New toy! (PM5 monitor)

[Grobi]

I have to echo Paul here, this malfunction of the PM5 is extremely annoying! I do hope you get it sorted out quickly!

[CamiCrew]

This thread had quieted down, I was hoping that meant all was fine in PM5 land. [-o< Seriously... sorry to see Boris and RobC had so much trouble, Richard, and to lesser extent JonT. John S on the other hand, seems to have had little difficulty.

I took delivery on my PM5 exactly 2 weeks ago (Feb 12). I like it, overall, but... the issues getting it to talk to RowPro have caused me some grief and I need to figure them out... Here's one I could use advice on.

Last night I set up a custom session in RowPro -- I followed the pattern Greg Smith laid out for his CTC -- but mine was a 4x10" variable interval session, with 3 minute rests set as V. Easy intervals and two more intervals tacked before and after as Warmup and Cooldown. So... 10 intervals total saved as a Custom Row.

I got successfully through the 9th interval (the final 10" piece) -- but at that point neither the PM5 nor RowPro seemed to recognize the final cooldown interval of 7:00. No big deal, I stopped the row and did it separately.

Then I noticed that in the RowPro log - RowPro only picked up 1:54.4 of the 9th (10 min) interval.

The PM5 however, logged the entire thing.

This means my export from RowPro to the LogBook is ~2000 meters shy of what I actually rowed.

There was no error message on the RowPro screen that the 9th interval had stopped recording - my avatar kept rowing. And no error on either, when they were both supposed to transition into the final 10th interval, and didn't. They both just sat there.

Any advice?

-- I have PM5 Firmware Version 20 (current latest)
-- Hardware version 502
-- Concept2 Utility version 6.97
-- RowPro version 4.300 (current latest)
-- I have not tried a USB stick
-- Connection is via standard printer-type cable to a USB 4-port hub
(I switched back to the hub I'd used with the PM3, has been more stable than direct to the PC, which was advised)
-- Still on Windows 7 - not ready for the W10 leap, esp now

[dr3do]

Any advice?

Unfortunately I can't give you any advice about PM5 and RowPro, as I'm not using RowPro (it never worked well for me). But I remember (hopefully crrectly) that Greg & Sander have been using (or are still using?) RowPro a lot. Possibly they know what to do and/or can give you a helping hand.

[CamiCrew]

Thanks Boris-- I am thinking John S, Richard or JonT might have knowledge here. I pay close attention to what Greg & Sander do in RowPro but haven't seen references to PM5.

[gregsmith01748]

My advice....

If you have a PM5 and you are not using rowpro to do online rowing with other people, then stop using rowpro.

I use PM5 with ergdata on my iphone through bluetooth. It also works through bluetooth to android phones.

It works great. You fire it up and then just do everything on the PM5. You set up the session using variable intervals, then when you are done, all of it shows up in the ergdata log screen. You punch the "sync" button and like magic, all of it appears in the online logbook. Even better, you can click the magnifying glass on the row in the log book and get detail about every interval, like this...



If that is not enough for you, you can also export data from the online log in CSV form, and then you can use the extremely cool excel spreadsheet to look at pace and rate and HR in one glorious picture.



I just started doing this this way this week and I am thrilled. There is talk of additional upgrades to the online logbook for things like HR graphs and new ways to summarize training.

By the way, if you want to play with the spreadsheet, you can down load from my blog here:
https://quantifiedrowing.wordpress.com/ ... v-exports/

Sorry to gush, but I'm excited!

[CamiCrew]

Greg, gushing is encouraged.

The way I set up my session last night was entirely due to your posts (ie CTC thread) and I even had my new NK (suunto) HR belt synced and the fancy (previous RowPro) XLS template downloaded and ready to produce a glorious Greg-and-Sander style chart.

Yea, no. My triumph was short lived. Even attempting to import the csv to the template resulted in the macro telling me I had a file mismatch.

Ok -- so it has taken me months to get to this point of failure but dang it I'm going to follow your "look what I did in 30 seconds" advice.

thank you

[sander]

My name is mentioned but I do not own a PM5. May purchase one on my next trip to the States though. Currently on a PM3 (model C) at home with USB cable to either RowPro or the desktop version of Painsled.

[CamiCrew]

Did it -- loaded ErgData.

