WAARC - October 2012 - 1mile

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WAARC - October 2012 - 1mile

Post by AlanS » Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:03 am

The first Weight & Age Adjusted Rowing Challenge is inspired by October's Grimsby IRC race distance - 1 mile.

The rules are simple:
  • Row 1 mile (1609 metres) on a C2 rowing machine during the month of October and submit your time, current weight and currebt age either a) in public on this thread or b) in private to myself by private message. (No weights submitted privately will be made public by myself.)
  • Current weight is a weight reading that is no more than one week old at time of the attempt.
  • You can submit as many attempts as you like, as long as they are always accompanied by your current weight and age (which may be different from earlier attempts).
  • The deadline for submissions is Thursday 1st November at 12pm GMT.
  • Times will be adjusted according to the details found here: http://concept2.co.uk/rns/adjustment
  • Males and females will be scored seperately.
  • Points will be awarded based on adjusted times, actual times, and number of entrants. Adjusted times will be worth twice as many points as actual times. As an example, if ten males submit a time, the fastest actual time will score ten points, and the slowest one point. The fastest adjusted time will score twenty points, and the slowest two points.
  • Points will be combined to determine the overall (male and female) winner.
  • A leaderboard will be posted each week during the month-long challenge to let you see how you are faring, with a final leaderboard posted shortly after the challenge ends.
  • Each Weight & Age Adjusted Rowing Challenge will be a standalone challenge, i.e. there will be no running total of monthly points.
Any questions? If not, get rowing (and weighing). :fssmile:
Last edited by AlanS on Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:00 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Weight Adjusted Rowing Challenge - October 2012 - 1 mile

Post by Mike Channin » Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:24 pm

Good luck with this, Alan. Will be interesting to see the results...
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Re: Weight Adjusted Rowing Challenge - October 2012 - 1 mile

Post by plummy » Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:51 pm

Question: If the adjusted time is worth twice as many points as the standard time - and 10 males enter a time, shouldn't the slowest time (adjusted) be worth 2 points as the non-adjusted time is worth 1?
55 yrs old, 71kg, 5' 10"
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Re: Weight Adjusted Rowing Challenge - October 2012 - 1 mile

Post by AlanS » Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:26 am

Yes, you are quite right, Plummy. That's what I meant to type. I'll go edit it now.

Cheers Mike.

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Re: Weight Adjusted Rowing Challenge - October 2012 - 1 mile

Post by Yambo » Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:33 am

I hate these short distances . . .
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Re: Weight Adjusted Rowing Challenge - October 2012 - 1 mile

Post by Shang-Chi » Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:10 am

If we do a time, do we adjust it ourselves or do you do it?
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Re: Weight Adjusted Rowing Challenge - October 2012 - 1 mile

Post by AlanS » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:01 pm

Yambo wrote:I hate these short distances . . .
Yambo, if this weight-adjusted challenge proves popular, I'll be sure to make the next one longer. :fssmile:
Shang-Chi wrote:If we do a time, do we adjust it ourselves or do you do it?
I'll do it. You just submit the actual time in which you completed the mile. :fssmile:

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Re: Weight Adjusted Rowing Challenge - October 2012 - 1 mile

Post by Shang-Chi » Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:22 pm

AlanS wrote:
Shang-Chi wrote:If we do a time, do we adjust it ourselves or do you do it?
I'll do it. You just submit the actual time in which you completed the mile. :fssmile:
Cool :D
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Re: Weight Adjusted Rowing Challenge - October 2012 - 1 mile

Post by AlanS » Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:17 pm

This challenge thing is my suggestion, so it's possibly only right I get things going:

Actual time: 5:58.8
Current weight: 73.3kg

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Re: Weight Adjusted Rowing Challenge - October 2012 - 1 mile

Post by Shang-Chi » Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:03 am

Have you consider using this site, Alan?

http://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/t ... calculator
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Re: Weight Adjusted Rowing Challenge - October 2012 - 1 mile

Post by Shang-Chi » Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:15 pm

Aaah beat big Simon Croft today by 0.5 sec. 8)

Actual time: 5:17.1 @1:38.6
Weight: 84.8 kg. or 186,952 US pound

Calculated to 4:52.4 :wink:
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Re: Weight Adjusted Rowing Challenge - October 2012 - 1 mile

Post by Paul Victory » Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:06 pm

My time today was 6:08.9, adjusted time 6:01.1.
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Re: Weight Adjusted Rowing Challenge - October 2012 - 1 mile

