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Re: Heart Rate Training and Bands

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:15 pm
by MaxMacLaren1
Overall last years training went pretty well with my 2k time improving by 5 seconds. But, and it is a big but, the training was very hard. Not so much the meters but the intensity felt too much at times and I don't think I could repeat it this year. So in 2019 I'm planning to use a HR monitor with the aim of training smarter rather than harder. It will be interesting to see how it goes and rather than start a new thread I found this excellent one from 2006.

My resting HR is 48 and I've estimated my max to be 172 which means 70% of HRR is 135 bpm and 85% is 153 bpm.

Re: Heart Rate Training and Bands

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:24 am
by Wolfmiester
MaxMacLaren1 wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:15 pm
My resting HR is 48 and I've estimated my max to be 172 which means 70% of HRR is 135 bpm and 85% is 153 bpm.
Good luck Max, I'm sure you will continue to make improvements.
Hope you don't mind one comment from me ... when you say "estimated" for max hr, there is an easy way to measure it properly. There are two excellent max hr tests that can be done, and I'd humbly suggest you'd really want an accurate figure to achieve the best results. I don't have the links to hand, but would be happy to do some digging if you so desire (a one off high intensity piece could pay dividends).
Cheers, Wolfie/Steve

Re: Heart Rate Training and Bands

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:17 pm
by Grobi
Hi Max, I‘d echo Steve‘s comment that knowing your exact max heart rate is crucial. There is the so called step test which helps to determine your exact maximum heart rate:

https://www.brianmac.co.uk/rowsteptest.htm

Good luck with your training!

Re: Heart Rate Training and Bands

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:40 pm
by MaxMacLaren1
Wolfie, Peter, Thank you. I realised max HR was important but had not appreciated just how critical it is. The Step Test doesnt sound too bad but given the aim is to max HR I suspect it will be truely horrible. However it will have to wait a few days because I have a severe case of man flu (also known as a sore throat / minor cold).

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Re: Heart Rate Training and Bands

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:25 pm
by Tako
MaxMacLaren1 wrote:However it will have to wait a few days because I have a severe case of man flu (also known as a sore throat / minor cold).
You mens like this??
https://youtu.be/GSkJ8r1-6Qc

Re: Heart Rate Training and Bands

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:11 am
by MaxMacLaren1
Exactly like that! Especially the guy on the couch who can't reach his cup :lol:

Re: Heart Rate Training and Bands

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:10 pm
by MaxMacLaren1
Having tried out my new HR chest strap I'm a bit confused. How do you actually track / measure HR??? The Wahoo Tickr X works well and I see my HR on the PM5 monitor as I row, and afterwards ErgData sends the details to my Conecpt2 log. But the HR numbers listed in the log are meaningless because it only shows the HR at the last second of each interval plus an average of those!!! The Wickr App doesn't add much in terms of analysis, just a similar graph to the one in the Concept2 log. Do I need to change my settings somewhere or do you use a particular App or software. Thanks in advance.

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Re: Heart Rate Training and Bands

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:37 pm
by CamiCrew
Maybe try the tools to view your workout on Sanders site.

https://rowsandall.com

Re: Heart Rate Training and Bands

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:14 pm
by MaxMacLaren1
Thanks Barbara, I've signed up. First impressions are that it has so much good functionality that it's a bit complex. Will see how it goes and report back in a couple of weeks.

Re: Heart Rate Training and Bands

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:51 pm
by gregsmith01748
Hi max,
I’ve been a Rowsandall user from the beginning, I can help you out if you want to try it.

There’s a getting started article on the blog associated with the site that I hope is helpful.

https://analytics.rowsandall.com/2017/0 ... e-numbers/

Re: Heart Rate Training and Bands

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:23 pm
by MaxMacLaren1
Thanks Greg, much appreciated.

