L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by billwright »

Lovely 70' row Alan. Music or TV to accompany you? :D

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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by strider77 »

billwright wrote:-Lovely 70' row Alan. Music or TV to accompany you? :D
Nope Bill just had my mate Pete for company in the gym who was really suffering and I made it worse by every now and then telling him how low my HR was :lol:

Seriously Pete is 6 ft 3 ins and 47 and the same weight as me around 90kg and if he trained 5-6 days a week on the erg as I do would be slaughtering me but he was feeling it on Friday, he kicked my butt last year-did 10k in 38:20 and was beating me on these rows too so I am going to enjoy it while I can :wink:
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by strider77 »

Another L3 for me-the hour of power done with a mate in a hot humid room with no ventilation at another gym from my normal one, luckily there were carpets rather than wooden floors as in my usual gym or the ergs would have floated away :oops: :lol:

60'-14802-2:01.8-27
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by Huw Thomas »

Nice hour of power!

Just a relaxing ut1 30 mins for me

Code: Select all

Workout Summary - Aug 28, 2014
--|Total|-Total-|Total|-Total-|--Avg--|Avg-|-Max-
--|Dist-|-Time--|Dist-|-Time--|-Pace--|SPM-|-HR--
--|07501|30:00.0|07501|30:00.0|02:00.0|24.7|155.0
Workout Details
#-|EDist|-Etime-|SDist|-Split-|-SPace-|SPM-|MaxHR
01|02493|10:00.0|02493|10:00.0|02:00.3|26.4|140.0
02|05006|20:00.0|02512|10:00.0|01:59.4|24.1|147.0
03|07501|30:00.0|02496|10:00.0|02:00.2|23.5|155.0
pm3 gave me 7500 exactly :oops: :oops:

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Ut2 130-137 (1:59+) ut1 138-151 (1:53+) AT 152-161 (1:48+) TR 162-171 (1:38+) AN 172+ (<1:38)
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by strider77 »

Huw Thomas wrote :- pm3 gave me 7500 exactly :oops: :oops:
Cheers Huw-should this not have been on the OCD thread :lol: :wink:

Are you watching La Vuelta ?

I fancy Froome to win-what do you think ?
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by strider77 »

Short L3 today

19:49.7-5000-1:58.9-26
4:11.8-2:05.9-21
4:04.3-2:02.1-24
3:56.6-1:58.3-27
3:52.3-1:56.1-28
3:44.7-1:52.3-31

Tomorrow if I have the Cojones it will be an L2 session-4 x 2k

Sunday will be 60' L4
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by billwright »

Haven't rowed for a couple of days so missed what's going on here good stuff from Alan and Huw's relaxed 30' would have been all but flat out for me on a good day. :lol:

A bit of a tester today to see if the back would hold out in a good hard 1000m. Answer: Okayish, a bit of a twinge in the 3:56.7 effort in the Rt SI. I don't know if that is nerve related or slack muscles. So three x 1000m with 1000m rest
04:43.1 1000 23 WU
04:16.0 1000 24
04:53.5 1000 22 Rest
04:10.0 1000 24
04:30.0 1000 25 Rest
03:56.7 1000 29
04:53.4 1000 25 Rest
04:59.4 1000 21 CD

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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by strider77 »

Well done Bill-getting there mate :wink:

I am continuing with the WP but with slight variations.

Was meant to do 4 x 2k on Saturday but I have always struggled to get a 4th done at a reasonable lick so just did the 3 this Saturday.

7:42.2-1:55.5-26
r6' active rest covered 1428m
7:38.9-1:54.7-26
r6'-covered 1313m
7:35.9-1:53,9-26
r6'-covered 1268m

Sunday was a hotchpotch hour, did a semi-serious L4 for 5 x 10' based loosely around 180 strokes in 10' then for the last 10' did 30 secs on 30 secs off at 1:42 pace

Finished with 60'-14229m-2:06.5-22

This morning did my first 4 mins of the Season in preparation for the C2 Challenge-managed 1148m which is 5m more than last year.

E mailed Indoor Sports the people who used to be the rowing company and before that used to be C2 UK as there has been no news of the Challenge, they are having meetings this week to see if its going ahead, will keep you posted.
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by strider77 »

Long L3 last night, back to L4s tomorrow morning :D

70'-16756-2:05.3-23
2409-2:04.5-24
2398-2:05.1-24
2409-2:04.5-24
2406-2:04.6-23
2372-2:06.4-23
2381-2:05.9-23
2380-2:06.0-22
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by strider77 »

Early morning row in gym-L4

L4-40'-180 based on Ref Pace of 1:47 so 2323 giving 9292 for 40'

40'-9429-2:07.4-18 (+137)
2355(+32)
2330(+7)
2380(+57)
2364(+41)

Total strokes 714 against standard 720 (4 x 180)

This felt easier than the last two I have done.

