what training have free spirits been doing today?

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Paul Victory
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Post by Paul Victory »

Did 10 minutes warm up at 2:08.7 pace - 2331 meters

Decided on the spur of the moment to have a go at the CTC 7 minutes. Started off sub 1:40 (again!) and blew up after about 2 minutes. Limped home in 1:48.7 average pace for 1931 meters.

Tried 100 meters at four different drag settings - best effort 17.1 seconds.

Finished with 30 minutes uphill at 2:00.2 pace - 7484 meters.

Temporarily ahead of Plummy on meter board and remain on target for 2mm for season.

Lower part of right bicep (slightly above the inner elbow) quite sore all day - not sure if I've strained something. Felt sore starting off, but OK once I got warmed up.

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Post by Paul Victory »

Jessica-Red wrote:wanted to handle down several times BUT
said to self
Free Spirit sDO NOT HANDLE DOWN !!!

:P
Hi Carole

I've adopted the same approach myself on a couple of occasions recently and I now find myself asking if this is always the right thing to do.

There's no doubt that keeping going when you are struggling helps to build mental toughness. But it can be dangerous if carried to extremes. Sometimes the urge to handle down is our body's way of telling us that we ought to stop in order to avoid injury or overtraining.

I guess the secret is to learn to tell the difference between those times when we SHOULD stop and those times we are just wimping out. One way of doing this may be to use a heart rate monitor and only stop if the heart rate is unusually elevated. The other time we should stop is if we feel we have incurred an injury, as the endorphins (?) we generate when exercising can sometimes mask pain a bit too much and cause us to turn a minor strain into a major setback.

There are others out there who know a lot more about this subject than I do and I would welcome their thoughts on this topic.

Paul
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Post by NWakeford »

Since I've started training again (Aug 06) I've only Handled down once - 20/2/07 - unfortuantly I had too, started throwing up. managed 4km of a 60 minute piece. Ended up in bed for a few days, took about a fortnight to get back up to the right split times.

I probably knew I was unwell before I started however had to do it.
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Post by big dave k »

Paul Victory wrote:
Jessica-Red wrote:wanted to handle down several times BUT
said to self
Free Spirit sDO NOT HANDLE DOWN !!!

:P
Hi Carole

I've adopted the same approach myself on a couple of occasions recently and I now find myself asking if this is always the right thing to do.

There's no doubt that keeping going when you are struggling helps to build mental toughness. But it can be dangerous if carried to extremes. Sometimes the urge to handle down is our body's way of telling us that we ought to stop in order to avoid injury or overtraining.

I guess the secret is to learn to tell the difference between those times when we SHOULD stop and those times we are just wimping out. One way of doing this may be to use a heart rate monitor and only stop if the heart rate is unusually elevated. The other time we should stop is if we feel we have incurred an injury, as the endorphins (?) we generate when exercising can sometimes mask pain a bit too much and cause us to turn a minor strain into a major setback.

There are others out there who know a lot more about this subject than I do and I would welcome their thoughts on this topic.

Paul
i agree it's best to stop if you're body is telling you it's injured. but usually, people handle down because it's too hard. no particular physical problem other than lactic build up. in this case, the options are to either

a) keep pushing regardless until you reach a point similar to rigor mortis (hopefully just after you're last stroke), or

b) to take it easy for a moment to try and flush some of the lactate out, catch your breath and regroup so you can have another bash at it. or...

c) handle down, stop rowing, and regret it within about half a second

unfortunately, option c) tends to win out in most of our heads. option a) should probably only be reserved for situations where you absolutely HAVE TO keep going, like races or time trials. but b) is always the best answer to me. you don't have the regret of handling down, just tell yourself you'll take it easy for 500m, and you'll be able to get back to race pace a lot quicker than that. sometimes takes only one stroke to realise you can keep it up.

i admit i've handled down more times than id like to. i always try to rationalise it, but i know if i had just kept rowing til the finish, i'd feel a lot better about it, regardless of the time. half this game is in the head, you've got to keep going when every fibre of your being is telling you to stop. pain is temporary and all that..
Dave

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Post by Paul Victory »

Hi Dave

I completely agree with your assessment. Most of the time, we handle down just because of fatigue, lactic acid build up or general just 'not being in the mood'. And 9 times out of 10, it's right to keep going, even if we have to ease back the pace a bit and subsequently find that we never quite manage to pick it up again.