Re: Heart Rate Training and Bands

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:43 pm
by MaxMacLaren1
A nice 60m UT2 workout today. Average HR 128, 14,359m @ 2:05.3. Will be interesting to see how things change over 6-8 weeks. The few seconds in UT1 was caused by not paying attention (wriggling about due to numb bum :roll:).

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Re: Heart Rate Training and Bands

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:58 pm
by MaxMacLaren1
It's now been 2-3 weeks of HR training, all UT2 usually 40mins, 10k or 60mins. My weekly meters have nearly doubled to c70k :shock: and I do gradually seem to be able to go further and at lower average HR :D. Given the volume of meters and having just read the Eddie Fletcher Marathon plan I'm tempted to give it a try (although I have no intention of doing anything longer than a half marathon). Any thoughts welcomed!

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Re: Heart Rate Training and Bands

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:59 pm
by MaxMacLaren1
Yesterday I felt ready to try my first Step Test. The plan was to enjoy the 1st 4 steps and treat the 5th like a 2k race. During steps 1 to 4 my max HR increased by c10bpm each time. Step 5 was hard and I started sprinting too soon so had to back off a little at the end. Average pace @1:41.2 was 1s pace faster than my 2k PB. HR peaked at 172 which is exactly what the Karvonen formula predicted :lol:.

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Re: Heart Rate Training and Bands

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:25 pm
by MaxMacLaren1
First week of the Eddie Fletcher plan completed. My advice when selecting pacing would be to follow what Eddie says! Do not take your 2k PB from a few months ago then round down by 2 seconds and to make it worse attempt the sessions at the lowest stroke rate suggested [-X. The result was that I HD'd on 2 of the harder sessions #-o. Overall I think I will repeat week 1 using more sensible 'middle' pacing and stroke rate.

Yesterday was session 6. Using more sensible pacing it was 2x30m @75% max HR or 2:04.0 r20. Pleased to say my HR stayed just below the target HR :D.

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Re: Heart Rate Training and Bands

Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:05 pm
by MaxMacLaren1
gregsmith01748 wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:51 pm
Hi max,
I’ve been a Rowsandall user from the beginning, I can help you out if you want to try it.
Hi Greg,
I have a couple of questions I hope you can help with.

1. How do you delete workouts eg warm ups, setting drag factor etc. I can delete them but they always reappear the next day.
2. Can I change how a graph works. For example a 2x30m c7,300m interval session shows 2 lines one on top of the other, so both from 0 to 7,300. But showing one line 0 to 14,600 with a gap for the rest would be much better. When it comes to comparing interval sessions it's very hard because all the lines are on top of each other.

Many Thanks

Max

Re: Heart Rate Training and Bands

Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:47 am
by MaxMacLaren1
During this month's IRL 10k my HR reached a new peak of 176 so I've had to update my training bands. Unfortunately this means my future HR restricted workouts will be harder. Or perhaps it is more accurate to say previously I was going too easy :lol:.

Re: Heart Rate Training and Bands

Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:57 am
by MaxMacLaren1
Update on the Eddie Fletcher Marathon plan. It has been a bit stop / start due to holidays and minor injury. Since the start of Feb I've managed: week A, week A, week B and am now on week D (which is the same as week A). Week C looks pretty tough and is a time commitment I can't meet for a few weeks. So far it has been pretty hard but enjoyable and my average meters have increased significantly.

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Re: Heart Rate Training and Bands

Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:44 pm
by gregsmith01748
MaxMacLaren1 wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:05 pm
gregsmith01748 wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:51 pm
Hi max,
I’ve been a Rowsandall user from the beginning, I can help you out if you want to try it.
Hi Greg,
I have a couple of questions I hope you can help with.

1. How do you delete workouts eg warm ups, setting drag factor etc. I can delete them but they always reappear the next day.
2. Can I change how a graph works. For example a 2x30m c7,300m interval session shows 2 lines one on top of the other, so both from 0 to 7,300. But showing one line 0 to 14,600 with a gap for the rest would be much better. When it comes to comparing interval sessions it's very hard because all the lines are on top of each other.