Reasons for the variations some mates were speaking to me on the second 10' and completely threw my rhythm grrrr
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by Huw Thomas »

great effort Alan
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by Huw Thomas »

Needed a recovery type row after cycle yesterday
decided on a L4 180x2 184x2 assuming ref pace of 1:45

Paces for SR 16=2:11 18=2:07 20=2:03 22= 1:58
Distance 180=2367m 184=2382m

Felt fairly comfortable as the HR chart shows
stroke power very up and down but segment pace ok
9 strokes under and 1m over :-D

180 (-5 2365 (-2)
180 (-1) 2369 (+2)
184 (-4) 2384 (+2)
184 (+1) 2381 (-1)

Code: Select all

Workout Summary - Oct 06, 2014
--|Total|-Total-|Total|-Total-|--Avg--|Avg-|-Total-|-Max-
--|Dist-|-Time--|Dist-|-Time--|-Pace--|SPM-|Strokes|-HR--
--|09498|40:00.0|09498|40:00.0|02:06.3|18.0| 0719  |145.0
Workout Details
#-|EDist|-Etime-|SDist|-Split-|-SPace-|SPM-|Strokes|MaxHR
01|02365|10:00.0|02365|10:00.0|02:06.9|17.5| 0175  |130.0
02|04734|20:00.0|02369|10:00.0|02:06.7|17.9| 0179  |137.0
03|07117|30:00.0|02384|10:00.0|02:05.9|18.0| 0180  |144.0
04|09498|40:00.0|02381|10:00.0|02:06.0|18.5| 0185  |145.0
TE 2.2
Aged 61, 182 cm 80 kg.
Image
Ut2 130-137 (1:59+) ut1 138-151 (1:53+) AT 152-161 (1:48+) TR 162-171 (1:38+) AN 172+ (<1:38)
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by strider77 »

Tidy Huw :D

Based on your recent Pete Plan sessions I think you are more than capable of sub 7 :D
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by Huw Thomas »

L3 30 mins 7802 - see Pp thread
4x1k or 4x2k later this week - perhaps both - plus some sufferfests :o
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by strider77 »

Well done Huw :D
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by sander »

I do not have time or energy to describe what sucks all my energy away in the past 2 weeks. Lots of difficult things at work. Spent a lot of time firefighting and correcting very big communication mistakes.

Arrived home much later than I wanted.

Tired.

Exhausted.

When I had used all my energy to talk to myself and tell myself to just go to the erg and do the training, the phone rang. A colleague with some questions. Important enough to sort out immediately. Another 30 minutes gone.

Still I went down and did the warming up.

Doubting that I would have the mental energy to do this 4x2km.

At target pace 1:53.6. Doable under normal circumstances.

Started anyway.

Needed a lot of concentration but finished the 2km in 1:53.3.

Then another 2km. And another one. And the final one. Each of them was a victory.

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Code: Select all

Workout Summary - Nov 27, 2014
--|Total|-Total-|--Avg--|-Avg-|Avg-|-Avg-|-Max-
--|Dist-|-Time--|-Pace--|Watts|SPM-|-HR--|-HR--
--|08000|30:11.4|01:53.2|241.2|25.5|171.5|183.0
Workout Details
#-|SDist|-Split-|-SPace-|Watts|SPM-|AvgHR|MaxHR|Comments
01|02000|07:33.1|01:53.3|240.9|24.8|164.2|175.0|
02|02000|07:33.1|01:53.3|240.8|25.2|172.4|179.0|
03|02000|07:32.8|01:53.2|241.3|25.8|174.2|181.0|
04|02000|07:32.4|01:53.1|241.9|26.1|175.0|183.0|
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by Paul Victory »

Well done on toughing it out. =D> =D> =D>
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by strider77 »

Thats 4 great victories Sander very well done =D> =D> =D> =D>
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by Paul Victory »

Yesterday was day two on the Wolverine Plan for me. The prescribed L3 session was 4 x 3k @ 1:59.1 pace, rating 24 to 28 with 3 to 4 minute rest intervals. The target pace of 1:59.1 is calculated by reference to a target pace of 1:53 for the 2k. As it was my first time doing this, I decided to err on the side of caution and set the rest intervals to 4 minutes.

If I'm interpreting the plan correctly, the L3 sessions are the 'easy' ones as they are not that fast and they are not at extremely low ratings and 4 x 3k is the easiest of the L3 sessions (the others being 2 x 6k with 7 to 8 minutes rest and a straight 12k - at the same 1:59.1 pace). I found the session quite doable but not all that easy and my rating was creeping up to 29 or even 30 some of the time, although I always managed to bring it back down to 26 or 27 and averaged 28 for each of the four sessions.

My splits were as follows:

Time Pace Rating HR
11:52.1 1:58.6 28 148
11:51.2 1:58.5 28 157
11:50.9 1:58.4 28 163
11:50.2 1:58.3 28 168

47:24.4 1:58.5 28

As can be seen from the above, I managed to keep all four intervals slightly ahead of the prescribed pace with a slight negative split and just about stayed within the recommended rating of 24 to 28. My HR was quite high at the end, at around 95% of my estimated MHR of 177.