However... I missed quite a lot of training in August last year because I kept going with a tough 30 minutes session at end July when I felt something go in my right shoulder shortly after I started and kept going because the endorphins were masking the pain.

I imagine J-R was probably right to keep going today and she is to be congratulated for the metal toughness she displayed.

I also think that one or two Free Spirits who handled down recently when they realised they were going too hard for someone who had just returned from illness or injury (you know who you are) were probably also right to do what they did.

The key is to be totally honest with yourself. Don't use a slight twinge or a minor bout of 'man flu' as an excuse to wimp out. However, real flu or a genuine injury are a different story altogether.

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Injury or Headspace?...

Post by extremeclimber »

Hello,
I have (for several months now) had a twinge just behind my left shoulder blade that just does not seem to go away. While it is not debilitating, it can be annoying at times. I think it may track to an old wrestling injury in High School, but I am frustrated at it's presence in my overall workouts. Is it best for me to simply overlook it, as it never seems to alter my overall results, or do I need to lend it some credence and alter my workout as it flairs up? I have found that simply taking a dose of advil in the mornings helps to alliveate the issue, but I am unsure that this is the best course of action...
Please Advise?!
Paul
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Post by johnglynn »

NWakeford wrote:Since I've started training again (Aug 06) I've only Handled down once - 20/2/07 - unfortuantly I had too, started throwing up. managed 4km of a 60 minute piece. Ended up in bed for a few days, took about a fortnight to get back up to the right split times.

I probably knew I was unwell before I started however had to do it.
Now thats mental strength, kudos Nick

I think mental strength's contibution to pace is frequently overlooked in rowing (probably all sports) . And it's something I try to work on in myself .

Unfortunatly I tend to handle down quite a lot . I'm luckly in that I've been injury free for a long time now, so it's me been a wimp .

I think it's individual race motivation been most of the problem with me .

In middle long distance if I'm going for pace X (i.e. PB / Training PB / just a strong session pace) in whatever distance/time, and I find that I'm falling behind the pace, I might push a bit harder to get back to schedule .
If that fails the idea for racing close to that pace for another Y meters depresses me, so I have 2 options
(1) Be a man and row close to pace X, and get a good (but not great) row .
(2) Take the foot of the gas completely and drop 10-20 secs pace . The problem with this for me is that after 200 meters I frequently think whats the point and handle down :oops:

I rarely pick 1 :oops:
2 sometimes turns into Dave's 2 (i.e. clear the latic and start getting up to speed again)

In Sprints it's different in that everything happens so fast, your feeling very strong and powerful, and then your dying in what seems like a few seconds afterwards .
I generally row sprints to the end as I think of the slow bit as part of the cooldown .

Training wise, last night the plan was to do a HR limited 60min, that got turned into a 10K then a 30min, then nothing at all :oops: .
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Post by Gooner Neil »

Paul, my only advice is to use your right hand as well. this will decrease the pressure on your shoulder. PS phenomonal times you show off, one handed good, just think when the second one comes into play what you'll be pulling :lol:

BTW 2500m warm up and warm down with a 15 min 1.55 piece in the middle. Didn't enjoy today
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Post by Nick Shuker »

5k 17.22.9

5k 19.56.6

2k 6.59.1

Felt stronger today,after giving blood on sunday was weak as a kitten yesterday

3x 10 dumbell chest press

3x 10 press ups

3x 10 tricep pulldowns
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Post by johnglynn »

Nick Shuker wrote:5k 17.22.9
5k 19.56.6
2k 6.59.1

Felt stronger today,after giving blood on sunday was weak as a kitten yesterday

3x 10 dumbell chest press
3x 10 press ups
3x 10 tricep pulldowns
Bloody hell Nick that's a very intence training session, that first 5K must be close to your 5K PB, and then to go on and row lot more :shock:

How often do you do session's to that intensity ?

