what training have free spirits been doing today?

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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Draggon »

Paul Victory wrote: Sun May 17, 2020 4:11 pmIf I've no ill effects, I'll try to do another session on Tuesday and may even have a go at the May CTC next time around!
Paul - it's great to see you back on the erg. The slow start is exactly what you should be doing. If you do have a go at the May CTC, I would caution you to plan to have a sub-par effort. What I mean by that is just do it for the completion, not to prove anything. It's a very strenuous one this month. Cheers!
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Paul Victory »

Draggon wrote: Sun May 17, 2020 4:18 pm
Paul Victory wrote: Sun May 17, 2020 4:11 pmIf I've no ill effects, I'll try to do another session on Tuesday and may even have a go at the May CTC next time around!
Paul - it's great to see you back on the erg. The slow start is exactly what you should be doing. If you do have a go at the May CTC, I would caution you to plan to have a sub-par effort. What I mean by that is just do it for the completion, not to prove anything. It's a very strenuous one this month. Cheers!
Thanks Ron

I think my PB for 1 minute is 340 meters, but I'll be very lucky to get within 10% of that figure. As you suggest, I think I'll make my first effort just a 'completion' entry and then maybe try to improve on this bit by bit over what's left of this month.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Draggon »

Paul Victory wrote: Sun May 17, 2020 6:40 pmI think my PB for 1 minute is 340 meters, but I'll be very lucky to get within 10% of that figure. As you suggest, I think I'll make my first effort just a 'completion' entry and then maybe try to improve on this bit by bit over what's left of this month.
Sounds like a sensible plan.

344 per your little PB bar at the bottom of your post - which, coincidentally is exactly where our top Free Spirit is this month. Even more interesting - I just realized he (Claudius) is lightweight class!
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Paul Victory »

Draggon wrote: Sun May 17, 2020 7:32 pm
Paul Victory wrote: Sun May 17, 2020 6:40 pmI think my PB for 1 minute is 340 meters, but I'll be very lucky to get within 10% of that figure. As you suggest, I think I'll make my first effort just a 'completion' entry and then maybe try to improve on this bit by bit over what's left of this month.
Sounds like a sensible plan.

344 per your little PB bar at the bottom of your post - which, coincidentally is exactly where our top Free Spirit is this month. Even more interesting - I just realized he (Claudius) is lightweight class!
I went back over my logbook history and it looks as if I did 347m on 28 June 2016! So I guess I need to update my signature!
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Paul Victory »

Having realised that, I think I need to readjust my objective to within 15% of my PB.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Paul Victory »

Today was my 3rd day back on the erg. I've been taking a day off between sessions and my plan is to build up gradually. I did 4829m on my 1st day back, 5545 on my second day and 6089m today. All very pedestrian at around 2:12 to 2:15 pace, apart from 2 attempts at the CTC. I managed 295 on my first attempt, but only 282m today! My back was acting up a bit, so I eased back after about 20 seconds and just sort of coasted home.

I've now done 3 sessions this week, so I may take a couple of days off before I hop on the erg again. While I have no delusions about being competitive (for a while yet, at any rate), I would like to get to at least 300m by month end. Having said that, I'm not going to risk injuring myself in the process, as my key objective right now is to establish a regular routine.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Paul Victory »

Decided to have a go at the 60 minutes ranking distance today. This was partly in response to advice telling me I should stick to long slow distance until I regain some fitness, partly nonathlon driven. Plan was to pick a pace that I figured I could sustain, with a fall back of just slowing down if need be. So I decided to target 2:18 pace and even this proved slightly challenging, with the occasional 2:20 plus creeping in. But I managed to keep going and was even able to muster up a final surge (certainly not a sprint!) to finish with just over 13k.

Splits were as follows:

Split Pace Rating
1086 2:18.12 27
1082 2:18.63 28
1082 2:18.63 29
1072 2:19.93 29
1079 2:19.02 30
1079 2:19.02 30
1077 2:19.28 29
1084 2:18.38 29
1084 2:18.38 28
1083 2:18.50 28
1081 2:18.76 28
1123 2:13.57 29

13011 2:18.34 28
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Paul Victory »

I'm still struggling to get anywhere close to respectable times over any of the ranking distances. I did 10k today in just under 44 and a half minutes and I had to force myself to keep going, with the HD demons perched on my shoulder from about 4k onwards. I managed to keep it fairly even paced, but it was a real struggle mentally as well as physically.

Splits were as follows:

Split Time Pace Rating
2000 8:51.7 2:12.93 27
2000 8:55.6 2:13.90 28
2000 8:53.1 2:13.28 29
2000 8:55.5 2:13.88 29
2000 8:51.8 2:12.95 30

10000 44:27.7 2:13.39 28

I've yet to achieve a time that's in the top 50% for my age group and that's become my new target. Hopefully at least one before the end of this month and a full set (maybe up to HM) by the end of August.

