The Pete Plan etc

A forum for discussing training programmes, indoor racing, things that work for you, coaching etc.

Moderator: The forum police - (nee naw)

User avatar
Iain
Super Dedicated and Truly Free Spirit
Posts: 2233
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:49 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM3
Location: Berkshire & London

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by Iain »

Well done Jon.

At the risk of repeating myself (and not for you Jon, as you showed that you understand in the rest of your post, but in case this is read by someone with less knowledge of the PP), the 5k + 0.5S is an indication of the best that Pete ever achieved and so can form an ultimate target, as he said repeatedly, it (and the other similar ones for all the other sessions) should never be used as the target for a particular session, although it can be used as a predictor the other way around (ie you are likely to be capable of a 5k slightly quicker than the average for your recent 4 x 2k). Personally I have always been relatively slower on 4 x 2k than this and faster than 5k pace for 5 x 1.5k. from discussions with my PT friend, I have a relative weakness in my aerobic threshold and hence 5k. I compensate for this by extending my partially anaerobic performance (sometimes called "transition" in C2 sites, but more usually "VO2max region" as in a 2k). As a result, I seem to be able to compensate for 1500's, but doing so for 2ks takes too much out of me to enable 4 repeats. Basically we are all different!

As an aside, I have been wondering recently at the differences between the challenges faced by a particular distance to different paced rowers. When asked, most people seem to agree that the key statistic about an interval or piece is the duration NOT the absolute distance, lt, someone doing an all out mile in 7:30 (about 2:20 pace) will respond physiologically in a similar way to an elite athlete doing a 7:30 2.5k (6 min 2k pace). Just because they are slower doesn't mean that their anaerobic capacity will last any longer. So to these athletes a mile should be done more conservatively than for the elite and importantly the 2k is in the no-man's land between VO2 max and threshold rather than around VO2 max as performed by the elite. One of many examples where we need to be careful in advising the older amateurs (most of us) based on the experiences of and research on the elite.

Do people agree with these musings or have alternative thoughts?

- Iain
52 year old Lwt (in ability and weight) trying to develop a technique that doesn't cause hysterics and start rowing regularly now I am working again.
Image
Wolfmiester
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Posts: 3737
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:16 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Henley in Arden, UK

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by Wolfmiester »

I’m not particularly scientific, or verbose, when it comes to the details. I tend to focus on a target pace and don’t really care how I get there. However, I understand enough of it, just, to agree wholeheartedly with your post Iain. 🤓
Wolfie

Image
Age 56 Height 6'3" Weight 94k
User avatar
spidermac
True Free Spirit
Posts: 569
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:31 pm

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by spidermac »

JonT 32sec improvement - not surprised u felt knackered. As someone who has been bitten too many times by the PP, big improvements feel good but usually mean a stall is coming in the near future!!!!
Iain I agree that everyone has their bogey sessions due to differing strengths/weaknesses. I was/am? better at sprinting than the longer distances, always used to struggle on the longer PP intervals. ( trying to remedy this :D ). I think u have to maximise what u have got, so for me best to factor in a sprint at the end of sessions ( also psychologically easier than flat pace I think). For someone more aerobically inclined probably better to flat pace it.
Anyway enuff theory - today HR cap (148) 30minR20.
Wup - 1k
Time Dist Spm HR split Prev
06:00.0 1451 20 139 02:04.0 (2.04.3)
06:00.0 1454 20 145 02:03.7 (2.04.3)
06:00.0 1450 20 146 02:04.1 (2.04.3)
06:00.0 1441 20 148 02:04.9 (2.05.0)
06:00.0 1432 20 148 02:05.6 (2.05.6)
30:00.0 7225 20 145 02:04.5 (2.04.7)
CD - 2k
A slight improvement (- 0.2s average) but HR wee bit higher. Temps a balmy 11 degrees felt sweltering after the last few weeks - got quite a sweat on!!! :shock:
62yr old; 71kg;6`2"
Image
User avatar
Iain
Super Dedicated and Truly Free Spirit
Posts: 2233
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:49 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM3
Location: Berkshire & London

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by Iain »

On the right track Spider.

I attempted the 5x1500 and despite the raised HR and limited training, set out with my target of 1:57.8 from December on the assumption that this looked a bit soft compared to 1:58.6 4x2k 4 weeks ago.

