
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by Paul Victory »

Straight 12k L3 for me today. Last time I did this, I blew up after 8k, but managed to keep going and eventually finished just marginally inside my 1:59.1 target pace, at 1:58.9. Today, I decided to target 1:58 pace and see how things went.

It was a bit of a struggle right from the start and I felt a bit of a twinge in my left forearm after about 5k. My pace fell to below 2:00 and it was a real struggle not to HD. But I plugged away at around 2:00 to 2:02 pace for another 4k and then tried pulling a fast ten to see if I could break the pattern. Surprisingly, I got into a better rhythm at higher cadence and managed to get back down to around 1:58 pace for the final 3k. Overall, I just missed the 1:59.1 target, finishing in 47:41.1 @ 1:59.2 pace. I think it was more muscular than cardiovascular fatigue, as my HR didn't get over 150 until the final 2k. Maybe not having the day off yesterday caught up with me.

Splits were as follows:

Distance Time Pace Rating Heart Rate
2000 7:52.9 1:58.23 29 137
4000 7:53.3 1:58.32 29 141
6000 7:57.8 1:59.45 28 143 :evil:
8000 8:04.7 2:01.18 27 147 :evil: :oops: #-o
10000 7:59.3 1:59.83 27 149 :evil:
12000 7:53.1 1:58.27 28 157

12000 47:41.1 01:59.21 28 145
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by gregsmith01748 »

Paul: More true grit! Well done hanging in through the crisis.
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by Huw Thomas »

First 4x2k 5r in a very very long time
Went out way to fast

Stuck it out though

Code: Select all

Workout Summary - Oct 14, 2015
--|Total|-Total-|Total|-Total-|--Avg--|Avg-|-Total-|-Max-
--|Dist-|-Time--|Dist-|-Time--|-Pace--|SPM-|Strokes|-HR--
--|08000|29:51.9|08000|29:51.9|01:52.0|27.9| 0833  |170.0
Workout Details
#-|EDist|-Etime-|SDist|-Split-|-SPace-|SPM-|Strokes|MaxHR
01|02000|07:12.7|02000|07:12.7|01:48.2|28.7| 0207  |160.0
02|04000|14:39.0|02000|07:26.3|01:51.6|27.8| 0207  |164.0
03|06000|22:12.9|02000|07:33.9|01:53.5|27.4| 0207  |170.0
04|08000|29:51.9|02000|07:39.0|01:54.8|27.7| 0212  |169.0 
phew
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by Paul Victory »

Wow! That was a fast first 2k! Well done for sticking it out. =D> =D> =D>
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by strider77 »

gregsmith wrote:-
Fantastic 4x1K and really impressive progression over the last few rounds.

I was about to say the same thing as Paul. My 4x1K split have always ended up about 1 to 2 seconds slower than my 2K pace.

I did a 4x1K two week s before the 2014 CRASH-Bs at 1:41.0. At the CRASH-Bs, I went 1:39.4 for 2K.

As Paul points out, your mileage may vary, but I for one think you are on for a sub-7 if you did a 2KTT with fresh legs.
Cheers Greg and Paul I appreciate your comments-Alan :wink:

Great stuff Huw its good to see you back erging that's a really hard way to do the 4 x 2ks =D> :shock:

Paul the only way I can manage the plan is to go a lot slower than you do on the L3s, most of my L3 rows are 15k or rarely as tonight 10k or possibly 30 mins but nowadays I do them all at 70% HRR which coupled with an L1 session every week and occasionally an L2, 2k TT or CTC seems to be working for me :D

Where I fall down compared to you is in manning up on my TTs :oops:

I will take 2-3 days off before my next TT in a few weeks time and see if I can find some cojones :twisted:
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by Paul Victory »

Alan, I think you're underestimating your current form and I really hope you decide to take part in BRIC. Based on February's results and your current form, you would be a shoo in for a medal.

Today I was scheduled to do an L1 and I actually did the scheduled challenge for the first time since I started doing the WP. :roll: :fswink: In previous weeks, I either did that months CTC or that month's IRL.

I considered having a go at this month's CTC today, but didn't feel up to a full on 15 x 1', so I did the scheduled 8 x 500m instead, with a 1:43 target. The first few were a struggle, but I managed to get into a reasonable rhythm for the last 4 and I even managed to do a fast last and finish in 13:41.1 @ 1:42.6 pace. Splits were as follows:

Distance Time Pace Rating Heart Rate
500 1:43.9 1:43.9 34 136
1000 2:13.7 2:13.7 25 113
1500 1:42.9 1:42.9 36 152
2000 2:17.3 2:17.3 24 121
2500 1:43.7 1:43.7 35 157
3000 2:17.2 2:17.2 23 121
3500 1:43.6 1:43.6 34 162
4000 2:17.3 2:17.3 22 130
4500 1:42.7 1:42.7 35 166
5000 2:16.2 2:16.2 22 134
5500 1:42.8 1:42.8 34 168
6000 2:17.6 2:17.6 22 137
6500 1:42.9 1:42.9 34 170
7000 2:17.8 2:17.8 22 141
7500 1:38.6 1:38.6 38 178
8000 2:07.8 2:07.8 24 153

4000 13:41.1 1:42.6 35 161
4000 18:04.9 2:15.6 23 131
8000 31:46.0 1:59.1 29 146

This was a bit slower than what I did in the PP, but I presume the shorter rest and the fact that it's active rather than passive rest must make a difference.

