New toy! (PM5 monitor)

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Recess
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New toy! (PM5 monitor)

Post by Recess »

Got delivery of a PM5 monitor today. Retrofitting to my Model D with a PM3 was really quick and easy. In fact, it took longer to update the firmware than it did to install the monitor.

Really nice having a backlight monitor - it makes a huge difference in the gloom of my garage. I couldn't get the Polar Bluetooth F7 strap to register, but I think that's because the Polar Beat app had it set to gym mode, which is why the monitor wouldn't see it.

Will try again tomorrow.

BTW, this means I've got a spare PM3 monitor now sitting unused in case someone needs one for a spare?

If anyone wants it (I can throw in the log-card and heart-rate pickup cable) make me an offer - it'll save me the hassle of going onto ebay!!

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Re: New toy! (PM5 monitor)

Post by Grobi »

John, congrats to your new toy! :fswink: Are there any advantages with the PM5 other than the backlight? I guess it can be linked to a digital heart rate belt like the PM 4?
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Re: New toy! (PM5 monitor)

Post by dr3do »

Recess wrote:In fact, it took longer to update the firmware than it did to install the monitor.
Same experience here. :mrgreen:
I couldn't get the Polar Bluetooth F7 strap to register, but I think that's because the Polar Beat app had it set to gym mode, which is why the monitor wouldn't see it.
I don't know a Polar Strap F7, only a watch called F7.

The Polar H7 Strap is a dual band strap; it transmits via BLE (Bluetooth Low Energy AKA Bluetooth Smart) and via GymLink ("gym mode", WearLink, 5kHz, analog, under water). Within the Polar App (or Website) you can only disable the transmission via GymLink, but not the BLE part (it's always on).

The PM5 is also dual band device; it listen and connects to BLE and ANT+, but does not support GymLink (like the PM3 did).

One (IMHO) huge drawback of BLE is… it supports only one active connection. Means… you can't connect the H7 strap to your phone/watch and to the PM5 simultaneously.

If you like to see/transmit your heart rate on more than one device simultaneously, like PM5 and your watch and/or phone, you'll need a different solution…

In this case I would recommend the 4iiii Viiiiva ANT+ to Bluetooth Smart Bridge & Heart Rate Strap - which transmits via BLE (e.g. to watch/phone) and ANT+ (e.g. to PM5).

The Scosche RHYTHM+ Dual ANT+/Bluetooth Smart Optical HR Band – which I have bought – I personally can't recommend because for me it does not work accurate enough - way too much up and down by 3-12bpm, which is really annoying.
Will try again tomorrow.
Before you try to pair your chest belt with the PM5, make sure that the belt has no active connection to your phone/watch. Then it will work fine. Once you paired the H7 successfully, you can save/remember this connection within the PM5 for future workouts.
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Re: New toy! (PM5 monitor)

Post by Recess »

Ah, great, thanks for the tip Boris. I did wonder if it was a multi connection issue too. I may have a look at your suggested alternative. Annoyingly, I like to have my HR show on the PM5, so I know how hard my body is working, but I also want to sent it to the Polar Beat app. Maybe that'll do it for me.

Anyway, thanks again - and sorry for the naming mix-up, you're right, H7, not F7.

And Paul, the main reason I got the PM5 was for the backlight in the gloomy garage and the heart-rate. I was getting frustrated with the old polar solution constantly dropping out, so (apart from the issues I've just described above) figured the Bluetooth option would sort me out. I don't tend to play the games etc, so that's not much of an issue. But as they gym I'm now going to has PM5's, it means I no longer have to have a log-card for home and a USB stick for the gym, I can keep one log again.

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Re: New toy! (PM5 monitor)

Post by dr3do »

After upgrading from PM3 to PM5 I unfortunately had to detect that the old "phone kit" (iOS/Android) does not fit any more… otherwise I had recommended to put the phone with Polar Beat into it.

The dual heart rate strap (BLE/ANT+) will be a really nice/clean solution. You can also take the Wahoo TICKR (if you find it for a "better buck"), but won't have the bridge* of the Viiiiva.



* The Wahoo TICKR is new on the scene, while the 4iiii’s has been around a while. The TICKR (regular edition) is a simple dual ANT+/BLE strap. Whereas the 4iiii’s does the same, but can also bridge ANT+ sensors over to supported Bluetooth apps on your phone. So in that respect, the Viiiiva does more cool stuff, but does cost a bit more.
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Re: New toy! (PM5 monitor)

Post by Recess »

The Wahoo certainly looks a lot more comfortable as far as my wallet is concerned. And, if it dual broadcasts - so ANT+ goes to the PM5 and Bluetooth Smart goes to the iPhone app, it does what I need for £30 cheaper.

Unless I'm wrong?

