Rugby!!

[Mike Channin]

Watching Ireland playing the Aussies at the moment. Ireland playing wonderful running rugby despite the tricky conditions. Aussies looking shellshocked.

Best part of the commentary - "Oh this looks bad for Australia, Matt Rogers is coming on" (cos I hate Matt Rogers - he always looks so full of himself!) (This was when Stephen Larkham went off, so you can see what Eddie Butler was trying to say - now Stephen Larkham is a great player! He was all that kept England at bay in the 2nd half of the RWC Final in 2003 - well, him and the horribly biased referee anyway!)

This makes a welcome change from watching the horror show that English rugby has become of late. Was it just me, or did most of the team look to be blanking Andy Robinson as they came off yesterday? (I reckon he's not long for the job, and rightfully so - the results just aren't acceptable - time to give someone else a go).

There we go - some contentious points to discuss!

[paulgould]

Fortunately England were playing SA so they could get away with such poor rugby - the Boks, if possible, were even worse.
I know the Boks have rested quite a few senior players for this tour - in particular the front five - but we have beaten the All Blacks this season.
From a Bok point of view the worrying thing about yesterday was that even with a 12 point lead there was no belief that they could beat England at Twickenham - another problem is the lack of depth in certain key positions - scrumhalf, locks, tighthead and centres to name but a few.
Anyway,against my better judgement I will watch and hope for better next week ( and be disappointed again!).

Paul G

[Paul Victory]

I have to say, this is the best Irish rugby team I can remember.

That worries me. Ireland usually play best when we're the underdogs; I'm not sure how we're going to handle our new found position in world rugby. Roll on the Pacific Islands! (or a banana skin???).

Paul

[Mike Channin]

Ireland made Australia look very ordinary today, and showed an amazing mastery of such difficult conditions, using great tactical play (some wonderful kicking 2nd half to keep the aussies pinned back). I suspect this will be remembered as a nightmare game for some time for the Australians.

Looks on current form that Ireland will be favourites for the 6 nations (and rightly so). Have to say, with the way the Argentines have been playing, they'd be easily able to justify inclusion in the 6 nations (moreso, unfortunately than the gusty but generally outgunned Italians)

The Irish looked clinical today, particularly in the first half, and they may be the only side that could have given the All Blacks something to think about this autumn. Shame we didn't get to see that match up...

As for England vs S.A. - the South Africans played a 2nd team, with some very inexperienced players and still were only Josh Lewsey away from a victory. Why they've gone on tour without so many big players is a source of debate, but in terms of good experience for newer players, I think the game yesterday would be right up there. England were still woeful going forwards and the backs are still not producing anything convincing.

My money would be on South Africa to raise their game for next week and win. I just can't see one relatively lucky victory making much difference to England. We're completely unconvincing at 10, sorely missing the magical skills of Jonny Wilkinson, in his control of the game, ability to punish any penalty that is vaguely kickable, and his defensive tackling. I think Goode is more reliable looking than Hodgson, even if less creative, but this area will be a weakness for some time to come (get well Jonny - we need you!) We don't seem to be able to fill 12 and 13 with an conviction, and our wingers are generally on patchy form. I can see a very early exit from the World Cup next year...

[Mikey]

Totally agree Mike, your analysis of the current state of England is spot on. It will be interesting to see if the enforced changes due to injuries last week will breathe some life back into the team (despite Robinson's best attempts to muck it up!)
Bad luck all round for Sale though.

On the subject of Ireland, they have been playing such consistent and entertaining rugby of late that I'm thinking an early trip to the bookies might be in order, as an outside chance next year.

Mike L

[paulgould]

I think England will scrape through again - SA without a first-choice front five aren't going to get ball going forward and although I believe they have a better backline than England(Lewsey excepted) they won't have enough quality ball.
Now Ireland - there is a side coming into great form - they slaughtered us 10 days ago and hammered the Aussies as well(always lovely to see that happen).
For the WC next year - while the All Blacks look far and away the best side currently, they will have peaked too early as usual.
My money is on France but obviously hoping the Boks can up their game and have everyone fit and ready.

Paul G

[paulgould]

At last!!!
SA win the battle of whatever the opposite of titans is.
If it was not for David Blunkett's refereeing in the first half in particular(downward pressure?) SA would have romped away with it - really doesn't look great for either side for the RWC next year - in particular England.
Anyhow,I am going to have a celebratory drink anyway!

Paul G

[Mike Channin]

Well, as I feared after last Saturday, England failed to build on anything and were proven to have been lucky rather than deserving last week.

The only silver lining in the cloud is that there is no way that Andy Robinson can continue after this. There was always a danger that another lucky win would have meant him staying on, but surely the man must fall on his sword now.

Elsewhere, the aussies humbled the Scots, who had looked so good early on. Stephen Larkham had a another fabulous game and was deservedly man of the match as he typified the difference between the sides with his brilliant broken field running. Good performances also from Giteau, Latham and Mortlock meant there was never much doubt about the result, although it did take some stout defence at 30-15 when Scotland went oh so close twice. Mat Rogers got brought on again at the end - what IS going on with his hair - he has finally ditched the 70's mullet, only to turn up with a rat tail (didn't those go out in the 80's). My mistake, might have been his brain...


Now, here's the most obvious thing I noticed about ineffective back play (England, and Scotland in today's game) vs. effective back play (NZ, Aussies today, some SA). The ineffective stuff, the ball goes way back, the defence rushes up, and the attackers are lucky if they make it back to the gain line. More often than not, they lose 10-20 meters. In contrast, in the effective stuff, the ball is passed almost flat, onto players running at speed. The defence is put on the back foot, and any missed tackle leads to a serious line-break and often a potential try scoring opportunity.

Now if it is that simple to observe, why can't England (and the northern hemisphere teams generally) get this? When Wales (particularly in their Grand Slam year) and Ireland play the flat ball and get it out wide, they look menacing. England don't seem to know how to do this at all. And on the rare occasion where they do try, they usually fumble the ball. This will have to change before things get any better...

Looking forward to Wales vs NZ. Watch out for how NZ cheat to bring down any attempt at a rolling maul. Also watch out for them charging into the scum to gain an advantage, and also watch the fringes for how many off the ball obstructions they make. If the referee is eagle eyed and catches this stuff, Wales could win. If not, NZ will probably make it look easier than it is. Prediction: A close game for 60 mins, then NZ pressure to tell in the end and they win by 10 points...

[Paul Victory]

Today's results make Ireland's recent performances look even better. If we can keep this form going, our second ever Grand Slam looks a distinct possibility. If only the 6 nations was starting next week..

It looks like the New Zealand margin over Wales is going to be a lot more than 10 points. I fear Ireland are going to have to beat both France and Argentina in their World Cup group if they want to have any chance of avoiding the All Blacks in the second round. If they can do that, a final against the All Blacks is not out of the question.

Paul