Tested a 15:00 time piece:
Synced it to the online LogBook. Nice and easy - but No on the stroke graphs - on Android, graphs +interval feature still to come The other issue being that I have to manually confirm my HR belt (ant+) every time, probably because I am NOT using the PM5 USB stick. Apparently if I get up and walk away from the erg after confirming the belt and then come right back, I lose the HR sync (observation trying it once). So, no HR throughout.

Tested a quick interval piece 2x1:00 on, 0:30 rest:
Syncs easily to the online LogBook. This time HR worked and showed on the PM5, ErgData display, and PM5 memory but nowhere in the online entry (pending with graphs/intervals I guess)

Lastly -- confused by what I see for the interval entry online - it gave me a pace of 1:46.9 (wow) when I was testing at well over 2:00 pace. Probably bc it lumped in the rest interval meters (99) but didn't count the rest time. PM memory & Ergdata look ok.

So I'm guessing I'm not yet at a point where I could export a csv from the LogBook to try the template.

Hopefully soon.

[lcantey]

The other issue being that I have to manually confirm my HR belt (ant+) every time, probably because I am NOT using the PM5 USB stick

That is correct. If you have the stick it remembers the paired monitor.

[jhaveman]

Hi Greg,

I'm toying with the idea of being given a PM5 for my upcoming birthday

We're currently using a log card and concept2 utility do upload all our rows (and save them to spreadsheet on our PC), and would probably not be using ergdata for all routine training sessions. So we'd probably still want to store all our sessions on log card (assuming the PM5 has one - otherwise to USB drive) and then upload them at some convenient time.
Do you know how this would work in practice - will an ergdata workout be stored on USB drive as well?
And would ergdata and concept2 utility play together and recognise / ignore each other's uploads so for instance a concept2 utility upload would not overwrite a previous ergdata upload of the same session?

Thanks, Jan

[gregsmith01748]

I don't know. I've never used the log card or usb stick.

[Juergie]

Hi,

had my first bad experience with the PM5 today.

Did 3x 30 min workouts. First was saved on the connected usb stick and transfered to ergdata. After the second one I got an "usb writing error" and the workout was not saved on the PM5, the usb stick or in ergdata. Same procedure with the 3rd workout.

Fortunatelly I memorized the values and could manually enter them in my log.

I remove the stick after I'm done, and the PM5 is connected to a power outlet during my workouts.

I would have expected that at least the workouts would have been transferred to the iphone if there is a usb problem. Hopefully that kind of problem doesn't happen too often.

I'm using a rather old usb stick (1 GB). Could that be the problem and I should by a new one?

[jhaveman]

Thanks Greg, guess there's nothing to stop us from just using ergdata all the time. It's just that we've never used it because you need all kinds of strange cables to hook an iPhone 6 up to the PM3. From Barbara's and Lee's posts though it sounds like I'd still want a USB stick inserted in the PM5 to remember the pairing with our Polar HR belt?

Juergie, sorry to hear about your trouble - I had thought that the initial PM5 issues had gone away with the battery door fix and firmware upgrade? May do some searches in the C2 forums to find out what the current status is.

Jan.

[lcantey]

Do you know how this would work in practice - will an ergdata workout be stored on USB drive as well?
And would ergdata and concept2 utility play together and recognise / ignore each other's uploads so for instance a concept2 utility upload would not overwrite a previous ergdata upload of the same session?

Yes to both questions. The data is also written to the USB (or memory) when using ErgData and the uploader recognizes entries that have already been submitted.

Lee

[lcantey]

had my first bad experience with the PM5 today.

Did 3x 30 min workouts. First was saved on the connected usb stick and transfered to ergdata. After the second one I got an "usb writing error" and the workout was not saved on the PM5, the usb stick or in ergdata. Same procedure with the 3rd workout.

Fortunatelly I memorized the values and could manually enter them in my log.

Definitely check your firmware version if you haven't already.

I remove the stick after I'm done, and the PM5 is connected to a power outlet during my workouts.

I would have expected that at least the workouts would have been transferred to the iphone if there is a usb problem. Hopefully that kind of problem doesn't happen too often.

I use mine the same way. I don't see too many issues but do *occasionally*. I haven't seen data loss with recent versions. Make sure your battery is in very good condition as it seems to really make a difference even when plugged in).