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Re: New toy! (PM5 monitor)

Post by dr3do »

Recess wrote:Unless I'm wrong?
No, perfectly recapped. :fsbgrin:

Sidenote: The advantage of the first one is, if you have some ANT+ sensors (like cadence, temperature, footpod, ...) which you like use too with you phone, but your phone does not support ANT+. If one day you'll have an ANT+ capable watch/phone, the strap will transmit to both, the PM5 and the watch/phone. ;-)
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Re: New toy! (PM5 monitor)

Post by JonT »

When someone has a spare moment can the forum profile editor be updated to include PM5 in the drop down for "I row on..." ?
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Re: New toy! (PM5 monitor)

Post by Recess »

+1 for that.
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Re: New toy! (PM5 monitor)

Post by dr3do »

^O^ Ditto. :fsbgrin:
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Re: New toy! (PM5 monitor)

Post by Rob C »

Being a sucker for new toys, I succumbed and acquired one of these devices. Actually my PM3 had always been a pain getting it to detect the polar chest heart rate monitor thing (I could do 10,000 m and it still wouldn't register despite the puddles of sweat), so this proved the excuse to hopefully be more reliable.

But out of the frying pan and into the fire. Updated the firmware (one of the first things the concept 2 utility software expects you to do), using my USB cable. Now version 17. And that creates all sorts of problems for the USB stick. Essentially the PM5 doesn't like the USB sticks I had available.

There is a lack of specification information on the concept 2 site as to what USB sticks size and formats are required. The only hint is that they must be FAT or FAT32 format, and a vague comment that large capacity couldn't be used. So I tried a newly formatted 1GB and 2GB stick, and even a second card thing I had lying around. Nada. Effectively the PM5 doesn't want to communicate and the error code according to the Concept trooubleshooting suggests there are known issues.

Visit to the shops and I've now got an 8GB USB (the smallest size available). Plugged that in, without any formating and the PM5 decided to play. I await to see if it will recognise it tommorrow.

As for the PM5 itself the backlight display is much clearer than the PM3. It's not that I was in a dark room, just that the backlight increased contrast and when you are bounding around (I have useless technique) anything that aids vision is great. The Garmin chest belt sold by Concept was swiftly detected by the PM5, and apart from a 30 second interval about a minute into a 10,000 row gave good readings (I suspect the break was my overly furriy chest not yet dripping with moisture).

Its a shame that the Concept 2 utility software has no way to migrate the logs from a logcard to a USB stick. It would have been good to at least have my PB / SBs on the new monitor.

So the jury is out. It was a pain to get going because the USB didn't work. But if it now continues to detect the USB it could be good.
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Re: New toy! (PM5 monitor)

Post by dr3do »

Rob C wrote:Its a shame that the Concept 2 utility software has no way to migrate the logs from a logcard to a USB stick. It would have been good to at least have my PB / SBs on the new monitor.
As we upgraded I was missing this option too. I called C2 (Switzerland) and asked if there's a way to transfer the data or if they can do that. Unfortunately not. They even don't have plans - at least in January - for this feature. #-o
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Re: New toy! (PM5 monitor)

Post by Recess »

One thing I've discovered is that if I use my Mac to upload the data from the USB stick to the logbook, the . files that a Mac creates then means the PM5 doesn't like it anymore. Plug into Windows, delete them - and all is good again.

So, that leads me to suggest that you make sure there's nothing else on your USB stick other than the C2 data. Check for hidden files and folder too, in case there's some kind of extra software hidden on the stick.

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Re: New toy! (PM5 monitor)

Post by dr3do »

Recess wrote:One thing I've discovered is that if I use my Mac to upload the data from the USB stick to the logbook, the . files that a Mac creates then means the PM5 doesn't like it anymore. Plug into Windows, delete them - and all is good again.
For Mac users BlueHarvest is a quite interesting tool. :fswink:
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Re: New toy! (PM5 monitor)

Post by JonT »

The USB management on the PM5 clearly isn't quite there yet. The USB that came with the rower has never worked. Concept offered to ship a new one, but for the cost of a replacement it didn't really seem worth it.

But I have learned not to rely on the USB for capturing important rows. Every now and again the USB stick registers with the PM5 but no data is saved to it. This happened to me again only yesterday when my three rows (warm up, row, cool down) were all missing even through I could view the USB log, meaning the PM5 must have known the USB stick was there.

There are also some teething problems with the USB in combination with ErgData. The PM5 crashes if you have a Bluetooth connection to ErgData and a USB in at the same time. Well at least that was the case when I was part of the PM5 Beta test programme. There have been a few firmware releases since then.
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Re: New toy! (PM5 monitor)

Post by Rob C »

hmm, according to my USB stick my lifetime meters is now considerably over 20 million meters. No wonder I'm tired. :wink:

The total should be more like 3 million and something. It seems the PM5 software remains dubious even with the present version 17. You have to be very careful to start up the PM5 with the stick already in, and then wait for the USB to be detected before doing anything. Just starting to row inevitably means the USB stick won't be seen.

The illuminated LED is nice. The heart monitor so far (the Garmin ANT+ chest strap also sold by Concept) is proving far more reliable for connectivity than the PM3's Polar belt ever did, provided the USB stick is first detected (the things link somehow). The Garmin is being detected in the first minute or so but the Polar might not be seen for an entire 10K.

