Training advice please

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alistairkbs
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Training advice please

Post by alistairkbs »

Whilst not exactly a newbie I have become becalmed in terms of weight loss and progress. Training has lost focus in recent weeks.

My main aim remains at present weight loss as I am still v fat. Reality check meant trying on 44" shorts today which just fitted (started at 52" 18/12 ago)
I prefer long sustained stuff and have never been able to sprint.
I am thinking of doing weight loss program for next 3 months and then switching to marathon training for 6 months till April 2007 which I really want to do.
Will this do the job as I still need to get down to 14 st 6 lb to become overweight not obese and 12 st 0 lb to get the fat police off my back.

Any advice really gratefully received. Limited to 4-5 sessions a week.

The C2 has already changed my life , I just want it to change some more!

Alistair
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Thomas W-P
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Post by Thomas W-P »

Hell, you should be giving out the advice looking at those stats.

I would go for very long low power stuff plus less energy intake. ("Eat less, exercise more" as my mum says).

Mind you, where are you getting the stats on "obese" from. I think that they are always a bit odd. I am 6' 3" and when I was rowing (aged 20) I trained 6 days a week flat out and was amazingly fit and slim. I was 14st 12lbs at my lightest, but on the doctors charts still had me as "dangerously overweight". I was tearing up trees!

I am 19st 6lb now (20st 7lb when I joined free spirits) and am losing weight by rowing lots and cutting out lunch. I think I would lose weight faster if instead of racing Gregor all the time I did long long gentle rows (I mean 60 minutes at split of 2:20ish).
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Post by BartMan »

yeah, me to a hugely obese etc, according to Docs charts, but bollocks to them. Get an accurate fat % measure done, and go from there.

Fat loss and rowing, goes hand in hand, but easiest is to put into your body less than you take out, so watch what you eat!!

I dropped from 118kg to a present 100kg, which I have not been at since I was about 14, by stopping the shit eating. Dropped to 110 just by rowing harder and longer, but then the watching what you eat kicked in, and the last 8 came off nicely too.

Next stop sub 100kg for the first time in 20 years!!
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Know where you are coming from

Post by ReducingFB »

Hi Alistair!

For the rest of you, Alistair and I have exchanged messages of encouragement over the last year as we have progressed in a similar manner. I have an advantage being a few inches taller for the same weight, but it seems that once you have lost the mega-excess, you have to start digging into the stuff that has been established for a long time.

I have looked at all sorts of diet methods over the years, and have failed miserably. I think BUPA calls it 'The rhythm method of girth control'. :D

The concentrated all-body exercise of the Concept 2 seems to me an essential pillar of a good weight loss programme - but only one pillar.
Diet control is another - and Thomas everything I have read says that missing meals is a No-No. As far as I understand (as an enthusiastic amateur!) if you don't eat, your body shuts down to adjust. The diet I use is an eat six times a day - yes between meals :twisted: - which keeps the calorie burners going - provided its the right foods.

But the body adjusting brings me to what I think is the main problem - the body's ability to adjust over time to whatever you throw at it. It seems that for Alistair and myself, our bodies have adjusted to the new regime - we need to find a new 'shock' tactic, to begin to move down again. I have upped the long rows and stopped trying to improve short PBs at the moment (I'll let Gregor catch up!), but the effects are slow.

Anyone know any new ways to trick the body into submission !!

Jamie
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Post by redshell »

Hi Guys...Have you checked out the C2 Interactive Programme. You can gives them your stats & how many times a week you want to row & it will give you a programme
http://www.concept2.co.uk/weightloss/

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Re: Know where you are coming from

Post by JanetS »

ReducingFB wrote:Hi Alistair!