Post by AlanS » Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:20 pm

Thanks guys, thought I was going to be the only one doing this! :fswink:

I have seen that site, Mikkel, but it uses a different formula to the one I'm using for this. I'm using the '77.27' formula from http://concept2.co.uk/training/guide/weight_adjustment. This page also refers to the '122.73' formula, which is what your concept2.com link is using. To be honest, it doesn't matter which one I use as it won't change the order of the adjusted times, only the times themselves. In other words, it won't change who ends up with the fastest/slowest adjusted times. But I went with '77.27' due to the quote on the page regarding '122.73': "This isn't so relevant for the average 'indoor rower' and so not generally used result adjustment".

It does mean your adjusted time won't be 4:52.4...

How did you perform your adjustment, Paul? You didn't post your current weight, so I can't work it out using my formula to confirm your adjusted time is correct.

If everyone just posts actual times and current weights, there will be no confusion. :fswink:

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Re: Weight Adjusted Rowing Challenge - October 2012 - 1 mile

Post by stumpy » Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:11 pm

06:13.8_____ 90 kgs [-( :lol: :lol: :lol: :^o
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Re: Weight Adjusted Rowing Challenge - October 2012 - 1 mile

Post by Shang-Chi » Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:26 pm

AlanS wrote:I have seen that site, Mikkel, but it uses a different formula to the one I'm using for this. I'm using the '77.27' formula from http://concept2.co.uk/training/guide/weight_adjustment. This page also refers to the '122.73' formula, which is what your concept2.com link is using. To be honest, it doesn't matter which one I use as it won't change the order of the adjusted times, only the times themselves. In other words, it won't change who ends up with the fastest/slowest adjusted times. But I went with '77.27' due to the quote on the page regarding '122.73': "This isn't so relevant for the average 'indoor rower' and so not generally used result adjustment".

It does mean your adjusted time won't be 4:52.4...

How did you perform your adjustment, Paul? You didn't post your current weight, so I can't work it out using my formula to confirm your adjusted time is correct.

If everyone just posts actual times and current weights, there will be no confusion. :fswink:
But I'm sure it will be close to that. :wink: But I can't see why you use a formula you have to calculate manually, when there is an automatically for free :!: :?:

This is the formula from the Concept2.com:

Wf = [body weight in lbs / 270] raised to the power .222
Corrected time = Wf x actual time (seconds)
Corrected distance = actual distance / Wf
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Re: Weight Adjusted Rowing Challenge - October 2012 - 1 mile

Post by plummy » Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:23 am

I think the short answer is: Alan's thread - Alan's Rules Mikkel :D
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Re: Weight Adjusted Rowing Challenge - October 2012 - 1 mile

Post by Shang-Chi » Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:27 am

plummy wrote:I think the short answer is: Alan's thread - Alan's Rules Mikkel :D
Yeah, I don't argue with that, but was just wandering why sitting doing it manually with all this technology available :?:
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Re: Weight Adjusted Rowing Challenge - October 2012 - 1 mile

Post by Paul Victory » Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:40 am

AlanS wrote: How did you perform your adjustment, Paul? You didn't post your current weight, so I can't work it out using my formula to confirm your adjusted time is correct.

If everyone just posts actual times and current weights, there will be no confusion. :fswink:
Hi Alan

There was a link in one of the earlier threads and I entered my time (6:08.9) and my current weight (111.5kg - ouch) there. It gave me 6:01.1, but that seems way off if 77.27 kg is being used as a benchmark, so I guess it must be a different formula.

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Re: Weight Adjusted Rowing Challenge - October 2012 - 1 mile

Post by Shang-Chi » Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:58 am

Paul Victory wrote:
AlanS wrote:How did you perform your adjustment, Paul? You didn't post your current weight, so I can't work it out using my formula to confirm your adjusted time is correct.

If everyone just posts actual times and current weights, there will be no confusion. :fswink:
Hi Alan

There was a link in one of the earlier threads and I entered my time (6:08.9) and my current weight (111.5kg - ouch) there. It gave me 6:01.1, but that seems way off if 77.27 kg is being used as a benchmark, so I guess it must be a different formula.