Time distn rate pace - comment
05:53.3 1,500 27 01:57.8 - Hard, not sure I can maintain that rating 95% HRmax
05:52.2 1,500 27 01:57.4 - Didn't feel worse, but HR stayed at 98% for over a minute
05:51.1 1,500 28 01:57.0 - Only got through by deciding it was last one then no sprint HR 97% max
01:02.5 ,268 28. 01:56.6 - Minor cramp gave H/D demons their opportunity when HR only 91%
15:00.0 3664 24.7 2:02.8 - after 6 mins to make up session HR 93% after 2 mins, hit 96%

So failure, but hopefully some benefit towards weekend's CTC attempt.
52 year old Lwt (in ability and weight) trying to develop a technique that doesn't cause hysterics and start rowing regularly now I am working again.
Image
User avatar
spidermac
True Free Spirit
Posts: 569
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:31 pm

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by spidermac »

Bad luck Iain, but I think 95%HR on the first of 5 intervals is asking a bit much!!! May have been better to drop the split 1 or 2 secs to finnish the session, but still some good training in those 3 reps & a good guide for next attempt.
Waterfall for me today. Hurt my back in Jan just before this was due so have not done one since last Nov. Wasn`t sure what to expect but thought if I get close to last average would be happy. Last time - 1.54.2/28spm/164HR
Wup - 2k
Time Dist spm HR Split Prev
11:27.7 3000 29 159 01:54.6 (1.54.7)
09:32.3 2500 29 162 01:54.4 (1.54.3)
07:33.5 2000 31 164 01:53.3 (1.53.3)
28:33.5 7500 29 161 01:54.2 (1.54.2)
CD - 2k
Well happy with that. Felt hard from middle of R2 & starting last rep didn`t think I could match last times split. Will probably go for the CTC at the weekend as well Iain, hoping for sub 1.54.
62yr old; 71kg;6`2"
Image
Wolfmiester
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Posts: 3737
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:16 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Henley in Arden, UK

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by Wolfmiester »

Steady as she (he) goes boys, don't push too hard.
Sort of a taper week, so skipped Monday after the 3x20 zoom erg on Sunday and knowing my rowing club has Erg night every Tue.
Thought I'd post this one as its both good meters in the bank and one that we repeat every now and then.
12'/10/8/6/4/2/10 90s rest
R18/20/22/24/26/28/'free'
The final 10 is either hanging on for grim death, or a cool down depending on how the previous 42 have gone :-) :-)
Meters for me were 13410 @ 1:56.3 an improvement of 0.7
Interestingly R18 first 12 was actually slightly slower, but R20/22/24 much quicker. Managed to hold on to just under 1:59 for final 10.
Wolfie

Image
Age 56 Height 6'3" Weight 94k
User avatar
JonT
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Posts: 944
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:31 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Bath, Somerset, UK

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by JonT »

Some good sessions here folks.

Iain, that looks like it was tough from the start. By the way, I hadn’t realised that the PP paces were Pete’s best results! That session really drained me. I should have pulled out.

Spider - I wouldn’t bother with the CTC if I were you. After all you wouldn’t want to knock me down a boat, surely Image

Steve - I like the look of that session. Pretty sure my final 10 would be cool down though.

Fitness Matters WoW for me today. I ended up with an OCD result, hitting the pace targets to the exact 0.1s on all intervals. A nice enjoyable UT1 session.

Image

Image


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
54 years old, 5"10', clinging on to 75kg and frustratingly but understandably inconsistent
Image
User avatar
spidermac
True Free Spirit
Posts: 569
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:31 pm

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by spidermac »

Look like some nice sessions JonT & Wolfie.
Power strokes for me today. 5x5mins R2min. First 4 sets @170DRF, last set @120drf.
Wup - 2k
Time Dist spm HR Split Prev
05:00.0 1274 21 153 01:57.7 (1.58.1) 2.5min@20spm+2.5min@22
05:00.0 1290 22 156 01:56.2 (1.56.3) 2min@20/2min@22/1min@24
05:00.0 1316 24 161 01:53.9 (1.53.2) 2min@22/2min@24/1min@26
05:00.0 1340 26 163 01:51.9 (1.51.4) 2min@24/2min@26/1min@28
05:00.0 1323 28 162 01:53.3 (1.53.4) 2min@26/2min@28/1min@30
25:00.0 6543 24 159 01:54.6 (1.53.4)
CD - 2k
Didn`t quite match last times average but happy enuff with the result. Sweating buckets in the balmy temps - 9 degrees! :lol:
62yr old; 71kg;6`2"
Image
Wolfmiester
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Posts: 3737
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:16 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Henley in Arden, UK