And great to hear the strength coming back after giving the blood

I went for my standard lunch (HR limited/7800 limited) 30 min today . Exact same distance as yesterday 7801, but this time HR was 155 instead of 157 . Will hopefully get down to 154 or lower tomorrow, and then hopefully get 7900 in a week or 2 .
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Post by big dave k »

Nick Shuker wrote:5k 17.22.9

5k 19.56.6

2k 6.59.1

Felt stronger today,after giving blood on sunday was weak as a kitten yesterday

3x 10 dumbell chest press

3x 10 press ups

3x 10 tricep pulldowns
that's an impressive lot of training after that first 5k. i'd be calling it a day after that, and be very pleased with myself!

for me, today was back and biceps with abs at the end. i've got a feeling my back is disproportionately strong compared to my arms and probably legs as well.

did 3x8 bent over rows at 40kg, 50kg, 50kg
then 3x8 one arm DB rows at 30kg, 30kg, 32.5kg

but i could only hammer curl up to 23.5kg (on the bar, not dumbells), and the seated incline DB curls i did were pathetic. i'm not actually going to say what weight, but not good.

plank was easier today, 3x30s felt quite easy until the end of the last one. will increase it next week i think.
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Post by extremeclimber »

lol, Neil - actually, I was trying to train one-handed to prepare for our upcoming FS Vertical Rowing challenge... :fswink:

Rough motivation day - basically just did what I had to for my workout:

50 laps swimming

Deadhangs with leglifts - 3 sets 14 reps
Crunches on ball w/ 15# medicine ball - 3 sets 24 reps
Pelvic Tilts - 3 sets 18 reps
Oblique Crunches on Ball - 3 sets 24 reps
Cable Crunches - 160#, 3 sets 12 reps
Decline Obliques with 15# medicine ball - 3 sets 11 reps
2-ball "Survivals" - 3 sets 20 reps

25 min UT2 Row - 5442 m (2:17.7)
5 min Cool-down - 960 m (2:36.2)
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Post by Nick Shuker »

Thanks John, Dave,

Ive been keeping my eye on Pete Marsdens posts on the C2 site. Hes using hard day, easy day training.

Hard day consists of a hard, near on PB 5k row. This worked for me when I got my 2k PB at BIRC. So, Ive gone back to using this hard 5K, level 10 to build up my strength for the next competition Im entering in August.

We talked about strength training John last year and I think this sort of training suits me. Plus some weight training, I hope will help, and make me look a little better with my shirt off.

Ive been looking also at the sub 6.15 thread which your involved in John. I would love to get down to sub 6.15, that would near on guarantee me at least a silver, if not gold ar BIRC when Im 50, 4 years from now,
Good luck with your training Guys
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Post by Stan »

No training again today and possibly not tomorrow either due to work and visits from the chairman ](*,)
Not happy :evil: but I should be fresh next time I row so I will have a go at my 30 minute pb.
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Post by Jessica-Red »

Today I did a 6k then a 4 then a 5 with a bit of "put yr back into it "before I went to Uni

:D :D
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Post by Jessica-Red »

and thanks guys for yr comments abt handling down-mine was lactic stuff BURNINg me ! and wimping!! NOT injury!

please tell me what is best way to clear this horrid lactate quickly! bottom and across back of shoulders halfway down my back are my prob areas!

HELP
:?
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Post by MaxDev »

Stan wrote:No training again today and possibly not tomorrow either due to work and visits from the chairman ](*,)
Not happy :evil: but I should be fresh next time I row so I will have a go at my 30 minute pb.
Stan, I can empathise completely. :cry:

Cold has more or less cleared up, and foot feeling much better, so expected to get to the gym tonight, but work now interfering...

Last few weeks have been pretty hectic, but nothing compared to the way this week has started - 10, 12.5 and 11.5 hrs on the three days so far, and I can't see it getting much less in the next couple of days.