But the body adjusting brings me to what I think is the main problem - the body's ability to adjust over time to whatever you throw at it. It seems that for Alistair and myself, our bodies have adjusted to the new regime - we need to find a new 'shock' tactic, to begin to move down again. I have upped the long rows and stopped trying to improve short PBs at the moment (I'll let Gregor catch up!), but the effects are slow.
Hi Jamie

I am v impressed at what everyone in this thread is achieving - inspirational stuff! Re the body adjustment problem - this does happen to many trying to lose weight. One of the factors causing it which doesn't get talked about much is that as you lose weight your body requires less energy to keep it 'ticking over' - so consequently energy intake needs to be dropped further to maintain weight loss (or energy expenditure above base needs to be upped; not necessarily faesible given what people round here are already doing in that line :D )

There are basal metabolic rate calculators online e.g.
http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/
which can help gauge calorie requirements as you lose weight. This one also comes with a way of scaling that up to take into account levels of activity to calculate total energy requirements. To give an idea of the effect - by losing a stone around my current weight my calorie intake requirement per day would drop by just over 100, not a lot, but over time it does make a difference.

These calculators do come with the caveat that they tend to underestimate requirements for the very muscular & overestimate for high % body fat.

The other use for knowing your BMR is that dropping your calorie intake below that level will stimulate your body to take steps to preserve itself - i.e. go into starvation mode - which will tend to slow weight loss.

Hope this helps a bit - ignore it all if it doesn't. Somewhere I have a very useful book on sport's nutrition - but it's in a packing case. Perhaps if I got off the computer & did some more unpacking I'd burn off some more energy as well as unearthing it.....

Cue for me to go.....
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Re: Know where you are coming from

Post by ReducingFB »

JanetS wrote:
These calculators do come with the caveat that they tend to underestimate requirements for the very muscular & overestimate for high % body fat.
This is one of the other aspects of the diet regime given to me by my son - the calculators underestimate for the very muscular - because muscle burns calories faster than body fat.

This is the other area of the regime I have been loathe to try, but think I am going to have to try now. That is, to build muscle. At my age I need to be sensible about this :oops: but we still have my elder son's barbells and dumbells in the garage (do they ever leave home!), and I think I will start doing some exercises for the arms, chest, back and legs (should help the erging as well) to develop muscle.

Anyone else any views ?

Michelle, I'm not ignoring you :D - I think for must of us the weight loss programmes were the staple diet (apologies for the pun) for the early weight loss, but we've all hit this floor that we need to break through, and continuing even with modified programmes doesn't seem to work

RFB
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alistairkbs
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Post by alistairkbs »

Thanks to all

1. I remember that at 13 stone I clearly wasn't thin and was carrying fat so I'm sure the BMI data with me is nit wrong.

2. I agree with RFB that you should not miss meals and I snack on fruit now rather than rubbish. I suppose I could go to a completely no-alcohol diet but I'd struggle.

3. Ive got the diet about right (it has been sustained) and doing the calorie counts using BMR and exercise suggest I should be losing 1-2 lbs a week.

4. I think lots of long slow stuff is the way forward so off now for the 3rd day in a row to do 60-70 mins at UT2 (although Ill be more ceratin of all this with the HR monitor arriving for birthday next week).

5. I think I am going to try a formal C2 wt loss programme as hitherto Ive tended to make it up and getting PB's has been reasonably easy until now. Ive laso tended to accelerate in any long piece which sometimes leaves me overtired so slower should mean more metres overall.

6. Aiming to row similar amounts for 7 days to register a 7 wonders challenge as Ive got the time (off work) and need to bank some meters before a week on a canal boat (though some at work suggested taking the erg and rowing on the roof!)

Thanks again for all the advice

Alistair
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Post by JanetS »

Re: building muscle mass..
It certainly works for inch loss - I'd suggest keeping track of measurements and/or %fat as well as weight to maintain motivation if you try that route. Weight can stay pretty similar, which can be disheartening unless you keep track of the fact that the body is changing a lot for the better!

Good luck!
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Post by Fatt Matt »

Sounds like you've got it sorted! A (hopefully) handy hint - me & the missus took out a subscription to the BBC "Good Food" magazine. It labels all the meals - usual cal/fat/carb breakdown - but also flags some as "healthy", "superhealthy" - which indeed they are, but usually pretty tasty too (though I tend to balk at soup as a main meal - give me MEAT). It gave us a useful, easy source of variety when short on inspiration. And we've lost 5 stone between us since last September! Hooray for the Ergo (and 'Spinning' for the 'er indoors)!