Paul V
It will be just about the same, Paul, but it really doesn't matter. The lighter you are, the better times you'll get, provided that you don't row slower :wink: So If we could loose some weight during this month and row a little faster, this would be pretty rewarding =;
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Re: Weight Adjusted Rowing Challenge - October 2012 - 1 mile

Post by AlanS » Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:06 am

Shang-Chi wrote:
plummy wrote:I think the short answer is: Alan's thread - Alan's Rules Mikkel :D
Yeah, I don't argue with that, but was just wandering why sitting doing it manually with all this technology available :?:
It took me a couple of minutes to set-up a spreadsheet to perform the calculations for me, so please don't think I'm spending any time doing it manually. :fssmile: It also helps me keep track of the awarded points too.

After one week of this challenge, here is the current leaderboard:
201210 warc - 1mile.jpg
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Re: Weight Adjusted Rowing Challenge - October 2012 - 1 mile

Post by Pepe » Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:57 am

Time: 6:33.1

Weight: 72.7 kg
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Re: Weight Adjusted Rowing Challenge - October 2012 - 1 mile

Post by Mike Channin » Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:44 am

6:10.7 Weight 81kg

(Done during longer piece, so would expect to improve this somewhat, but getting a marker down in case I don't clear the current cold/form dip before the end of the month)

Great to see you taking part, Philip! Think you'll come into your own on an age and weight adjusted challenge!
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Re: Weight Adjusted Rowing Challenge - October 2012 - 1 mile

Post by Shang-Chi » Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:41 pm

Please call me Mikkel on the spreadsheet, Alan! :D

Well there is a long way from 4:52.4 to 5:23.7 So it doesn't look like the C2 formula at all :?:

The neutral time on C2 was based on 170 pound (=average weight for rowers) but they change it a year ago to 270 :!:

On the C2 they write this:
What is the weight of the standard rower being used for this adjustment?
Originally, we used 170 (77.11 kg.) to normalize the weight adjusted scores because 170 was approximately the average weight of all rowers. But about a year ago we realized that by using a different number to normalize the weight adjusted score we could give the adjusted score more meaning. By using 270 (122.47 kg), the weight adjusted score becomes a pretty good estimate of a person’s potential speed in an eight. To put it another way, if the average adjusted score using this formula of the 8 rowers in an eight is 6:00, then that boat should be capable of a 6:00 2k race on the water—given perfect conditions and near perfect rowing effectiveness (nobody rows perfectly). We believe that this will be approximately true for all types of crews.

So it is a new formula, that takes account of the potential speed in an eight in a 2k race on water.
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Re: Weight Adjusted Rowing Challenge - October 2012 - 1 mile

Post by AlanS » Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:27 pm

Shang-Chi wrote:Please call me Mikkel on the spreadsheet, Alan! :D
Will do, Shang-Chi... er, I mean, Mikkel! :fswink:

With regards to the formulas used, the 'newer' one seems to be designed for putting together an eight. Since we're not doing that here, I didn't think it was relevant.

I'll keep using the 'old' one this month, but will use the 'newer' one from next month onwards. Like I have said before, it won't actually make any difference to the scores, but if folk like being able to use that website to work out their adjusted times themselves, then that's a good enough reason to switch for me. :fssmile:

There may also be other tweaks after this month to 'keep things interesting'.

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Re: Weight Adjusted Rowing Challenge - October 2012 - 1 mile

Post by Shang-Chi » Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:27 pm

AlanS wrote:
Shang-Chi wrote:Please call me Mikkel on the spreadsheet, Alan! :D
Will do, Shang-Chi... er, I mean, Mikkel! :fswink:

With regards to the formulas used, the 'newer' one seems to be designed for putting together an eight. Since we're not doing that here, I didn't think it was relevant.

I'll keep using the 'old' one this month, but will use the 'newer' one from next month onwards. Like I have said before, it won't actually make any difference to the scores, but if folk like being able to use that website to work out their adjusted times themselves, then that's a good enough reason to switch for me. :fssmile:

There may also be other tweaks after this month to 'keep things interesting'.
Great work in making the spreadsheet work it out for you. =D> I once was pretty good at math, but I can't figure this formula out when you divide weight and lift it + multiply with the time. I get a wrong result every time :roll: #-o :lol: If you are using it now you should continue with that. It's 8) But I can see that the heavier the rower are, the poorer the result from the 170 based calculation. From a motivation point of view it would be better to use the 270 based. And I find it strange that they say that 170pound is the average weight of a rower. Why don't use the weight of the average man. I'm sure the average weight then would be something like 176-187 pound (80-85kg).

I also read another article which explains a lot: Weight Adjusted Erg Scores - Find the Hidden Gem in Your Crew. Have you read it :?:
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