Unfortunately, at present I'd suggest the PM5 is a don't buy until they work out the logging software stuff.
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Re: New toy! (PM5 monitor)

Post by dr3do »

Rob C wrote:It seems the PM5 software remains dubious even with the present version 17. You have to be very careful to start up the PM5 with the stick already in, and then wait for the USB to be detected before doing anything. Just starting to row inevitably means the USB stick won't be seen.
…and be careful with pulling the stick too early. :roll:
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Re: New toy! (PM5 monitor)

Post by dr3do »

Some promising news…

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Re: New toy! (PM5 monitor)

Post by dblinden »

WAIT!!! It's a long story involving issues with my PM5, USB drives and the C2 utility. It would take too long to report all the details, but I will summarize. After my latest issue with the PM5 about two weeks ago, it was recommended that I download the new version of C2 Utility so that it could solve the problem I was having. This was v.6.93 before the official release. When it attempted to "automatically repair" my USB drive, the entire data log was completely corrupted. This prevented any capacity to store new data or upload workouts to the Concept Logbook. All of my history since getting the rower was lost and I was most upset. I worked with the main programmer at C2, Scott Hamilton, who heads the PM5 project. He was terrific in addressing this incident and the team worked for two days learning that there was a programming error in the new version of the C2 utility program that I was the fortunate subject to stumble across. The good news for me was that he was able to recover the corrupted data even though it took the programmers some considerable effort and time. I was most appreciative.
I would recommend waiting a few weeks before downloading just to make sure that all is in good order and no new bugs.

EDIT: Looking at the C2 Support site, the new C2 Utility is listed as v6.94. The version that crashed my data was 6.93. This newer update likely has the correction; just be sure not to download 6.93 as indicated in the previous post. I would still recommend waiting, however.
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Re: New toy! (PM5 monitor)

Post by dr3do »

Thanks for your warning, Dennis. ^O^ =D>

I my case I think it can't become worse. :~c Since we switched from PM3 to PM5 in January this year, it have a lot of trouble with data loss, corrupted files and data loss. Got from C2 (Switzerland) even new sticks and new PM5 as exchange. As data (on stick) gets corrupted for unknown reason, making backups of the stick does not help.

Compared to PM3 I really love the backlit PM5 and the improved wireless (ANT+/Bluetooth Smart) connectivity, but from point of reliability I hate this <censored words> PM5. :twisted:

The last beta (18.4 AFAIR) I have installed seems to work more relialable, than the last non-beta (18.0).
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Re: New toy! (PM5 monitor)

Post by Rob C »

I remain to be convinced about the PM5 USB software. Far too often this has been corrupted. I've taken to doing a backup every time I row. Even so a couple of rows have been lost to electronic hell. A couple of times when it's failed to write to USB (corrupted USB type messages displayed), I've been fortunate to find the workout stored on the PM5 memory. In that case I've been able to use the backup to recreate the USB, then transfer the PM5 memory to USB and then create a new backup. But it's all rather tedious.

I've found that you have to be very very careful with the USB stick. Don't detach the stick if the PM5 is still showing any display. It's as if it could still be writing. Certainly if there is any residual rotation of the fan, don't pull the stick. Also don't end a workout by pressing menu or similar, on the PM5 if there is a chance that, even in a rest interval or end of workout, that there might still be some meters being clocked up as the fan slows down.

USB should have been a good thing. But it's too flaky. I suspect it's because the whole software ad method of storing the rows is completely different to the old log card.

On the plus side the illuminated display is nice (but it goes out too quickly on rest intervals), and the heart monitoring stuff using the Garmin chestband is much more reliable than the PM3's Polar chest band.
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Re: New toy! (PM5 monitor)

Post by dr3do »

I was trying to narrow down the issue with corrupted files on the USB stick. Has anyone of you, who has to deal with corrupted files (USB stick) saved any Intervals as favorites (on the USB stick)?
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Re: New toy! (PM5 monitor)

Post by JonT »

dr3do wrote:I was trying to narrow down the issue with corrupted files on the USB stick. Has anyone of you, who has to deal with corrupted files (USB stick) saved any Intervals as favorites (on the USB stick)?
I've saved intervals as favourites and not had any issues (yet), if that helps.

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Re: New toy! (PM5 monitor)

Post by dr3do »

JonT wrote:I've saved intervals as favourites and not had any issues (yet), if that helps.
Thanks, Jon. ^O^

"Analyzing" three different PM5, with two different users (or use cases), several different USB sticks, only I user always had issues. In this case it's an simple "endless" 20' interval with undefined rest, which has been saved as favorite (on first place). This favorite gets somehow corrupted after a while of using it. But I don't get/see how and why.
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Re: New toy! (PM5 monitor)

Post by JonT »

Anyone know how to delete a rogue record from the USB log? I've suddenly got a 5,000m row appeared dated back at the beginning of April. I don;t remember it but apparently it was a PB at 8:20.0 and I was generating 2,800 Watts. Somehow, I don;t think I'd forget that particular session.

So I need to delete it before it uploads to the Logbook. Any ideas?

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