Keep it up, dude.
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Advice Required

Post by mash »

As I've seen in this forum and on the Concept2 forum, rowing at level 10 is a big No-No. Apparently I'm classed as a "Duracel Bunny" in some circles of the rowing fraternity.

Question, this close to BIRC do I look to change my technique taking into account drag factor etc or do I wait until after BIRC and then concentrate on getting my technique correct and split times up using a drag factor of around 140-150.

Bear in mind it is only 17 weeks until BIRC and I'm currently working through the interactive training as provided by Concept2 and I fear (and know) that my split times will plummet when I take the step of changing.

You advice kindly required.

Mash

PS. I'm 5'8" and 110kgs...very short rowing stroke!
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Post by PSims »

Try a couple of different settings - see if you can get used to a 9 setting (I'm assuming you always use the same machine so you will know the DF). It will require more strokes or force to maintain the splits.

Then try a couple with 8 setting etc.

You might find a setting you like better .

Funny though, I cranked it up to DF 160 for my 1/2 marathon this morning (setting 7) and i worked better for me.
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Advice

Post by mash »

Cheers Paul

I may try that on my next 15k row...probably tonight. Would you concur that rowing at a lower level requires greater fitness to achieve the same results?

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alistairkbs
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Post by alistairkbs »

Mash Paul

Ive often wondered about damper factor but have always stuck at 115. It strikes me that as someone who clealry prefers low rate that a higher setting might be appropriate. Ill explore this when I start again after an enforced weeks break and reocver form the 100K.
Damper setting thread ??
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Post by Mike Channin »

I suspect a damper setting thread might be a good idea. Thomas?

mash - depending on the machine you currently use, the biggest problem you might find at BiRC is that some of the race machines won't be able to reach the same level of drag, regardless of damper setting.

Aside: When discussing damper settings, remember it's better to mention the actual drag factor as well, as these can very widely from machine to machine. Also, from my experience, the model C is capable of a higher drag than I've managed to get on any model D I've seen so far. It also depends on how clean the machine is, and how near the wall it is. (And if you want massive drag, fit a C-Breeze!)

I'm also not overly tall at 5'11", so I've always tended to use a higher drag/damper setting on the erg, although I too wonder if I should try and re-learn my technique for lower drag. Still, seems to suit me at the moment, so maybe I'll stay with it for now.

I have a model C here, which has the following drag/damper settings:

Damper 10 - Drag 218
Damper 9 - Drag 204
Damper 8 - Drag 190
Damper 7 - Drag 175

I trained for the Grand Prix Series and BiRC 2004 using drag 9, but actually found most of the model D machines couldn't go above 196. I had the experience of asking the guy to put the damper up to the top at BiRC and him looking at me and going 'are you sure??' I've backed down to using drag 8 now because otherwise I have a problem with the race machines not being able to go high enough. I'd still use D10 at home if I was going for a 500m time though, because I can rate about 3 strokes lower for the same split.

There is a definite point that on-the-water rowing is much more like rowing at drag 3-5 depending on boat weight and gearing, and that if you're a water rower you would be advised to train at this sort of resistance level to avoid a tendency to heave the catch (which apparently is a good way on-the-water coaches can spot regular erg users).

There's also a fair point that the higher the drag, the more force you have to exert to spin up the flywheel, which may lead to injury if your technique is not perfect. But personally I prefer higher drag because it allows me to get more power out of a short stroke.

My advice would be to check your drag values, and make sure you're not training above 190 if you want to be able to use race machines without issue, but other than that, use what suits you best. And if you really want to use much lower drag, switch after BiRC.
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Drag

Post by mash »

Thanks Mike

I have a new model D (one year old in August), very clean and at D10 it shows a drag factor of 210

At 5-6 it gives me a DF of 150.

I'm 5'8" so D10 helps with my (very) short stroke although I've been giving D8 a go for the last few sessions and not found it too much trouble and leaves my arms and back feeling a little less jaded.

I'm interested in your comments regarding the race machines, aren't they brand new model D's. I was going to just go hell for leather on my normal setting of D10. Would you advise against it?

Mash.
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