Many Thanks

Max
Sorry, I missed this post!

Can you give me a bit of background to help figure out what's going?
Are you using ergdata?
Have you setup rowsandall to automatically import workouts?
My theory is that the site is checking to see what workouts exist on the c2 logbook that are not on rowsandall and resyncing them. If that's what's going on, it might be better to delete them from the c2 logbook. I think the logic on rowsandall is to try to align the two sets of workouts exactly.

On your second question, I'm not sure what your notation c7,300m means. Also I am not sure which two lines are superimposed. Could you either post a picture or send me a little more information about what you want the plot to look like?

Thanks
Greg

Re: Heart Rate Training and Bands

Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:31 pm
by MaxMacLaren1
Thanks Greg. Yes I'm using ergdata. Just checked my settings and yes I did select C2 auto import. Unfortunately I can't delete workouts from C2 logbook as this would impact my lifetime and season meters. My workaround has been to rename the main workouts i.e. the ones I want, and then use search and compare to check progress (or regression!). Presumably I could also unselect C2 auto import and manually import each time although I suspect that renaming is the better option.

In terms of the graphs here are 3 images that I hope make sense. The first shows a 2x30m row sequentially which is what I would expect. But when I compare multiple 2x30m rows the graph places the second 30m interval on top of the first one. So it is hard to compare multiple workouts. If I try to compare 4x15m sessions it does the same thing.

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Re: Heart Rate Training and Bands

Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:36 pm
by gregsmith01748
Hi,

I'll do some thinking about how to prevent reimporting deleted workouts.

As for the comparison plot performance, that looks like it might be a bug. I use painsled instead of ergdata for a number of reasons, but mainly because the ergdata export doesn't send along the advanced metrics like stroke length and peak force. Ergdata does some weird crap in the data export. One ugly thing that it does is log strokes during the rests, but doesn't move the clock forward, so you end up the graphs showing some weird stuff and it makes it really hard to use the interval parser to do good summaries.

I wrote a whole article on how to work around that: https://analytics.rowsandall.com/2017/0 ... -sessions/

I suspect that the distance field in the ergdata export in being reinitialized for each interval. Could you do me a favor and try redoing the comparison plot using Time for the x-axis variable? Also, if you don't mind, would you do a csv export of one of these files from the online logbook and email it to me? I've PM'ed my email address to you.

Thanks
Greg

Re: Heart Rate Training and Bands

Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:49 pm
by sander
Hi, Sander checking in. The Rowsandall guy.

Very happy to see users of my site sharing charts here.

Confirming the auto import algorithm is just checking for new workout IDs on the the first "page" of the Concept2 logbook. If you don't want the deleted workouts to reappear, I would need to keep a log of deleted workout IDs. While that is perfectly doable, it would take some time before I can deploy a fix.

Re: Heart Rate Training and Bands

Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:12 pm
by gregsmith01748
Quick suggestion: If you are manually renaming workouts that have been imported. I suggest you put a keyword in the title, like "mainset". Then you can used the filter function in the workout view to justy view the workouts you want.

Re: Heart Rate Training and Bands

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:26 am
by MaxMacLaren1
gregsmith01748 wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:36 pm
I've PM'ed my email address to you.
Thanks Greg, much appreciated.

Edit. Changing the x-axis to time works a treat!
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Re: Heart Rate Training and Bands

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:24 am
by MaxMacLaren1
sander wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:49 pm
Hi, Sander checking in. The Rowsandall guy.
Hi Sander, Thanks and great to hear from you. If it's the first page of the 'Log' then it's not an issue because only the latest 10 workouts are shown. So easy to just delete the miscellaneous ones after a couple of weeks eg warm ups, cool downs, drag setting meters etc. But if it's the first page of the 'History' or 'View Season' then it's more complicated.