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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by Paul Victory »

By the way, I finished the final sprint with a HR of 178, which I think is a new high for me this season. :shock: It just shows what a rubbish idea the whole 220 - age rule is. :roll:

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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by dr3do »

You are younger, Paul. That's why the formula is rubbish.
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by Paul Victory »

Thanks Boris. I feel younger (sometimes!). :lol:
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by Paul Victory »

Having rowed on my day off last Tuesday, I felt very tired yesterday and couldn't face doing a 4 x2k session, or anything else for that matter, so I took a day off. Had a very moochie day and ate and drank a bit too much.

Today was scheduled to be an L4, but I just didn't feel like going a rate restricted row and decided to do a free rate HM instead. I'd no idea how this would go, figuring it could be anywhere between an SB and 90 minutes, but my main objective was just to finish it and reach 100k for the week for the 4th time in the last 5 weeks.

SB pace would be around 1:58 and it took about 1k for me to realise that this wasn't going to happen so I decided to just go for long steady distance with the objective of keeping my splits below 2:05. I managed to avoid having any 2k split slower than 2:05 pace, but didn't try to sprint towards the end and my HR was at 140 or below until the final few kilometres. Finished in 1:27:15.9 @ 2:04.1 pace, 26 SPM, average HR 138, max HR 146.

Tomorrow is an L2 and I'll try to get back on the program.
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by Paul Victory »

Quite happy with today's L2 - 5 x 1500m + 1000r. It's the first time I've managed to get under the 1:51.5 target split for an L2 and I finally seem to be getting the hang of this active rest lark. Target was 1:51 pace with a faster last and I achieved this and almost managed a negative split throughout. Splits were as follows:

Split Time Pace Rating Heart Rate
1500 5:32.5 1:50.83 32 134
1000 4:26.6 2:13.30 25 118
1500 5:32.7 1:50.90 32 159
1000 4:30.8 2:15.40 23 125
1500 5:31.6 1:50.53 31 164
1000 4:31.9 2:15.95 23 130
1500 5:31.3 1:50.43 32 167
1000 4:34.4 2:17.20 23 138
1500 5:26.4 1:48.80 33 173
1000 4:08.1 2:04.05 26 151

7500 27:34.5 1:50.30 32 159
5000 22:11.8 2:13.18 24 132
12500 49:46.3 1:59.45 28 145

Couple of things I noticed about this. I averaged 32 SPM for the 1500s versus 29 last time round - this seemed to work a lot better. In spite of the higher rating, my HR was somewhat lower than last time, averaging 159 versus 164 and 132 versus 134, although my max HR at the end of the 5th 1500m was the same, at 173. And this was in spite of doing the active rest around 3 seconds per 500m faster than last time. Hopefully, this is a sign that I'm getting fitter (and becoming more accustomed to active rest) although I guess it could just be that today was one of those days when things go better than expected.

Anyway, onwards and upwards. L3 scheduled for tomorrow and a rest day on Tuesday.

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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by strider77 »

Well done Paul nice job
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by Huw Thomas »

well done Paul

me - 3k pyramid: - 3k, 2.5, 2k 5r 1:53.9 av
1:54,8, 1:53.5, 1:52,8

looking after my back today - lifting boats
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by Paul Victory »

Nice pyramid Huw.

L3 for me today - 2 x 6k + 7'r. last time I averaged 1:56.6, but that was after a day off. I figured it might be difficult to match that after doing a fairly hard L2 yesterday and this indeed proved to be the case. I decided to aim to keep my 2k splits below 7:50 and I almost achieved, but misjudged the finish to the first 2k split of the second 6k. Wasn't helped by a malfunctioning HRM which didn't allow me to see whether I had managed to get my HR down during the 7 minutes active rest.

Finished in 46:56.1 @ 1:57.3 pace, which was exactly 17 seconds slower than last time. Splits were as follows:

Distance Time Pace Rating
2000 7:48.2 1:57.05 29
4000 7:49.8 1:57.45 28
6000 7:49.3 1:57.32 28
8000 7:50.0 1:57.50 29 :evil:
10000 7:49.7 1:57.43 29
12000 7:49.2 1:57.30 29

12000 46:56.1 01:57.34 28
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by strider77 »

Very nice Waterfall Huw especially after so long off the erg =D>

Nice L3 Paul =D>

I was down for an L1 tonight 8 x 500 but had a really long day yesterday with over 200 miles round trip on business (M25 etc-aghhhh) so will do an L3 or L4 tonight and do the 500s tomorrow night.
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