And find out tomorrow whether I will be needed to work the weekend also, despite the fact I'd planned to go home and go shopping for trousers with a 4" smaller waist than those I'm currently wearing :D.

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Post by big dave k »

Jessica-Red wrote:and thanks guys for yr comments abt handling down-mine was lactic stuff BURNINg me ! and wimping!! NOT injury!

please tell me what is best way to clear this horrid lactate quickly! bottom and across back of shoulders halfway down my back are my prob areas!

HELP
:?
unforunately, once it starts, there's no stopping it without slowing down significantly. you can keep going for a while, but eventually the muscles will cease to function properly and won't be able to row fast even if you wanted to.

it's produced when you are doing any exercise, the problem is when you get to a point when the body can no longer provide enough oxygen to the muscles and they can no longer buffer the lactate quicker than it builds up. this usually happens around 70-80% of max heart rate, but is different for different people.

you've got the bring your heart rate down so that you are getting more oxygen to the muscles and keeping them moving is the best way to recover, however much you just want to lie in a dark room! active recovery after a hard piece is the best way. even if it's at a 9:00 split and 14spm, keep taking strokes and it'll eventually go.
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Post by big dave k »

as for training, i was going to do an erg. went down the club, but was asked to fill in for someone in the top eight.

didn't want to pass up the opportunity as i want to get into that boat after head of the river, and i didn't need too much persuading to give up a 5k test for rowing on the water!

i was at bow, which gave me chance to see everyone's technique, including pete who rowed at barcelona 92. suffice to say, they're all pretty good. but i reckon i held my own and was contributing a fair bit of power.

the piece was an hour at r24. the river at bedford is only 2k long, so we had to spin quite a few times, but the clock was stopped until we got moving again!!

hard work, but i think im getting pretty close to being at full fitness again. when im there, i'll start bashing out some pbs on the erg. and i promise i'll be contributing some metres to the free spirits total soon!
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NWakeford

Post by NWakeford »

big dave k wrote:it's produced when you are doing any exercise, the problem is when you get to a point when the body can no longer provide enough oxygen to the muscles and they can no longer buffer the lactate quicker than it builds up. this usually happens around 70-80% of max heart rate, but is different for different people.
The key is working within your target workload i.e. UT1, UT2, AT etc, and ensuring enough recovery after hard sessions. For the longer pieces 30 minutes plus most of the time you will be in the UT1 or UT2
http://www.freespiritsrowing.com/conten ... e=hr_bands
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Post by big dave k »

NWakeford wrote:
big dave k wrote:it's produced when you are doing any exercise, the problem is when you get to a point when the body can no longer provide enough oxygen to the muscles and they can no longer buffer the lactate quicker than it builds up. this usually happens around 70-80% of max heart rate, but is different for different people.
The key is working within your target workload i.e. UT1, UT2, AT etc, and ensuring enough recovery after hard sessions. For the longer pieces 30 minutes plus most of the time you will be in the UT1 or UT2
http://www.freespiritsrowing.com/conten ... e=hr_bands
good link. i got the percentages wrong as well. it's over 80%, not under it. closer to 90% for people if you train your body to handle higher lactate levels.
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Post by Jessica-Red »

Today did 2 x 5k and a bit of cross training early am before the dreaded Weight Watchers meeting!

BUT
training and eating better worked cos I lost 5.5 lbs this week on my fresh brand new start!
YAY!!!
Im well chuffed! :P :P :P
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Post by Jessica-Red »

Thanks guys for the lactate info
my heart rate is a problem cos its showing nowhere near the training bands cos its being controlled by betablocker drugs

but I KNOW Im working HARD! but its not easy to know if its HARD ENOUGH!
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Post by Spamuel »

Well done on shedding those pounds. =D>

Weight watchers will be proud of you!
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Post by Jessica-Red »

Thanks_Ive found even losing 5 odd pounds with 4 stone still to lose has improved my rowing

can reach further fwd and no acid indigestion!!!!
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