I have a few questions for those of you familiar with the WP and would be grateful for any guidance you can provide as I would like to follow the principles of the program as closely as possible (although I won't be following the program precisely on every day as I will be trying to fit in the CTC, IRL and FaceBook C2 monthly challenge when I can).

1. Should I be aiming to stick as closely as possible to the target pace of 1:59.1 or should I be trying to beat this pace by as much as possible?

2. Is it important to stay within the recommended stroke rate range of 24 to 28?

3. Should I be concerned that my HR got so high at the end of the easiest of the 'easy' sessions?

Thanks in advance for any advice/recommendations.

Paul V
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by gregsmith01748 »

Paul Victory wrote:
1. Should I be aiming to stick as closely as possible to the target pace of 1:59.1 or should I be trying to beat this pace by as much as possible?
I always treated them as guidelines and tried to make sure I could negative split, but otherwise I was happy when I could go faster and use t as a marker for next time.
2. Is it important to stay within the recommended stroke rate range of 24 to 28?
I wouldn't want to go lower, but higher is ok. My logic is that the L4s are such low rate and high pressure that the L3 is a good counterpoint to make sure that you can rate up and row efficiently with a lighter stroke too. But that's just my opinion.
3. Should I be concerned that my HR got so high at the end of the easiest of the 'easy' sessions?
I never thought of them as the easy sessions. I didn't row them with a cap. When I did the WP as my main diet, I ended up going easier on the L4s by using a 2k target that was about 2 seconds off of my most recent 2k pace. I didn't use a HR cap, but I tracked HR and if it got too high, like the avg hr was above my UT1 upper bound, I would back down to an easier stroke sequence. Even doing that, I would have been challenged trying to do a 18/20/18... Kind of session. L4s are surprisingly hard (at least for me)

It sounds like you might have a different reference document for the plan. Here's the one I used.
http://www.concept2.com/files/pdf/us/tr ... nePlan.pdf

I didn't see anything about L3s being easy. And the 15x3'/1' rest L3 is probably my favorite hard workout of all time!
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by Paul Victory »

Thanks Greg

I'm about to go and do an L4 2 x 20' session. The times shown on the chart on the document you sent me are 2:00 for R20 and 2:04 for R18, so this is consistent with what's on the spreadsheet I was sent by Richard.

Regarding the L3s being 'easy', I'm basing this on the assumption that the Wolverine Plan allows for some 'recovery' rows (as per the Pete Plan), but maybe the idea is that you train hard six days a week and use the rest day for recovery. None of the sessions seem particularly easy, but the L3s seem to be the least difficult, although maybe it will prove to be the L4s when I get more accustomed to rowing at a slow rating.

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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by Paul Victory »

Paul Victory wrote:I'm about to go and do an L4 2 x 20' session.
Session done. Pretty much the same number of meters as the straight 40' I did on Thursday, but I was more accurate with the stroke rate. All 10 of the R20 were at R20, but 4 of the R18 splits crept up to R19. I averaged 2:01.9 for the R20 and 2:04.2 for the R18. I had seven minutes rest between the two intervals and rowed on for 30 seconds after the first interval and started rowing 30 seconds before the second interval. I'll trying doing active rest for the full 7 minutes next time round.

Tomorrow is a straight 12k L3 session.

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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by strider77 »

Hi Paul

I am keen to do the WP again so am posting here and in the PP at the moment :wink:

First L4 session for a long while this morning in the gym

2k warm up
DF130
4 x 10 ' - 180 so thats 4'@16spm, 3'@18spm, 2'@20spm and 1'@22spm x 4

Using a ref pace of 1:47 for the 2k the metres shouild be 2305 for each 10'-so I overshot a bit, I need to exercise more discipline

2328(+23)
2333(+28)
2324(+19)
2369(+64)

Total 9354(+134)-2:08.4-18.1

Its a good disciplined way of doing medium/long pieces but I forgot how hard it is to row LONG :oops:
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by Paul Victory »

strider77 wrote:Hi Paul

I am keen to do the WP again so am posting here and in the PP at the moment :wink:

First L4 session for a long while this morning in the gym

2k warm up
DF130
4 x 10 ' - 180 so thats 4'@16spm, 3'@18spm, 2'@20spm and 1'@22spm x 4

Using a ref pace of 1:47 for the 2k the metres shouild be 2305 for each 10'-so I overshot a bit, I need to exercise more discipline

2328(+23)
2333(+28)
2324(+19)
2369(+64)

Total 9354(+134)-2:08.4-18.1

Its a good disciplined way of doing medium/long pieces but I forgot how hard it is to row LONG :oops:
Just saw this now. :oops: #-o

Anyway, my question on the PP thread still stands. How do you manage to keep the rating down to the prescribed levels? I'm finding it a real struggle, particularly at R18.
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Re: L4s, etc...the Wolverine(sque) Plan

Post by strider77 »

Paul Victory wrote:- Anyway, my question on the PP thread still stands. How do you manage to keep the rating down to the prescribed levels? I'm finding it a real struggle, particularly at R18.
Answered in full on the PP Paul :wink:
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