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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Iain »

Paul, well done on your continued progress. I'm amazed you are maintaining such high ratings, I struggle to hold 24 for longer periods after 6 months. Have you tried rowing at higher power at lower ratings?

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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Paul Victory »

Iain wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:05 pm Paul, well done on your continued progress. I'm amazed you are maintaining such high ratings, I struggle to hold 24 for longer periods after 6 months. Have you tried rowing at higher power at lower ratings?

- Iain
Hi Iain

Thanks for the encouragement. I’ve always struggled to get decent results at low ratings. It’s probably at least partly due to a relatively short stroke.

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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by MaxMacLaren1 »

Hi Paul V,

At 6'1" you're an inch or 2 taller than me. What do you class as a "relatively short stroke". I have shorter legs compared to body so not really built for rowing and usually see 1.39 to 1.45 depending on stroke rate and how much I'm thinking about technique.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by JonT »

Paul Victory wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:29 pm Thanks for the encouragement. I’ve always struggled to get decent results at low ratings. It’s probably at least partly due to a relatively short stroke.
Paul, you have far more experience than I, but I took some advice from a very experienced ergo and otw rower last year and he persuaded me to slow down my rating massively. I now do the vast majority of my training at 18-20 spm. I took me weeks to get the hang of it, but I wouldn't look back and it has definitely made me a lot stronger and technically far better because one gets so much more time to focus on every part of every stroke. The biggest challenge for me was getting the right balance of timing over the phases of each stroke, and also learning a completely new breathing pattern. What I then struggled with was increasing the rating without going straight into the red zone. It is really only now that I have managed to ease back a little on the power if I need to increase the rating for longer periods.

I know you have had back issues though so watch out. The power going through each stroke is far higher and so increases the risk.

In terms of stroke length, I am 5'10" and row at 1.51 normally. 1.54 if I concentrate, and 1.48 if I have switched off and I am slacking. :lol:
Last edited by JonT on Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Paul Victory »

MaxMacLaren1 wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:43 pm Hi Paul V,

At 6'1" you're an inch or 2 taller than me. What do you class as a "relatively short stroke". I have shorter legs compared to body so not really built for rowing and usually see 1.39 to 1.45 depending on stroke rate and how much I'm thinking about technique.
I'm not sure I'm 6'1" any more - probably 6' at best. I've been told I have a truncated stroke, but I don't know how to measure it. I have trouble straightening my arms fully and I don't tend to lean back at the end of a stroke, so I imagine they are contributory factors.

I remember Mr Plumb was kind enough to have a look at my stroke a few years back and I would welcome any comments he might have in this regard.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Paul Victory »

JonT wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:32 pm
Paul Victory wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:29 pm Thanks for the encouragement. I’ve always struggled to get decent results at low ratings. It’s probably at least partly due to a relatively short stroke.
Paul, you have far more experience than I, but I took some advice from a very experienced ergo and otw rower last year and he persuaded me to slow down my rating massively. I now do the vast majority of my training at 18-20 spm. I took me weeks to get the hang of it, but I wouldn't look back and it has definitely made me a lot stronger and technically far better because one gets so much more time to focus on every part of every stroke. The biggest challenge for me was getting the right balance of timing over the phases of each stroke, and also learning a completely new breathing pattern. What I then struggled with was increasing the rating without going straight into the red zone. It is really only now that I have managed to ease back a little on the power if I need to increase the rating for longer periods.

I know you have had back issues though so watch out. The power going through each stroke is far higher and so increases the risk.

In terms of stroke length, I am 5'10" and row at 1:51 normally. 1:54 if I concentrate, and 1:48 if I have switched off and I am slacking. :lol:
Thanks Jon. I'll try rating down and see how I get on. I presume the anomaly in the last line of your post was deliberate!?
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by JonT »

Paul Victory wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:11 pm I'm not sure I'm 6'1" any more - probably 6' at best. I've been told I have a truncated stroke, but I don't know how to measure it.
It is one of the data fields in ErgData if you use that Paul.

In case of my other post. Anomaly? The last figures were meant to be meters is that what you meant?
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Stan »

Back on the comeback trail today with 2x10 mins. Covered 3818m @ 2:37 pace. Enough to quicken my breath, but not gasping. Just need to build this kind of row up.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Paul Victory »

JonT wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:11 pm
Paul Victory wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:11 pm I'm not sure I'm 6'1" any more - probably 6' at best. I've been told I have a truncated stroke, but I don't know how to measure it.
It is one of the data fields in ErgData if you use that Paul.