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by Wolfmiester »

THE PETE PLAN RULES 8)
Job done after 2 full rounds on the plan. The numbers simply do not lie.
I was ridiculously nervous before hand, which is unusual for me as I rely on the pace data and everything pointed to it going ok. :?
First target was 1:44.8 to make sure, then ideally 1:44.5 to get to 6:58
2k - 6:57.1/1:44.2/31
500 - 1:43.9 first 6-10 strokes went way too quickly
1000 - 1:44.8 back to target
1500 - 1:44.8 breathing harder, but should be in the bag
2000 - 1:43.5 should/could have gone harder from longer out?

I'm tempted to carry on for another month (and probably will) but as soon as golf and rowing otw re-opens the erg will take a back seat :)
Thanks for the encouragements chaps.
Wolfie

Image
Age 56 Height 6'3" Weight 94k
User avatar
spidermac
True Free Spirit
Posts: 569
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:31 pm

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by spidermac »

Well done Wolfie. =D> =D> =D> I am sure the PP helped - your last 4x1k indicated a sub 2k was nailed on but I think you started from a good fitness base which helped!!! Enjoy.
62yr old; 71kg;6`2"
Image
paulgould
Super Dedicated and Truly Free Spirit
Posts: 2452
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:40 am
I row on...: Model D with PM3
Location: Ryde, IOW

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by paulgould »

Wolfmiester wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:39 pm THE PETE PLAN RULES 8)
Job done after 2 full rounds on the plan. The numbers simply do not lie.
I was ridiculously nervous before hand, which is unusual for me as I rely on the pace data and everything pointed to it going ok. :?
First target was 1:44.8 to make sure, then ideally 1:44.5 to get to 6:58
2k - 6:57.1/1:44.2/31
500 - 1:43.9 first 6-10 strokes went way too quickly
1000 - 1:44.8 back to target
1500 - 1:44.8 breathing harder, but should be in the bag
2000 - 1:43.5 should/could have gone harder from longer out?

I'm tempted to carry on for another month (and probably will) but as soon as golf and rowing otw re-opens the erg will take a back seat :)
Thanks for the encouragements chaps.
Well done Steve - thats a great row =D> =D> =D>
You covered 2k in less time than it normally takes Itoje to give away his first penalty of the game :lol: :lol:

Paul G
55, 1.74m , Sep '20 - 114 kg , currently - 92 kg
Image
200m - 30.8
300m - 47.7
30r20 - 7754m
12 hr - 139300m
100 mile - 14:10.12
200km - 18:28.30
Wolfmiester
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Friend of the Free Spirits web site 2020
Posts: 3737
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:16 pm
I row on...: Model D with PM5
Location: Henley in Arden, UK

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by Wolfmiester »

Ah Paul, you giveth and you take away 😂
Maro is possibly the one shining light in a dark English tunnel at the moment 😢
Wolfie

Image
Age 56 Height 6'3" Weight 94k
paulgould
Super Dedicated and Truly Free Spirit
Posts: 2452
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:40 am
I row on...: Model D with PM3
Location: Ryde, IOW

Re: The Pete Plan etc

Post by paulgould »

Wolfmiester wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:15 pm Ah Paul, you giveth and you take away 😂
Maro is possibly the one shining light in a dark English tunnel at the moment 😢
Maybe with a blind referee :lol: :lol: .
Fantastic athlete but a very dirty, niggly player imo.
I reckon Johnny May is your one true world-class player, but against any team with a strong tight-five he is hardly ever going to get decent ball to work with.
The less said about your front row and SH, the better too :lol: :lol: :lol:

Anyway, back on topic - how much of your 2k success do you credit purely to the PP and how much to your base strength and conditioning?

Paul G
55, 1.74m , Sep '20 - 114 kg , currently - 92 kg
Image
200m - 30.8
300m - 47.7
30r20 - 7754m
12 hr - 139300m
100 mile - 14:10.12
200km - 18:28.30
Post Reply