I'm using a rather old usb stick (1 GB). Could that be the problem and I should by a new one?

Quite often it's the opposite. A number of the newer larger capacity sticks require more power when writing and are more apt to cause issues.

Lee

[Juergie]

Hi Lee,

yep, have the latest firmware.

Battery shows 90% 10 hours after my last workout and being disconnected from an outlet since then.

If this behaviour occurs once a month, I could probably live with it. But I've only had the PM5 for 2 weeks. Well, we'll see ...

[jhaveman]

From reading the c2 forum it looks like the pm5 powered on batteries is not able to properly power usb drives. Some people use usb chargers to power the pm5, which improves the situation. It may be best not to use a usb drive at all, but in that case you would not be able to store the heart belt pairing in between sessions?

Jan


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CamiCrew]

Jan that's true. I confirm the belt each time And had to reconfirm when i walked away briefly. An inconvenience -- but better so far than the PM3 + Polar belt pickup (under the rail) I had before. Hr data got totally unreliable with that combo.

[lcantey]

An inconvenience -- but better so far than the PM3 + Polar belt pickup (under the rail) I had before. Hr data got totally unreliable with that combo.

I had the same experience with the Polar belt pickup. Even with the occasional USB issues the PM5 heart rate solution is so superior there is no way I'd go back.

[jhaveman]

Thanks all for the info!
We're using the Polar belt with PM3 and pickup under the rail, and have had only minor issues with that (and it's been reliable recently). There's a concept2 utility upgrade promised which should also give more info from PM3 logs, however I doubt that will allow us to get close to Greg's magic graphs.
Will have to think about the PM5 upgrade.

Jan

[gregsmith01748]

One other note. Apparently there is a beta version of erg data for android that does the magic stroke rate, pace and HR stuff. I'm not sure how you sign up for it, but you can check out the ergdata thread on the c2forum for some hints.

http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=110775

[CamiCrew]

Requested the android beta over the weekend. No reply yet. Someone in this group was testing it... as I recall.

Thanks. Hubby has an iPhone but I decided against stealing it for erg purposes

[Bryce10]

A couple of points to add.

Our PM5 has behaved faultlessly since we stopped inserting memory sticks. The batteries do not seem to drain and there have been no crashes. I am guessing that some if not all memory sticks drain power which the design cannot cope with.

I have come to dislike Rowpro intensely - it uploads to C2 erratically and the internal reporting ( a double click on an individual workout) often misses segments out. Great for people racing against each other but dubious otherwise. I have gone back to Ergdata which is rock solid. I run my own spreadsheet in Excel (sad alert!!) which is complete back to my very first C2 workout on 8th November 2003.

Regards

Richard Underwood

[Bryce10]

And a further point re Barbara (Camicrew) - this is the sort of thing that frustrated me with Rowpro resulting in a need to upload odd segments or workouts manually. Basically you have to watch it like a hawk and exercise the patience of a saint when it freezes or does something peculiar. It is fine for single distances or times or interval workouts without too many reps but in my view the software needs a complete re-write.

Richard U

[jhaveman]

Thanks all for the advice - so the PM5 arrived last Friday and we've been using it the last few days.
On the whole a pretty positive experience, fitting it was easy, and it worked fine in combination with our Polar belt and ergdata on our phones. We're not using USB sticks, just sync with the Concept2 website after each workout - easy.

Couple of small surprises - there didn't seem to be any multi-user management (the writeup did say they recommended a separate USB stick per user, and guess they also assume each user has their own phone ), and didn't find a way to save new workouts as a favourite. No real issues though.

I'm also downloading the CSV files from the Concept2 website and trying to mimic Greg's graphs (using Mac, the Excel sheet doesn't seem to work well with Excel for Mac 2011, don't get a file selector for the data import). I noticed that there is no DPS data, so constructed that myself by taking the total distance increase at each stroke. However there are some strange jumps in the DPS data acquired this way, it looks like every few strokes the PM5 applies some type of correction and the DPS jumps by about 2-2.5 meters for that single stroke (and then goes back to the previous values). Greg - the data in your worksheet does the same thing, do you apply some smoothing or averaging before displaying it?

All in all we're pretty happy so far.

Jan