In case of my other post. Anomaly? The last figures were meant to be meters is that what you meant?
I thought you were quoting pace per 500m. :lol: #-o
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Paul Victory »

Stan wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:57 pm Back on the comeback trail today with 2x10 mins. Covered 3818m @ 2:37 pace. Enough to quicken my breath, but not gasping. Just need to build this kind of row up.
Well done Stan. It’s really hard getting back into it. I’ve been back erging for about six weeks now and things are improving, but slowly.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by paulgould »

Inspired by all the advice to Paul V re slowing the rating, I have been trying to get my rate down to 20 in an effort to correct my technique.
At the same time I have been creeping the damper up to get to my preferred df levels so that I can build my strength back up.
Today I had a minor breakthrough, managing to complete a 30r20 on a df of 212 - no great speed but the same pace as that from a 30r25 on df 170 from a week ago -2:18/500.

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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by JonT »

paulgould wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:26 pm Inspired by all the advice to Paul V re slowing the rating, I have been trying to get my rate down to 20 in an effort to correct my technique.
At the same time I have been creeping the damper up to get to my preferred df levels so that I can build my strength back up.
Today I had a minor breakthrough, managing to complete a 30r20 on a df of 212 - no great speed but the same pace as that from a 30r25 on df 170 from a week ago -2:18/500.
That's great to hear Paul, and interesting that you have already reached an equivalent pace at a far lower rating - a jump from 25 to 20 spm is a big change! I have been slowing things down massively, but I haven't played with the df at all. There is another discussion on this on the Training forum if you want to join in. I know some people don't watch that forum as much as this one.

I am starting to wonder whether we have too many forums and a bit of "rationalisation" may be in order given the volume of posts is quite low overall.

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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Dogma Dave »

As a rank amateur in this game, dropping my stroke rate to 20 rpm or thereabouts in recent weeks has given a different dimension to my erging. At that rate, there is absolutely nowhere to hide in terms of technique. Even I can see that mine has come on in leaps and bounds. I was inspired by watching James Cracknell achieving his recent marathon record. Blimey, he made it look easy... :shock:
Last edited by Dogma Dave on Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Dogma Dave »

Dogma Dave wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:41 pm As a rank amateur in this game, dropping my stroke rate to 20 rpm or thereabouts in recent weeks has given a different dimension to my erging. At that rate, there is absolutely nowhere to hide in terms of technique. Even I can see that mine has come on in leaps and bounds. I was inspired by watching James Cracknell achieving his recent marathon record. Blimey, he made it look easy... :shock:
103,000m this week, enjoyed every minute, and I had the weekend off :roll:
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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Iain »

Dogma Dave wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:41 pmAs a rank amateur in this game, dropping my stroke rate to 20 rpm or thereabouts in recent weeks has given a different dimension to my erging. At that rate, there is absolutely nowhere to hide in terms of technique. Even I can see that mine has come on in leaps and bounds. I was inspired by watching James Cracknell achieving his recent marathon record. Blimey, he made it look easy... :shock:
Unfortunately there are other errors that creep in like over reaching at the catch and over doing the leanback. Some years ago I was in shot of some filming at Plummy's, I was doing 5k R24 (that month's CTC) and was leaning back so far that the start of my recovery was a sit up. Amusingly you could only see this part of my stroke where I kept going up and down almost vertical!

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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Iain »

Iain wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:30 pm
Dogma Dave wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:41 pmAs a rank amateur in this game, dropping my stroke rate to 20 rpm or thereabouts in recent weeks has given a different dimension to my erging. At that rate, there is absolutely nowhere to hide in terms of technique. Even I can see that mine has come on in leaps and bounds. I was inspired by watching James Cracknell achieving his recent marathon record. Blimey, he made it look easy... :shock:
Unfortunately there are other errors that creep in like over reaching at the catch and over doing the leanback. Some years ago I was in shot of some filming at Plummy's, I was doing 5k R24 (that month's CTC) and was leaning back so far that the start of my recovery was a sit up. Amusingly you could only see this part of my stroke where I kept going up and down almost vertical!

I think it was Matthew Pincent that was the first person on the GB camp to manage >9k for 30'R20 at altitude!

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Re: what training have free spirits been doing today?

Post by Dogma Dave »

Iain wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:30 pm
Dogma Dave wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:41 pmAt that rate, there is absolutely nowhere to hide in terms of technique
Unfortunately there are other errors that creep in...
My self appraisal as a rank amateur takes that well and truly into account Iain, I can assure you... :roll:

I wasn’t for a moment suggesting that rowing at a slower rate automatically improved technique. Clearly not.

Rather that, at slower rates, there is simply more time for me as an uncoached amateur to reflect on whether the different elements of each stroke are being carried out effectively.
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